Angelica Zambrano: Vision of Kingdoms of Heaven & Hell

[jari]

This parable will give my opinion some support.
Luke 12:35-40

[35] "Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, [36] like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. [37] It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. [38] It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night. [39] But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. [40] You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."

Say in a simple word you are a servant,, and then your Lord told you to do the dishes, clean the house and have his bed ready when He comes home. You do those things..so you are "prepared". Let's say then that the Lord arrived and you done nothing unto the tasks He said,,nor you made an effort to do it at all. Would you expect a salary on it? No. The salary on it is His salvation and living with Him through eternity.

Sorry but this cant be true.
You cannot earn salvation by doing works.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[WantToKnowHim]

Thank you very much, jari.

I will replace my term. Yeah, jari's right that you cannot earn salvation..What I mean is "reward".

Though I cannot say what that reward is..-_-.

Again, thank you very much.

 

[jari]

Thank you very much, jari.

I will replace my term. Yeah, jari's right that you cannot earn salvation..What I mean is "reward".

Though I cannot say what that reward is..-_-.

Again, thank you very much.

I think it maybe a blessing now but more importantly it maybe also greater reward in Heaven.. Although Heaven is great reward for everyone in itself.


Luk 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Mat 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

 

[jiggyfly]

So you see that as requirement for salvation, maturity (in love)? Did i understand you correct.

Well that would depend on your definition of salvation.

 

[jari]

Well that would depend on your definition of salvation.

salvation as in going to heaven.

 

[natters]

So, I am in the understanding that God is not contained within our concept of time. Do you not think that certainly after death judgment occurs immediately for everyone as at that point time as we understand it no longer exists...

I believe that God certainly has the power to show this to someone - along with who will be there as He obviously has the knowledge of who is going to hell and who isn't.

Compared to other testimonies of the same type, how does this one hold up? I'm thinking of Ian McCormack

I can't post links so if you aren't sure who that is you'll have to google him :/ sorry!

interested what you guys think

 

[jari]

So, I am in the understanding that God is not contained within our concept of time. Do you not think that certainly after death judgment occurs immediately for everyone as at that point time as we understand it no longer exists...

I believe that God certainly has the power to show this to someone - along with who will be there as He obviously has the knowledge of who is going to hell and who isn't.

Compared to other testimonies of the same type, how does this one hold up? I'm thinking of Ian McCormack

I can't post links so if you aren't sure who that is you'll have to google him :/ sorry!

interested what you guys think

Hmmm who said time no longer exists?


I dont believe this kinda hell as descriped in the video exists. theres no biblical support for it. and there's other views of hell which are different.
So many people claiming different kinda of views.

For example Jesus story of hell in the bible, is different, it has none of the things mentioned in this video.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Hmmm who said time no longer exists?

Natters didn't say time no longer exists; she said that God is not contained within (subject to) our concept of time, which is true.

SLE

"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Pet 3:8 NIV).

 

[jari]

Natters didn't say time no longer exists; she said that God is not contained within (subject to) our concept of time, which is true.

SLE

"With the Lord a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years are like a day." (2 Pet 3:8 NIV).

Yes i know what she meant and its quite broad assumption from single verse.
In my opinion..

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Is it Sheol,no ?
jari showed us the old testament scriptures about the
"the grave",or Sheol.
There is no torment or knowledge.
It is just like the atheist heaven,NOTHING.

Hades is NOT the same as Sheol
Hades and hell are from Greek mythology.
And so is Tartarus.
Jesus spoke of Gehenna,which is the garbage dump outside Jerusalem
where there worm dieth not and the fire never ceases.
Jesus said we sleep.
Why would death hell and the grave be emptied of it's inhabitants in Rev. and then the dead judged and then thrown back in hell?
No ,it says death hell and the grave are thrown in the lake of fire.
So if the judged spend eternity in hell then do they have to go through the lake of fire to get there?
By the way my God is an all consuming fire.
Rather than form some loose doctrine out of misunderstanding I personally have chosen to leave the punishment to God.
Jews started entertaining the mythological concepts(Khabalah,Zohan etc..) years before Jesus appears.That's one reason Paul warned:
Titus 1:14. Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

Many times in the old testament God refers to other god's as though they were real.Then usually there is a disclaimer when he says something like "though they are no gods at all".Not a contradiction,more like sarcasm.

