Works based salvation ??

[Dave M]

Revelation 2:2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.​

Revelation 2:19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.​

Revelation 3:14-1 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works:​

Revelation 3:8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.​

Revelation 3:1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.​

Jesus seems to care so much about our works he makes it the key point to all his people in the Church !! why do some discourage it so much ??

I hear this term (works based salvation ) thrown around a lot with-in Christian communities. It seems to me,, to be a way to discourage anyone from doing what they are created for. And can be very confusing for a baby Christian I am certain !
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

According to the above scripture works is what we are created for, so I wonder why so many discourage it?? I wonder how they discern the heart of a person who is doing a good work??

Work based salvation is not about what you are doing,, as so many seem to claim, its about WHY you are doing what you do !! So how can anyone claim or accuse a person of worked based salvation if they do not know the why behind it??? I have seen this many times in Christian communities.

We know from scripture our work for the kingdom is crucial and important,, as Jesus says in his letter to the churches (we are included in this letter) I know your works.
. The very first thing Jesus states is I know your works, and his whole point of the letters to the churches is to make sure we are doing the work we are made for !! I cant help wonder if Jesus would get accused of works based salvation in today's Christian communities that do not know scripture.

Doing works is evidence of salvation, evidence of God's grace in our lives, we should be excited to do the work God called us to do !!

So how does someone know the heart of a person to accuse anyone of works based salvation? we have no idea of the why behind a persons good works.

 

[Butch5]

Revelation 2:2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.​

Revelation 2:19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.​

Revelation 3:14-1 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works:​

Revelation 3:8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.​

Revelation 3:1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.​

Jesus seems to care so much about our works he makes it the key point to all his people in the Church !! why do some discourage it so much ??

I hear this term (works based salvation ) thrown around a lot with-in Christian communities. It seems to me,, to be a way to discourage anyone from doing what they are created for. And can be very confusing for a baby Christian I am certain !
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

According to the above scripture works is what we are created for, so I wonder why so many discourage it?? I wonder how they discern the heart of a person who is doing a good work??

Work based salvation is not about what you are doing,, as so many seem to claim, its about WHY you are doing what you do !! So how can anyone claim or accuse a person of worked based salvation if they do not know the why behind it??? I have seen this many times in Christian communities.

We know from scripture our work for the kingdom is crucial and important,, as Jesus says in his letter to the churches (we are included in this letter) I know your works.
. The very first thing Jesus states is I know your works, and his whole point of the letters to the churches is to make sure we are doing the work we are made for !! I cant help wonder if Jesus would get accused of works based salvation in today's Christian communities that do not know scripture.

Doing works is evidence of salvation, evidence of God's grace in our lives, we should be excited to do the work God called us to do !!

So how does someone know the heart of a person to accuse anyone of works based salvation? we have no idea of the why behind a persons good works.

It started as an opposition to the Catholic church. Basically, in the 1500's in the Catholic church there were ways to buy loved ones out of purgatory. There were other things also. Martin Luther saw the errors in this and revolted against it. His 95 thesis was basically the start of the Reformation. The problem was, as often happens, Luther went to the opposite extreme. Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all. He then proceeded to use Paul's writings on works out of context to prove his point. His arguments are still around today, and those passages are still used out of context. Fortunately, people are beginning to see the errors in Luther's theology and are turning away from it. However, it is still there.

 

[Sue J Love]

Revelation 2:2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.​

Revelation 2:19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.​

Revelation 3:14-1 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works:​

Revelation 3:8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.​

Revelation 3:1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.​

Jesus seems to care so much about our works he makes it the key point to all his people in the Church !! why do some discourage it so much ??

I hear this term (works based salvation ) thrown around a lot with-in Christian communities. It seems to me,, to be a way to discourage anyone from doing what they are created for. And can be very confusing for a baby Christian I am certain !
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

According to the above scripture works is what we are created for, so I wonder why so many discourage it?? I wonder how they discern the heart of a person who is doing a good work??

Work based salvation is not about what you are doing,, as so many seem to claim, its about WHY you are doing what you do !! So how can anyone claim or accuse a person of worked based salvation if they do not know the why behind it??? I have seen this many times in Christian communities.

