America in the Bible

Eric E Stahl · Mar 29, 2014

NoHype · Mar 30, 2014

That's what man's theory of a pre-trib secret rapture does, confuse and misuse Scripture in God's Word because the doctrine itself is not supported in God's Word.

Radical Islam believes America is Satan and Babylon. Makes you wonder who the pre-tribbers are listening to doesn't it?

Like my Lord Jesus showed in Matt.24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Rev.16:15, Rev.11, and Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15, Christ comes only one time to gather His Church, and it's on the Day of The LORD, the very last day of this present world. That means after the "great tribulation" He taught in Matt.24 and Mark 13. It means at that point of His coming on the "last trump" this present world will be over. Does that mean the battle of Armageddon too? Yes, for that happens on the last day of this world too per Rev.16, which is what the pouring out of the 7th Vial into air signifies. None of us are going anywhere until that Day of The Lord like Apostles Paul and Peter showed (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10).

Eric E Stahl · Mar 30, 2014

NoHype said:
That's what man's theory of a pre-trib secret rapture does, confuse and misuse Scripture in God's Word because the doctrine itself is not supported in God's Word.

Radical Islam believes America is Satan and Babylon. Makes you wonder who the pre-tribbers are listening to doesn't it?

Like my Lord Jesus showed in Matt.24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Rev.16:15, Rev.11, and Apostle Paul in 1 Cor.15, Christ comes only one time to gather His Church, and it's on the Day of The LORD, the very last day of this present world. That means after the "great tribulation" He taught in Matt.24 and Mark 13. It means at that point of His coming on the "last trump" this present world will be over. Does that mean the battle of Armageddon too? Yes, for that happens on the last day of this world too per Rev.16, which is what the pouring out of the 7th Vial into air signifies. None of us are going anywhere until that Day of The Lord like Apostles Paul and Peter showed (1 Thess.5; 2 Pet.3:10).

nohype,

<style>  </style> God will send a permanent solar eclipse before Armageddon to judge the antichrist kingdom. It will cause a 200 mile shadow on Israel and darkness on America.

Revelation 16:10-11
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Isaiah 13:9-11
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

Isaiah 16:1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

(((Jesus the Lamb will sit on the throne in the kingdom)))
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Isaiah 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones((Satan)) that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
(((Armageddon)))
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Amos 8:9
7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

Job 38:13-15
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went(from view), and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people(Israel), even for salvation with thine anointed(Saints); thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.(To Armageddon)

Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-20
1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

(((The permanent solar eclipse over Israel will continue through the kingdom age.))

NoHype · Mar 30, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
nohype,

<style>  </style> God will send a permanent solar eclipse before Armageddon to judge the antichrist kingdom. It will cause a 200 mile shadow on Israel and darkness on America.

Revelation 16:10-11
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Nothing there about America or Israel. That's just supposition to being that "darkness" there. One of the main subjects we're warned about for the end is against deception. That's the kind of darkness it's pointing to, because that's specifically what that seat of the beast is to cause upon the whole world when Antichrist sits in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and the majority being fooled into thinking he is God, and deceived Christian brethren thinking he is our Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 11 thru 17 reveals Jerualem is where the tribulation beast's seat will be. What you have failed to understand though is that seat where the Antichrist will rule from will extend to cover the whole earth, all nations, not just America.

Isaiah 13:9-11
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

The Day of The LORD events occur with Christ's second coming. That's why the light of the sun and moon will be darkned, because like Apostle Paul said in 2 Thess.2, Christ is coming to destroy that "Wicked" with the "brightness of His coming." That's what the timing is about in that above Isaiah Scripture. That event ends the tribulation with Christ's coming in Glory to gather His Church, and that is when the world is punished.

Isaiah 16:1-5
1 Send ye the lamb to the ruler of the land from Sela to the wilderness, unto the mount of the daughter of Zion.
2 For it shall be, that, as a wandering bird cast out of the nest, so the daughters of Moab shall be at the fords of Arnon.
3 Take counsel, execute judgment; make thy shadow as the night in the midst of the noonday; hide the outcasts; bewray not him that wandereth.
4 Let mine outcasts dwell with thee, Moab; be thou a covert to them from the face of the spoiler: for the extortioner is at an end, the spoiler ceaseth, the oppressors are consumed out of the land.