The story of beggar Lazarus and the Rich man(name not known)
does suggest(not prove) our "sleep" may come with dreams of some sort.The rich man in torment wanted to cool his tongue(what is set on fire of hell?).And even wanted Lazarus to serve him in the afterlife.
The rich man is not named because his name is not in the Lamb's book of life.He is cast into utter darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Jesus said we sleep,people who experience near death and remember it have a widely various
experiences of it.So many things are left a mystery until the appointed time.

 

[natters]

Yes i know what she meant and its quite broad assumption from single verse.

You don't think it means what it says? I would think that it's pretty obvious that our sense of "time" is centered around the solar system. Which will not exist in the same way we understand it now after teh earth has been destroyed.....

 

[jari]

Yes i know what she meant and its quite broad assumption from single verse.

You don't think it means what it says? I would think that it's pretty obvious that our sense of "time" is centered around the solar system. Which will not exist in the same way we understand it now after teh earth has been destroyed.....

I think it just means what seems lot to us like thousand years is nothing to grasp for God but its like one day.

 

[natters]

I guess I'll have to disagree then. I find it highly unlikely that time with God will be the same here on earth. It makes no sense with having no solar system - or a different kind of solar system (which is talked about in 2 Peter 3 as well). Furthermore, Psalm 90:4 says the same thing...so really you've got not a single verse, but two

 

[jari]

I guess I'll have to disagree then. I find it highly unlikely that time with God will be the same here on earth. It makes no sense with having no solar system - or a different kind of solar system (which is talked about in 2 Peter 3 as well). Furthermore, Psalm 90:4 says the same thing...so really you've got not a single verse, but two

Yes im not denying that the scripture says that, I just disagree what it means. It very well could be that we experience time differently then. But it doesnt say God and Heaven And hell are outside of time....

 

[natters]

so I might just ask that you reread what I wrote so you can see that perhaps we agree with each other.

I said "time as we understand it no longer exists..."

 

[jari]

so I might just ask that you reread what I wrote so you can see that perhaps we agree with each other.

I said "time as we understand it no longer exists..."

Right. But I still dont see how can scripture say that hell comes at final judgement and this video says hell is already?

It actually says in many places the judgement comes at ends of the days. Aka end of the world.
Rev 20:13

 

[natters]

Oh I agree, I just thought that maybe since God had the ability to show John in revelation things that were to come He could show this girl things that were to come as well.

That being said, I don't really know if I believe this video or not yet.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Right. But I still dont see how can scripture say that hell comes at final judgement and this video says hell is already?

I don't think scripture says that at all.

Why would death hell and the grave be emptied of it's inhabitants in Rev. and then the dead judged and then thrown back in hell?
No ,it says death hell and the grave are thrown in the lake of fire.
So if the judged spend eternity in hell then do they have to go through the lake of fire to get there?

Natters does have a point about our "relative time" being governed by the nearest largest mass(our solar system).
I think it adds a layer of complexity to the whole equation.It does skew our ability to see things from a spiritual perspective.

 

[jari]

I doupt God gave us scripture to be understood only after we understand time/mass science.
I think its for everyone to understand, with or without this level of scientific knowledge of time and mass.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I doupt God gave us scripture to be understood only after we understand time/mass science.
I think its for everyone to understand, with or without this level of scientific knowledge of time and mass.

I tend to agree,with a disclaimer.

The Word has layers,like an onion.
It is a living Word,written for people at the time and for those who would have to try to see back through 2000 years of fog.
A lack of understanding how the universe works is not going to keep anyone from being accepted by God.
The New testament left some "mysteries" that we were told would be revealed.
However since science has chosen a "chance model" I don't think it likely that his people would be left without rebuttal.Let's face it Christian "apologetics"could use an update or two.