We know from scripture our work for the kingdom is crucial and important,, as Jesus says in his letter to the churches (we are included in this letter) I know your works.
. The very first thing Jesus states is I know your works, and his whole point of the letters to the churches is to make sure we are doing the work we are made for !! I cant help wonder if Jesus would get accused of works based salvation in today's Christian communities that do not know scripture.

Doing works is evidence of salvation, evidence of God's grace in our lives, we should be excited to do the work God called us to do !!

So how does someone know the heart of a person to accuse anyone of works based salvation? we have no idea of the why behind a persons good works.

Very well stated, Dave! The problem is that people are taking Scriptures out of context and they are teaching them in ways that they are not taught, if taught in the appropriate context. The Bible does teach that we are not saved by our own good works. We can do nothing in our flesh to earn or to deserve salvation from God. So we don't work to earn our salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), but then we have to read verse 10 which says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Amen! Our salvation requires that we do the works God prepared in advance that we should do, but they are not our own fleshly works, i.e. us trying to be "good enough" to earn God's grace, but they are the result of God's grace and the faith that we have in the Lord Jesus which comes from God, and which is persuaded of God, and which demands that we die with him to sin and that we now walk (in conduct) in obedience to our Lord, by his grace, in his power, of his Spirit, and not of our own doing, not of our own flesh.

 

[Sue J Love]

It started as an opposition to the Catholic church. Basically, in the 1500's in the Catholic church there were ways to buy loved ones out of purgatory. There were other things also. Martin Luther saw the errors in this and revolted against it. His 95 thesis was basically the start of the Reformation. The problem was, as often happens, Luther went to the opposite extreme. Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all. He then proceeded to use Paul's writings on works out of context to prove his point. His arguments are still around today, and those passages are still used out of context. Fortunately, people are beginning to see the errors in Luther's theology and are turning away from it. However, it is still there.

I agree! Sadly, the majority are not turning away from Luther's theology, but the masses are embracing this idea that God requires nothing of us other than some verbal profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. And that is why we are being bombarded with these rebukes calling us those who are teaching "works based salvation." And you are right, it is because they are teaching the Scriptures out of context, and they are misinterpreting Paul's teachings, for he stressed the importance of works (of God) and of obedience to our Lord and the forsaking of our sins as required by God for us to have salvation from sin and eternal life with God. For Paul taught that we will be judged of God according to our works, and this is what will determine who has or has not eternal life with God.

[Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14,24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 1 Co 10:1-22; 1 Co 15:1-2; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Php 2:5-11: Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-17; Tit 2:11-14; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Heb 9:28; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2]

 

[Butch5]

I agree! Sadly, the majority are not turning away from Luther's theology, but the masses are embracing this idea that God requires nothing of us other than some verbal profession of faith in the Lord Jesus. And that is why we are being bombarded with these rebukes calling us those who are teaching "works based salvation." And you are right, it is because they are teaching the Scriptures out of context, and they are misinterpreting Paul's teachings, for he stressed the importance of works (of God) and of obedience to our Lord and the forsaking of our sins as required by God for us to have salvation from sin and eternal life with God. For Paul taught that we will be judged of God according to our works, and this is what will determine who has or has not eternal life with God.

[Rom 1:18-32; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14,24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 1 Co 10:1-22; 1 Co 15:1-2; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; 2 Tim 1:8-9; Gal 5:16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Php 2:5-11: Col 1:21-23; Col 3:5-17; Tit 2:11-14; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Heb 9:28; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2]

Hi Sue!

I believe people are beginning to turn from Luther's teachings. However, it is a slow process. For instance, John Calvin taught double predestination. He was adamant about it. Today you would be hard pressed to find a Calvinist preaching or teaching double predestination. Many find the doctrine repugnant. So, it is a slow turning, but I believe it is turning.

The whole "works salvation" is a straw man that Calvinists created to use against those who disagree with them. They don't really have any good arguments for their doctrine so what they do is distract from the subject at hand. When they say someone has a "works salvation" it's a boogie man that they throw on the opponent to redirect the conversation. What they're doing is trying to get the other person on the defensive. The typical response from the other person is, "I'm not preaching works salvation." Then they say, "yes you are." At this point they have gone from defending their doctrine to making the other person defend theirs. It's a distraction tactic. There is nothing wrong with having a salvation of works. God requires works.