(((Jesus the Lamb will sit on the throne in the kingdom)))
5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness.

Now you're just posting hap-hazardly, for that Scripture is for when Christ Jesus returns to end the reign of the Antichrist. That's way past the 5th Vial timing, even after the final 7th Vial, for Christ returns to gather His Church and do battle against His enemies on earth on the 7th Vial of Rev.16.

Isaiah 24:21-23
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones((Satan)) that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Well you've missed the timing of that above Scripture also. It's for AFTER Christ's return when Satan will be locked in his pit prison during Christ's future thousand years reign, per Rev.20. And once again, that moon and sun ashamed is about the brightness of Christ's reign in that future time. There are some Scriptures about the moon turning to blood related to events prior... to Christ's return, but you've yet to quote them here yet.

Habakkuk 3:11-13
11 The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear.
12 Thou didst march through the land in indignation, thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.
(((Armageddon)))
13 Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, even for salvation with thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.

Likewise that one is also for the timing of Christ's second coming and the battle of Armageddon.

Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

Here's the Scripture you actually mean below. Notice it says the sun into darkness and the moon into blood BEFORE the "day of the LORD come"...

Joel 2:30-32
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
(KJV)

So what we've got to pay attention to is the timing of the events given with that, for the Day of The LORD events include a description of darkness too...

This following time of darkness is in relation to Christ's second coming, the previous one of Joel 2:30-32 is not:

Joel 3:13-16
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
(KJV)

Here is what the tribulation timing darkness is about...

Joel 2:1-3
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
(KJV)

That's about the locusts loosed on 5th Trumpet for the tribulation timing, in prep for the Antichrist who comes on the 6th Trumpet. Our Lord Jesus returns and gathers His Church on the final 7th Trumpet, the "last trump" of Paul. So that particular "day of darkness and of gloominess" is for the tribulation timing, because of those men which are symbolized as locusts devouring the earth the wealth of God's people.

Amos 8:9
7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
8 Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:

That is once again about the darkness that the beast kingdom will cause upon the earth during the tribulation timing, as revealed by the next verses you left out...

Amos 8:9-12
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
(KJV)

Thus The LORD also uses the idea of darkness to refer to deception for the latter days tribulation prior to Christ's second coming.

Well, all I have time for. I think I've well made my point about being careful with supposition of those symbols.

NoHype · Mar 31, 2014

Truly where America, especially the U.S., is represented in The Bible is with prophecy involving the "house of Israel". The Jews represent the "house of Judah" per God's Word and God promised He would always leave one tribe in Jerusalem for His servant David's sake (1 Kings 11). The Biblical prophecies about the ten tribes how they would wind up is similar to the story of Joseph when separated from his brethren. It is no coincidence that the founding fathers of the U.S. originally wanted to put Moses and Israel going through the Red Sea on the Great Seal of The United States of America. It's no mistake that the U.S. and western Christian nations became the greatest powers in the world, with their taking The Gospel of Jesus Christ to the rest of the world. Ephraim was to become "a multitude of nations" per the Gen.48 prophecy and his brother Manasseh was to also become "great" per that prophecy.

Gen 48:16-20
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.
18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
(KJV)

Christ's enemies hate this prophecy. And many of my Christian brethren are taught by Christ's enemies to hate it also. What's sad is that Christ's enemies know exactly who the western Christian nations of western Europe and America represent, which is why they have sought to destroy us from off the earth. The deceived orthodox Jews especially are deceived in this and have been wrongly taught by the "tares" to hate how God established the Christian nations as the "multitude of nations" under Ephraim and in The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

So when you hear others push the fabrication that America represents the endtime Babylon of the last days Revelation, that is an idea from Christ's enemies, even though some Christian brethren might be deceived in that lie also from listening to the crept in unawares that have crept into many congregations of God's people.

