StewardoftheMystery
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Again, that just means He is the God of both Jews and Gentiles= “all men”
A few shall be left
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Samson2020
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And what man on the face of the earth is not either a Jew or a gentile?
Samson2020
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Only one question. Why would Paul delineate a difference in the ones who believe now, and the ALL mens Saviour? As the believers at that time consisted of both Jews and Gentiles
according to the flesh, just as they do now.
And to revisit the verse Paul says that GOD is the Saviour of ALL men, not the God of ALL men, even though that is also true.
StewardoftheMystery
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You need to keep in mind the time Paul was preaching. Before Paul God was mainly known as a God of the Jews. Jesus came seeking the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and to bring in a New Covenant.
God foretold by the prophets that “all flesh”= “all men” would see His Salvation. So after Jesus’ resurrection Jesus sent them out to preach the gospel to “all nations” of people or “all flesh”
Notice the words “all flesh” here…..
Luke 3:6
And “all flesh”shall see the salvation of God.
Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon “all flesh”: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall seevisions, and your old men shall dream dreams”
This did not mean that God poured out His Spirit on “every man” but it means now “all peoples” of the Gentile nations can now receive the gift of the Spirit by faith.
Samson2020
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I'm sure you meant to say that it does not mean God poured out His Spirit on ALL men. However, He will eventually as you have noted "all flesh shall see the salvation of God", and
"I will pour out my Spirit on ALL flesh." The second half of your post says the truth that all men including the Gentiles can receive the gift of the Spirit but it is still according to Gods
timing as to when each man will receive it. And eventually all do as God is the SAVIOUR of ALL MEN. And this verse would be a lie unless ALL were already saved, but it doesn't necessarily
mean that all know it at this moment. Thus "specially those that believe"
We give ourselves too much credit in the salvation process, when we deserve none, not understanding it is God that works all things according to the counsel of His own will, which
includes when each soul is born, born again, dies, is black or white or brown in the flesh, is born into condemnation as all are etc.... He is in complete and total control of everything
and will finish what He started to our benefit and His glory.
StewardoftheMystery
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You must have quoted me right after I posted because I caught that error in seconds and changed it as you see in my post above. But yes, it does “not” mean God will pour out His Spirit on “every person” in the world. You are trying to force your beliefs into the text. God’s words do not contradict.
If you read that verse in Acts Peter tells those who are of “all nations and tongues” that this was the “fulfilling “of the prophecy in Joel.
Notice…..
Acts 2:1-18
King James Version
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of “every nation “under heaven.
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in “his own language”.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;( prophecy fulfilled in next verse)
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
So “all flesh” just means salvation is now offered to all peoples, nations, and tongues by faith in Jesus Christ.
Samson2020
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And how does one obtain the faith necessary to believe? And did you not quote JTB as saying that "ALL flesh shall SEE the Salvation of God" and that God said He would pour
out His Spirit on ALL flesh? These quotes do not sound like offers to me, they sound like prophecy.
I like your use of the word OFFERED as it exposes your understanding of salvation as if it were something that you could do on your own.
I have shown where salvation is according to God giving the faith necessary to believe and in the giving God is justifying the one who believes in Jesus Rom 3:26
a very good explanation chapter concerning Gods righteousness, and being freely justified by His grace.
Gods righteousness is one of the first 2 things Jesus taught us to seek/understand and once we do all the rest will be added unto us!
StewardoftheMystery
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God’s words do not contradict, so not “all mankind” is going to be saved.
Psalm 9:5
Thou hast rebuked the heathen, thou hast destroyed the wicked, thou hast put out their name for ever and ever.
Psalm 37:28
For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
Psalm 92:7
When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:
StewardoftheMystery
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An offering is offered, just as Jesus was made an offering for our sins. A free gift is also offered, but not everyone would receive Him .
John 1:11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
So the offering can be rejected, and many do to their own Destruction.
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Here is an example of the free gift being offered to whomsoever will come and receive it.
Matthew 22:1-14
22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Notice all were offered the free gift, and “ many” were called, but only a “few” are “chosen”= the few elect
Matthew 22:1-14
King James Version
22 And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.”
Notice all were offered the free gift, and “ many” were called, but only a “few” are “chosen”= the few elect
StewardoftheMystery
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Now the false doctrine of Universalism would have you believe, all are called and “all” are saved.
But we know that is not what the Word of God says to be true.
But we know that is not what the Word of God says to be true.
Greetings @Samson2020
can i ask,
I know this is 'hypothetical' but... if Noah had built an ark big enough for all men back in his days, do you think all men would have boarded it, even though it was available?
Bless you ....><>
can i ask,
I know this is 'hypothetical' but... if Noah had built an ark big enough for all men back in his days, do you think all men would have boarded it, even though it was available?
Bless you ....><>
Samson2020
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No, at least not until the rain started.
Samson2020
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The thing is most, and I would assume you as well, believe their is an open invitation to salvation, all YOU HAVE TO DO it ask. However, that is NOT the case. It is and always will be according
to the Fathers timing as to when He draws each man unto the Son and gives them the faith necessary to believe. " And I, If I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me."
A prime example of ultimate control is found in Romans 9:18-19 "Therefore He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardeneth.
Thou wilt say then unto me, why doth He yet find fault, FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL?