The "no works" theology comes from taking Paul out of context. When Paul speaks of not being saved by works, he is speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law. He's telling his readers that keeping the Mosaic Law won't save them.

 

[Sue J Love]

Hi Sue!

I believe people are beginning to turn from Luther's teachings. However, it is a slow process. For instance, John Calvin taught double predestination. He was adamant about it. Today you would be hard pressed to find a Calvinist preaching or teaching double predestination. Many find the doctrine repugnant. So, it is a slow turning, but I believe it is turning.

The whole "works salvation" is a straw man that Calvinists created to use against those who disagree with them. They don't really have any good arguments for their doctrine so what they do is distract from the subject at hand. When they say someone has a "works salvation" it's a boogie man that they throw on the opponent to redirect the conversation. What they're doing is trying to get the other person on the defensive. The typical response from the other person is, "I'm not preaching works salvation." Then they say, "yes you are." At this point they have gone from defending their doctrine to making the other person defend theirs. It's a distraction tactic. There is nothing wrong with having a salvation of works. God requires works.

The "no works" theology comes from taking Paul out of context. When Paul speaks of not being saved by works, he is speaking of the works of the Mosaic Law. He's telling his readers that keeping the Mosaic Law won't save them.

Butch, I agree, mostly. I don't understand "double predestination" but I know that I do not adhere to Calvinism nor to the theology of the reformed, although I do find some of their teaching very biblical, but not all of it. I think you might be right about some of the reasoning for why people use the "works salvation" tag against those of us who are teaching the gospel taught by Paul and by Jesus and by the other New Testament apostles (in the proper context). But in my many years of experience in teaching the word, and of sharing my devotions and bible study times on the internet, it has taught me that the "works based salvation" tactic is of the devil who wants people to believe that God requires nothing of them other than a one-time profession of faith in Jesus - no repentance, no turning from sin, no obedience to God. But the devil and his messengers are not content with just teaching a diluted and altered gospel free from God's requirements of death to sin and of walks of obedience to his commands, but he has to try to discredit the Lord's messengers so that the people he is trying to deceive will reject the truth in favor of the lies. Same ploy has been working in the world, too, where the people are not only convinced that the lies are the truth, but that if anyone tries to speak the truth of what they know, they are tagged as "conspiracy theorists." And I am not claiming that everyone tagged as such is speaking the absolute truth, but that it is a ploy of the devil, not only to spread his lies disguised as truth, but to refute the truth with his lies so that the people will believe the lies and not the truth.

 

[HIsLightShines]

I don't think it's right to reject that holy living is demanded of all Christians, and if that's "works based salvation" so be it. If we aren't striving to do the will of God, how could we be saved? And yet, I recognize I am a sinner, and in need of salvation...I understand I mean well, but it is Jesus and the Spirit that must do the things he'd have me do...because I myself am clueless, weak, and silly, if I remain by myself. But when HE comes, it is no longer about works or no works. It is about something and someone much greater.

 

[Butch5]

Butch, I agree, mostly. I don't understand "double predestination" but I know that I do not adhere to Calvinism nor to the theology of the reformed, although I do find some of their teaching very biblical, but not all of it. I think you might be right about some of the reasoning for why people use the "works salvation" tag against those of us who are teaching the gospel taught by Paul and by Jesus and by the other New Testament apostles (in the proper context). But in my many years of experience in teaching the word, and of sharing my devotions and bible study times on the internet, it has taught me that the "works based salvation" tactic is of the devil who wants people to believe that God requires nothing of them other than a one-time profession of faith in Jesus - no repentance, no turning from sin, no obedience to God. But the devil and his messengers are not content with just teaching a diluted and altered gospel free from God's requirements of death to sin and of walks of obedience to his commands, but he has to try to discredit the Lord's messengers so that the people he is trying to deceive will reject the truth in favor of the lies. Same ploy has been working in the world, too, where the people are not only convinced that the lies are the truth, but that if anyone tries to speak the truth of what they know, they are tagged as "conspiracy theorists." And I am not claiming that everyone tagged as such is speaking the absolute truth, but that it is a ploy of the devil, not only to spread his lies disguised as truth, but to refute the truth with his lies so that the people will believe the lies and not the truth.

I agree.