One of the greatest attacks on God's people of the western Christian nations was with the end of WWII which caused many of the western Christian nations to fall under control of Communism from Russia. Even Russia itself was a Christian nation prior to its Communist takeover in 1917, as Czar Nicolas II and Alexandria were direct descendents of Queen Victoria of Great Britain. Prior to that Christ's enemies had overthrown the royal family of France and placed that nation under a collectivist type authority instead with Communist influence. Same thing has happened to Germany which once had Christian monarchs in control instead. Same thing with the Communists attempt to overthrow the monarchs of Spain in 1938. Now most of those western European nations have socialist labor parties that have caused much of modern Europe today to become more aligned with Communist Socialism than under the power of Christian monarchs they originally had.

Today's public educational facilities forgot to tell you about all this western Christian nation history didn't they? The same people that got you to remove God out of the public schools are the same instigators behind these overthrows of the royal monarchies of Europe. Did you really think they were going to teach you about this history? Even today their propaganda machine tries to get you to hate the idea of royal monarchs.

So how many of you will also hate Christ Jesus when He becomes The Royal Monarch over ALL nations here on earth in our near future, when He takes His seat upon David's throne here on earth? He is our KING and we will have Him as our Monarch over us and even over all His enemies. Won't many be surprised when Christ's enemies setup their own monarch in Jerusalem with the coming Antichrist who comes prior to our Lord Jesus' coming? Yes, and amazing it will be when the majority suddenly change their tune when the Antichrist sets himself as king in Jerusalem for the last days!

This is why it's so important for us to heed God in His Word instead of listening to men doctrines which are created to hide these kind of things from God's people. Too many of my Christian brethren don't have a clue about this history when they should already know these things about history and what's Christ's enemies are really up to today.

Eric E Stahl · Mar 31, 2014

NoHype said:
Nothing there about America or Israel. That's just supposition to being that "darkness" there. One of the main subjects we're warned about for the end is against deception. That's the kind of darkness it's pointing to, because that's specifically what that seat of the beast is to cause upon the whole world when Antichrist sits in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem and the majority being fooled into thinking he is God, and deceived Christian brethren thinking he is our Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 11 thru 17 reveals Jerualem is where the tribulation beast's seat will be. What you have failed to understand though is that seat where the Antichrist will rule from will extend to cover the whole earth, all nations, not just America.

The Day of The LORD events occur with Christ's second coming. That's why the light of the sun and moon will be darkned, because like Apostle Paul said in 2 Thess.2, Christ is coming to destroy that "Wicked" with the "brightness of His coming." That's what the timing is about in that above Isaiah Scripture. That event ends the tribulation with Christ's coming in Glory to gather His Church, and that is when the world is punished.

Now you're just posting hap-hazardly, for that Scripture is for when Christ Jesus returns to end the reign of the Antichrist. That's way past the 5th Vial timing, even after the final 7th Vial, for Christ returns to gather His Church and do battle against His enemies on earth on the 7th Vial of Rev.16.

Well you've missed the timing of that above Scripture also. It's for AFTER Christ's return when Satan will be locked in his pit prison during Christ's future thousand years reign, per Rev.20. And once again, that moon and sun ashamed is about the brightness of Christ's reign in that future time. There are some Scriptures about the moon turning to blood related to events prior... to Christ's return, but you've yet to quote them here yet.

Likewise that one is also for the timing of Christ's second coming and the battle of Armageddon.

Here's the Scripture you actually mean below. Notice it says the sun into darkness and the moon into blood BEFORE the "day of the LORD come"...

Joel 2:30-32
30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
(KJV)

So what we've got to pay attention to is the timing of the events given with that, for the Day of The LORD events include a description of darkness too...

This following time of darkness is in relation to Christ's second coming, the previous one of Joel 2:30-32 is not:

Joel 3:13-16
13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
(KJV)

Here is what the tribulation timing darkness is about...

Joel 2:1-3
1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.
(KJV)

That's about the locusts loosed on 5th Trumpet for the tribulation timing, in prep for the Antichrist who comes on the 6th Trumpet. Our Lord Jesus returns and gathers His Church on the final 7th Trumpet, the "last trump" of Paul. So that particular "day of darkness and of gloominess" is for the tribulation timing, because of those men which are symbolized as locusts devouring the earth the wealth of God's people.