There is no you chose me in regard to when one comes to Jesus! Just because a preacher makes an invite to ask Jesus into your heart does not mean that is Gods timing for them. I know
personally as I did it at least 3 times as a younger man and nothing changed, but when it was His timing for me it had nothing to do whatsoever with another man or woman as it was
between He and I alone in a truck driving down the highway when the baptism of the Holy Ghost was given. Lucky I didn't wreck that evening.
And one of the first things that He had me do was pray for someone else. And when I asked for what did he need prayer? He answered with "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy
you know this." It was a healing. But it only reiterates the fact that God is in control of everything including salvation.
Now if everyone at this present time were to come to Jesus there would be no one left to sin against you, thus you could not become more like your heavenly Father. This is the reason
the majority are not called at this time. Their time will come later, according to His timing.
Jesus had absolutely no one except the Father that understood Him and we have only a few in the world that understand us, and both are by design. In lonliness, betrayal, sacrifice, and
suffering will we become sons of the living God. And this is the cross for each of us. Hard to be lonely when everybody else is with you, hard to be betrayed unless someone is left to
do the betraying, can't sacrifice yourself, and no one causes themselves to suffer.
We could look at another example of control in Hebrews 12:6 For whom the LORD loveth He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives.7-If ye endure chastening God dealeth
with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten?
Do we chasten ourselves? Or is it up to Him as to when and where and how this occurs, not to mention when is it over? When we've had enough, or when He says so?
I am only trying to show the fact that our Father never relenquished control over anything and that He will do exactly what He set out to do before making the world. It never was
nor is up to us.
PS in your "HYPOTHETICAL" question, do you think that since there were only 2 of each animal on the ark that were spared, that ALL men would have fit anyway? And what would the
arks purpose have been if ALL had got on board?
This too was similar to the raising of Pharoaoh whom God raised up in order to show His power in all the earth. Romans 9:17
If a human knew what he was being born into (condemnation) would they ever agree to being born?
Speaking of power lets take a quick look at the earth that God made.
inner core made of solid iron-nickle about 760 miles wide or spherical, then another 750 mile layer of molten iron-nickle, similar to a golf ball inside a tennis ball for visual. Then the mantle
and finally the crust.
The inner core of the earth rotates to the east, the earth however rotates to the west creating the earths electro magnetic field that protects it from the suns solar winds, otherwise it would
be Mars already. Dead!
Who is capable of doing this except our Father? And how could such a powerful God delight in the eternal torture of His made creatures (humans) forever and ever?
If He can create the Earth and all its ways He surely can save the ants(US) that inhabit the surface of it. And Indeed He already has through Jesus!
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God Bless
StewardoftheMystery
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And now the whole Truth…..
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:”
God can do and choose whomsoever He will, but one thing God cannot do is lie.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Romans 9:8-27
King James Version
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.
10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)
12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:”
God can do and choose whomsoever He will, but one thing God cannot do is lie.
Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Samson2020
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Exactly, it ain't up to you! And
Romans 11:30 For ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31- Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they may also obtain mercy.
32- For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief that He might have mercy upon ALL.
Either Jesus paid the price for the entire sin of the world or he didn't. If He did then all are justified in Gods eyes. If not then just some according to election and the rest are excluded
due to a work or works of sin!
But Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offense of one (Adam) judgement came upon ALL men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the FREE GIFT came upon
ALL men unto justification of life."
Condemnation by Adam
Free Gift unto justification of life by Jesus.
Both men made or born outside of a carnal mind that would separate them from God. Adam obviously was not until the condemnation came, it should be clear that since
God was the Father of Jesus that He too was born outside the carnal mind as the father of the child passes the carnal mind to the child and as God is not at odds with
himself He does not have a carnal mind and neither did His Son until Gethsemane.
This is why Jesus is referred to as the last Adam 1 Co 15:45
Each of them did what they did outside the carnal mind. Adam sin-condemnation, Jesus righteousness unto free gift upon ALL unto justification of life.
We had nothing to do with either the condemnation nor the free gift as these are the decrees of God because of what each of them did.
I would add that you probably never would believe you were under condemnation whilst in the world, but you were because you were born that way. Just because you do not believe it,
doesn't make it so.
Equally with the free gift coming upon ALL men unto justification of life. Just because you do not believe it doesn't make it so. And the scripture clearly states that the FREE GIFT came
upon ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE.
Only real question is, in what dispensation of time will they be made aware of that fact? "Every man in his own order"
StewardoftheMystery
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Every false doctrine I have ever come across have had “partial truths” in them, select verses that might “seem” to prove a point.
But they also have to ignore, or try to explain away many verses that show their doctrine to be false. All the verses on eternal damnation and destruction I have quoted cannot be explained away.
One verse of scripture does not cancel out another verse of scripture, as God’s words do not contradict.
You have to look at “every word”of God in order to rightly divide the Truth. And if you have the Spirit of Truth in you, then He will guide you into all Truth.
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by “every word” that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Peace and God bless
But they also have to ignore, or try to explain away many verses that show their doctrine to be false. All the verses on eternal damnation and destruction I have quoted cannot be explained away.
One verse of scripture does not cancel out another verse of scripture, as God’s words do not contradict.
You have to look at “every word”of God in order to rightly divide the Truth. And if you have the Spirit of Truth in you, then He will guide you into all Truth.
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by “every word” that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Peace and God bless
AnneOminous
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Wow! I've noticed the same! People have beliefs. They do all they can do to support those beliefs. The most arrogant ones refuse to acknowledge the very thing you are talking about above.