 

[Dylan569]

It started as an opposition to the Catholic church. Basically, in the 1500's in the Catholic church there were ways to buy loved ones out of purgatory. There were other things also. Martin Luther saw the errors in this and revolted against it. His 95 thesis was basically the start of the Reformation. The problem was, as often happens, Luther went to the opposite extreme. Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all. He then proceeded to use Paul's writings on works out of context to prove his point. His arguments are still around today, and those passages are still used out of context. Fortunately, people are beginning to see the errors in Luther's theology and are turning away from it. However, it is still there.

Butch, before making ignorant claims about the teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin; read their writings and speak honestly. Example, Martin Luther's Commentary is available online.

Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians

www.gutenberg.org

Do a "Find on Page" for the word "works" in that commentary and it shows the word appears 226 times. Here are just a few selections that contradict your claims -

"So do the papists. They admit that faith is the foundation of salvation. But they add the conditional clause that faith can save only when it is furnished with good works. This is wrong. The true Gospel declares that good works are the embellishment of faith, but that faith itself is the gift and work of God in our hearts. Faith is able to justify, because it apprehends Christ, the Redeemer." Gal. 2:4,5

After we have taught faith in Christ, we teach good works. "Since you have found Christ by faith," we say, "begin now to work and do well. Love God and your neighbor. Call upon God, give thanks unto Him, praise Him, confess Him. These are good works. Let them flow from a cheerful heart, because you have remission of sin in Christ." Gal. 2:16

The true way of becoming a Christian is to be justified by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the works of the Law.
We know that we must also teach good works, but they must be taught in their proper turn, when the discussion is concerning works and not the article of justification.
Here the question arises by what means are we justified? We answer with Paul, "By faith only in Christ are we pronounced righteous, and not by works." Not that we reject good works. Far from it. But we will not allow ourselves to be removed from the anchorage of our salvation.
The Law is a good thing. But when the discussion is about justification, then is no time to drag in the Law. When we discuss justification we ought to speak of Christ and the benefits He has brought us. Gal. 2:16

However, there are others who are not malicious, only weak, who may take offense when told that Law and good works are unnecessary for salvation. These must be instructed as to why good works do not justify, and from what motives good works must be done. Good works are not the cause, but the fruit of righteousness. When we have become righteous, then first are we able and willing to do good. The tree makes the apple; the apple does not make the tree. Gal. 2:20

Now come all kinds of admonitions and precepts. It was the custom of the apostles that after they had taught faith and instructed the conscience they followed it up with admonitions unto good works, that the believers might manifest the duties of love toward each other. In order to avoid the appearance as if Christianity militated against good works or opposed civil government, the Apostle also urges us to give ourselves unto good works, to lead an honest life, and to keep faith and love with one another. This will give the lie to the accusations of the world that we Christians are the enemies of decency and of public peace. The fact is we Christians know better what constitutes a truly good work than all the philosophers and legislators of the world because we link believing with doing. Gal. 5:12

It is not an easy matter to teach faith without works, and still to require works. Unless the ministers of Christ are wise in handling the mysteries of God and rightly divide the word, faith and good works may easily be confused. Both the doctrine of faith and the doctrine of good works must be diligently taught, and yet in such a way that both the doctrines stay within their God-given sphere. If we only teach works, as our opponents do, we shall lose the faith. If we only teach faith people will come to think that good works are superfluous. Gal. 5:15

The Apostle does not speak of the works of the Spirit as he spoke of the works of the flesh, but he attaches to these Christian virtues a better name. He calls them the fruits of the Spirit. Gal 5:22,23

 

[Butch5]

Butch, before making ignorant claims about the teachings of Martin Luther and John Calvin; read their writings and speak honestly. Example, Martin Luther's Commentary is available online.

Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians

www.gutenberg.org

Do a "Find on Page" for the word "works" in that commentary and it shows the word appears 226 times. Here are just a few selections that contradict your claims -

"So do the papists. They admit that faith is the foundation of salvation. But they add the conditional clause that faith can save only when it is furnished with good works. This is wrong. The true Gospel declares that good works are the embellishment of faith, but that faith itself is the gift and work of God in our hearts. Faith is able to justify, because it apprehends Christ, the Redeemer." Gal. 2:4,5

After we have taught faith in Christ, we teach good works. "Since you have found Christ by faith," we say, "begin now to work and do well. Love God and your neighbor. Call upon God, give thanks unto Him, praise Him, confess Him. These are good works. Let them flow from a cheerful heart, because you have remission of sin in Christ." Gal. 2:16

The true way of becoming a Christian is to be justified by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the works of the Law.
We know that we must also teach good works, but they must be taught in their proper turn, when the discussion is concerning works and not the article of justification.
Here the question arises by what means are we justified? We answer with Paul, "By faith only in Christ are we pronounced righteous, and not by works." Not that we reject good works. Far from it. But we will not allow ourselves to be removed from the anchorage of our salvation.
The Law is a good thing. But when the discussion is about justification, then is no time to drag in the Law. When we discuss justification we ought to speak of Christ and the benefits He has brought us. Gal. 2:16

However, there are others who are not malicious, only weak, who may take offense when told that Law and good works are unnecessary for salvation. These must be instructed as to why good works do not justify, and from what motives good works must be done. Good works are not the cause, but the fruit of righteousness. When we have become righteous, then first are we able and willing to do good. The tree makes the apple; the apple does not make the tree. Gal. 2:20

Now come all kinds of admonitions and precepts. It was the custom of the apostles that after they had taught faith and instructed the conscience they followed it up with admonitions unto good works, that the believers might manifest the duties of love toward each other. In order to avoid the appearance as if Christianity militated against good works or opposed civil government, the Apostle also urges us to give ourselves unto good works, to lead an honest life, and to keep faith and love with one another. This will give the lie to the accusations of the world that we Christians are the enemies of decency and of public peace. The fact is we Christians know better what constitutes a truly good work than all the philosophers and legislators of the world because we link believing with doing. Gal. 5:12

It is not an easy matter to teach faith without works, and still to require works. Unless the ministers of Christ are wise in handling the mysteries of God and rightly divide the word, faith and good works may easily be confused. Both the doctrine of faith and the doctrine of good works must be diligently taught, and yet in such a way that both the doctrines stay within their God-given sphere. If we only teach works, as our opponents do, we shall lose the faith. If we only teach faith people will come to think that good works are superfluous. Gal. 5:15

The Apostle does not speak of the works of the Spirit as he spoke of the works of the flesh, but he attaches to these Christian virtues a better name. He calls them the fruits of the Spirit. Gal 5:22,23

What claim did I make that was ignorant?

 

[Dylan569]

What claim did I make that was ignorant?

Martin Luther saw the errors in this and revolted against it. His 95 thesis was basically the start of the Reformation. The problem was, as often happens, Luther went to the opposite extreme. Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all. He then proceeded to use Paul's writings on works out of context to prove his point. His arguments are still around today, and those passages are still used out of context. Fortunately, people are beginning to see the errors in Luther's theology and are turning away from it.

 

[Butch5]

Martin Luther saw the errors in this and revolted against it. His 95 thesis was basically the start of the Reformation. The problem was, as often happens, Luther went to the opposite extreme. Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all. He then proceeded to use Paul's writings on works out of context to prove his point. His arguments are still around today, and those passages are still used out of context. Fortunately, people are beginning to see the errors in Luther's theology and are turning away from it.

You might want to read more closely before calling me ignorant. Notice, I said, "Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all." My statement says that Luther said no work were necessary to enter the Kingdom, i.e. get saved. Luther absolutely preached that one was saved apart from works. He is the one who championed, faith alone. So, my comments were accurate and not ignorant.

 

[Garee]

I would offer.

Salvation is a righteousness of works "hear and obey' Not hear and do not obey. . . or taste but not see.

Psalm 34:8 O taste and see that the Lord is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Hebrew 6:4-6For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The believers work. . tasting and seeing, Like Philippians 2:13 God working in dying mankind to both give them ears to hear his will, taste and empower to do it as it is written to the good pleasure of the Father

The unseen food (daily bread)the disciples knew not of in John Again food to both hear the will and empower to do

The dynamic dual. The Holy Father and Son team.