That is once again about the darkness that the beast kingdom will cause upon the earth during the tribulation timing, as revealed by the next verses you left out...

Amos 8:9-12
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
(KJV)

Thus The LORD also uses the idea of darkness to refer to deception for the latter days tribulation prior to Christ's second coming.

Well, all I have time for. I think I've well made my point about being careful with supposition of those symbols.

NoHype · Apr 1, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
<style>  </style> When Jesus comes to save Israel, they will be in gross darkness because the sun and moon stand still over it but don’t give light. I would call this a permanent solar eclipse. It will last through the kingdom age. The light of the sun and moon will not mix with the light of Jesus glory in Israel.
Isaiah60:1-2,18-22
1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness._ 18 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.
19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.
21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.
22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.

This darkness starts in the great tribulation and continues through the kingdom age.

America will become an ice cap because of God’s judgment of darkness on the kingdom of antichrist in
Revelation 16:10-11
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast ((In Israel)); and his kingdom ((Dark side of earth)) was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

You're just not understanding the various ways God's Word uses the idea of 'darkness' as an expression...

Isa 59:9-10
9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
(KJV)

Eric E Stahl · Apr 1, 2014

NoHype said:
You're just not understanding the various ways God's Word uses the idea of 'darkness' as an expression...

Isa 59:9-10
9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
(KJV)

Some times God does refer to light and darkness as a spiritual condition but the following verses are referring to physical light and darkness.

Revelation 21:23-24
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

NoHype · Apr 1, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
Some times God does refer to light and darkness as a spiritual condition but the following verses are referring to physical light and darkness.

Revelation 21:23-24
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Yes and that's starting at Christ's future thousand years reign. But some of the verses you quoted earlier are not in the literal darkness sense, nor does the verses you tried to point to America with work.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 1, 2014

NoHype said:
Yes and that's starting at Christ's future thousand years reign. But some of the verses you quoted earlier are not in the literal darkness sense, nor does the verses you tried to point to America with work.

Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-20
1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

(((The permanent solar eclipse over Israel will continue through the kingdom age.))

The lack of sun and moon light in the New Jerusalem is also caused by the New Jerusalem coming into the shadow of the moon over Israel. The new Jerusalem will be suspended between the earth and the moon over the hills of Israel.

james1523 · Apr 2, 2014

It was never God's will for humans to form nations and kingdoms on the earth, such as the USA, or China, or Russia, or New Zealand, or England. In the bible, Nimrod was the first, who built the tower of babel.
Every nation is its own tower of babel, that exalts human achievement and worldly comforts, entertainment and pleasures above God.
In Bible prophecy, America is the continuation of the ancient Roman Empire. Just look at the facts.
Both dominant powers in the world.
America makes war with other countries (as did the Roman Empire).
America is used by God to spread the gospel (as also the Roman Empire).
America is the most advanced nation in the world (as also the Romans).
The eagle - also a Roman symbol.
USA and Roman Empire are about the same physical size.
Multicultural and open - as also the Romans.
A litigious society, many laws and lawsuits - as also the Romans.

In Daniel's prophecy, the last beast was iron mixed with clay (Daniel 2:43), which is the Roman Empire. It is strong, like iron, strong military, government, legal system etc, yet also weak, because it is a mixture of so many cultures and views. Like the Roman Empire, the USA can be a victim of its own success and greatness. Technically this beast has not ended (unless you are preterist), but is continuing throughout time and upheld by the western democracies, led by the USA.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 3, 2014

james1523 said:
It was never God's will for humans to form nations and kingdoms on the earth, such as the USA, or China, or Russia, or New Zealand, or England. In the bible, Nimrod was the first, who built the tower of babel.
Every nation is its own tower of babel, that exalts human achievement and worldly comforts, entertainment and pleasures above God.
In Bible prophecy, America is the continuation of the ancient Roman Empire. Just look at the facts.
Both dominant powers in the world.
America makes war with other countries (as did the Roman Empire).
America is used by God to spread the gospel (as also the Roman Empire).
America is the most advanced nation in the world (as also the Romans).
The eagle - also a Roman symbol.
USA and Roman Empire are about the same physical size.
Multicultural and open - as also the Romans.
A litigious society, many laws and lawsuits - as also the Romans.

In Daniel's prophecy, the last beast was iron mixed with clay (Daniel 2:43), which is the Roman Empire. It is strong, like iron, strong military, government, legal system etc, yet also weak, because it is a mixture of so many cultures and views. Like the Roman Empire, the USA can be a victim of its own success and greatness. Technically this beast has not ended (unless you are preterist), but is continuing throughout time and upheld by the western democracies, led by the USA.

I believe America is the 11th horn that will be lead by the Antichrist and will up root three weak clay horns when Ezekiel 38-39 happens.

tulsa 2011 · Apr 3, 2014

Daniel 7: 4 says "The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it."

Then Revelation 13: 1-3 says "

<tbody>
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[TD="align: left"]And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]<bdo dir="ltr">2</bdo>.[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.[/TD]

[TD="align: right"]<bdo dir="ltr">3</bdo>.[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

The first beast of Revelation 13 has some of the traits of the lion, bear and leopard empires in Daniel 7, one of which is the British empire - the lion who originally had eagle's wings attached to it, which were plucked off. Guess who the eagle's wings are. The Eagle's Wings as a government and empire is an important part of the first beast which is a composite, since it is allied with or includes the Little Horn nation which is in Daniel 7: 8, "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things." The Little Horn is the same as the head of the first beast in Revelation 13: 3 whose deadly wound was healed.
[/TD]

</tbody>

DHC · Apr 3, 2014

james1523 said:
It was never God's will for humans to form nations and kingdoms on the earth, such as the USA, or China, or Russia, or New Zealand, or England. In the bible, Nimrod was the first, who built the tower of babel.
Every nation is its own tower of babel, that exalts human achievement and worldly comforts, entertainment and pleasures above God.
In Bible prophecy, America is the continuation of the ancient Roman Empire. Just look at the facts.
Both dominant powers in the world.
America makes war with other countries (as did the Roman Empire).
America is used by God to spread the gospel (as also the Roman Empire).
America is the most advanced nation in the world (as also the Romans).
The eagle - also a Roman symbol.
USA and Roman Empire are about the same physical size.
Multicultural and open - as also the Romans.
A litigious society, many laws and lawsuits - as also the Romans.

In Daniel's prophecy, the last beast was iron mixed with clay (Daniel 2:43), which is the Roman Empire. It is strong, like iron, strong military, government, legal system etc, yet also weak, because it is a mixture of so many cultures and views. Like the Roman Empire, the USA can be a victim of its own success and greatness. Technically this beast has not ended (unless you are preterist), but is continuing throughout time and upheld by the western democracies, led by the USA.

Hello James.

The USA never had the control over the rest of the world as some of the earlier empires had. America
has dramatically influenced many countries through her generous financial grants. But America is more
about the security of her financial and resource interests abroad, rather than controlling other countries.
The USA never really had an empire in the sense of say the British, Soviet or even the Roman empires.

America had a huge role in restricting the spread of socialism and communism. But America is fast losing
it's grip on the reigns of power and influence that it has had since the second world war. China, Russia,
the European Union and the Islamic world are all catching up fast. China is predicted to surpass the
USA within the next twenty years. This growth of China is phenomenal and China's influence on the
economic world is massive.

Eschatology must deal with the powerful new empires that are vast and world wide. America is an
isolated military and economic force that is waning. But America does have allies but her allies
lack the muscle to assist the slide of the USA into a limited role in future world affairs.

Britain has almost vanished now and is only one nation within the European Union.
America is also undergoing the fall from grace and stumbling into a lesser world status.
Russia is falling into the giant shadow of the Asian economic giant.

A new world is developing that is far more complex and has multiple leaders.
The fullness of the Gentiles has some further ground to cover yet.
We must be patient and wait for the fulfillment of the true eschatology.
An eschatology that involves the whole world and a world subjected to the
self proclaimed sophist, the Beast.