Hebrew 6:-10 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that "accompany" salvation, though we thus speak.For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

 

[Dylan569]

Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” (Joh 6:29 NRSVue) *Belief is called a "work" by Jesus

Then what becomes of boasting? It is excluded. Through what kind of law? That of works? No, rather through the law of faith. (Rom 3:27 NRSVue) *Paul spoke of the "law of faith".

and anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15 NRSVue) *Not everyone without exception is going to heaven

IF God loved every person who's existed without exception, and IF Jesus Christ redeemed every one of those persons without exception, why were some said in Rev. 20:15 to be lost, thrown into the lake of fire?

The answer given by overwhelming voices of evangelicals today is, the saved had faith and the lost did not have faith. Therefore, it must be that it was not the love of God and the death of Christ that saved them, for that was done for ALL without exception, it was the WORK of faith that actually saved those going to heaven, according to that unbiblical scheme. It was a person's meriting salvation by believing in that erroneous approach.

 

[Dylan569]

You might want to read more closely before calling me ignorant. Notice, I said, "Instead of being able to buy your way into the Kingdom he claimed that no works were necessary at all." My statement says that Luther said no work were necessary to enter the Kingdom, i.e. get saved. Luther absolutely preached that one was saved apart from works. He is the one who championed, faith alone. So, my comments were accurate and not ignorant.

You apparently do not know the difference between 'justification' and 'sanctification'! The quotes I gave from Martin Luther were quite clear.

 

[Brother Paul]

Revelation 2:2 “‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.​

Revelation 2:19 “‘I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first.​

Revelation 3:14-1 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation. “‘I know your works:​

Revelation 3:8 “‘I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name.​

Revelation 3:1 “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. “‘I know your works. You have the reputation of being alive, but you are dead.​

Jesus seems to care so much about our works he makes it the key point to all his people in the Church !! why do some discourage it so much ??

I hear this term (works based salvation ) thrown around a lot with-in Christian communities. It seems to me,, to be a way to discourage anyone from doing what they are created for. And can be very confusing for a baby Christian I am certain !
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

According to the above scripture works is what we are created for, so I wonder why so many discourage it?? I wonder how they discern the heart of a person who is doing a good work??

Work based salvation is not about what you are doing,, as so many seem to claim, its about WHY you are doing what you do !! So how can anyone claim or accuse a person of worked based salvation if they do not know the why behind it??? I have seen this many times in Christian communities.

We know from scripture our work for the kingdom is crucial and important,, as Jesus says in his letter to the churches (we are included in this letter) I know your works.
. The very first thing Jesus states is I know your works, and his whole point of the letters to the churches is to make sure we are doing the work we are made for !! I cant help wonder if Jesus would get accused of works based salvation in today's Christian communities that do not know scripture.

Doing works is evidence of salvation, evidence of God's grace in our lives, we should be excited to do the work God called us to do !!

So how does someone know the heart of a person to accuse anyone of works based salvation? we have no idea of the why behind a persons good works.

These works do not save, but the saved do these works!

 

[th1bill]

Jesus seems to care so much about our works he makes it the key point to all his people in the Church !! why do some discourage it so much ??

Works are not discouraged but sought after in most of the Church today. The problem I see is the lack of genuine faith and the desire to serve our Christ. Many Pastors have convoluted the Gospel to get folks to tithe and work, and it is a shame.

 

[Bill]

I have taught it here for years that it is not our works or the things that we do on our own but it is Christ working through us. Has we read in the Judgment of the king. He stays to the virtuous come with me. They ask the Lord when did we see you when you were naked when did we see you when you were sick when did we see you when you were hungry when did we see you when you were thirsty. And the Kings response was when you did it for the least of these you did it for me

 

[Dave M]

Works are not discouraged but sought after in most of the Church today.

I am not so sure I agree, reason being is the way they teach grace, that it is almost like you better do nothing just believe.

 

[th1bill]

I am not so sure I agree, reason being is the way they teach grace, that it is almost like you better do nothing just believe.

Dave, if you are seated under a Biblical Teacher who is a Yehovah Called Pastor he drives his portion of the Flock to be Ministers of the Gospel performing in one or more of the multitude of flavors the Church Family is called to perform by following Jesus. I agree that there is an overabundance of false teachers in the Pulpits on Sunday mornings. If that is the case and the teacher in any church building is not encouraging the flock to minister the folks there need to take Church Government into their hands or find a Scriptural Teacher/Paster in another location.