NoHype · Apr 4, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
I believe America is the 11th horn that will be lead by the Antichrist and will up root three weak clay horns when Ezekiel 38-39 happens.

If you re-read Rev.17 in conjunction with Dan.7 & 8 you'll discover that the "little horn" or 11th horn is... the coming Antichrist himself, a king. Rev.17 alludes to him as a king that will rule over the 10 kings (ten horns). This is another reason why that horn is not about America nor any one nation, but an individual, the one Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2 that will sit in a temple in Jerusalem.

NoHype · Apr 4, 2014

james1523 said:
In Daniel's prophecy, the last beast was iron mixed with clay (Daniel 2:43), which is the Roman Empire. It is strong, like iron, strong military, government, legal system etc, yet also weak, because it is a mixture of so many cultures and views. Like the Roman Empire, the USA can be a victim of its own success and greatness. Technically this beast has not ended (unless you are preterist), but is continuing throughout time and upheld by the western democracies, led by the USA.

Actually, the Roman empire was represented by the "legs of iron", the 4th beast and 4th part of the beast image statue in Neb's dream. The 5th part is the feet of ten toes of mixed clay and iron, and is the final beast kingdom of Rev.13:1-2.

Dan.3 & 4 reveals that 5th one will contain all the previous beasts together with it when Christ comes to smite it upon its feet, and the whole together comes falling down. And the idea is that the heavier pieces are on top with the statue is showing it is top heavy, which can be a symbol for its doom to fail.

NoHype · Apr 4, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-20
1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.
20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

(((The permanent solar eclipse over Israel will continue through the kingdom age.))

The lack of sun and moon light in the New Jerusalem is also caused by the New Jerusalem coming into the shadow of the moon over Israel. The new Jerusalem will be suspended between the earth and the moon over the hills of Israel.

A solar eclipse is not what that is about. And the New Jerusalem will be here, right upon this earth, as written. But it will extend from where Jerusalem is today up into the sky, as a cube. But its foundation will be right here on earth.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 4, 2014

NoHype said:
A solar eclipse is not what that is about. And the New Jerusalem will be here, right upon this earth, as written. But it will extend from where Jerusalem is today up into the sky, as a cube. But its foundation will be right here on earth.

Micah 4:1
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

The New Jerusalem will be over Israel at least till the end of the 1000 year kingdom age is over and God comes down to live with man.

Revelation 21:1-4
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

This is not the kingdom age because there is no more sea or death.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 4, 2014

NoHype said:
If you re-read Rev.17 in conjunction with Dan.7 & 8 you'll discover that the "little horn" or 11th horn is... the coming Antichrist himself, a king. Rev.17 alludes to him as a king that will rule over the 10 kings (ten horns). This is another reason why that horn is not about America nor any one nation, but an individual, the one Paul warned of in 2 Thess.2 that will sit in a temple in Jerusalem.

Daniel 2:40-44
40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The revived Roman Empire will be 10 kingdoms at the end of time.

tulsa 2011 · Apr 4, 2014

Consistent literalism can lead to making interpretations of Bible prophecy which turn out to be fables, which are warned about in I Timothy 1: 4, I Timothy 4: 7, II Timothy 4: 4, and Titus 1: 14. Examples are the one man anti-Christ ( I John 2: 18, 4: 3), the one man False Prophet (Matthew 24: 11, II Peter 2:1-3), the man of sin of II Thessalonians 2: 3-4, and there the temple of God being a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, contrary to the New Testament teachings in Acts 7: 48, I Corinthians 3: 16-17 and I Corinthians 6: 19, that the believers are now the temple of God. In II Thessalonians 2: 4 anthropos in Strong's means "the countenace,, manfaced, a human being, man." Mankind or man as a species is the "man" which is the man of sin. One man of sin is more literal and less "spiritualized," but Paul is talking about a spiritual condition of mankind at a point in time.

"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." I Corinthians 11: 19

Heresies is from hairesis, and Strong's Exhaustive Concordance says it means "a choice, a party or disunion, heresy, sect."

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