Angelica Zambrano: Vision of Kingdoms of Heaven & Hell

[jari]

I tend to agree,with a disclaimer.

The Word has layers,like an onion.
It is a living Word,written for people at the time and for those who would have to try to see back through 2000 years of fog.
A lack of understanding how the universe works is not going to keep anyone from being accepted by God.
The New testament left some "mysteries" that we were told would be revealed.
However since science has chosen a "chance model" I don't think it likely that his people would be left without rebuttal.Let's face it Christian "apologetics"could use an update or two.

Maybe they need update, I dont know. But when some one makes video about hell i expect to understand it in the light of Bible without having to consult someone who is scientist... Somebody who knows physics and time well.
Because if you take that line of trying to fit visions into reality of scripture by using higher science than what we are used to understanding, then it becomes vague wheter or not the visions fit in bible.

Because we dont really know how the heavenly realms are and how hell is. And if we start thinking there maybe or may not be this and that (mass & time) then what else can somebody claim as there is no evidence for us to tell what kinda of realm there is. So i think we should stick on what we know or else we can only assume.

And i dont think we need higher science because people have always had visions and used their best ability to descripde what they seen and its not too hard to understand. No where in the bible is visions that are Both current and future in sense that time would not exist on the spiritual realm...

Always in bible there's futures visions and prophecies , things that have not happened yet but will and in John revelation we see the angels of heaven and horsemen of Lord to deal with earth in various ways. So no explanation of time not being same in there (heavenly realm) needed.

It seems all perfectly understandable without higher science in the bible.

Bottom line is if somebody makes video that does not lineup with bible in sensible way like rest of the scripture in the bible about hell and all the visions then I cant really believe it and ask why its so out of the line?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I'm glad you think it's all perfectly understandable.
Maybe you can answer some of the hundreds of questions scripture has left me with.
Higher science does not help at all.
In the Spirit there is no time at all.
If you will EVER be in heaven you are there now.


Eph. 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Col 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus
2 Thes 1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was believed.

According to these verses we were resurrected 2000 years ago
I would love for some one to help me understand what I should do with the above scriptures.Am I waiting for the Lord or am I with him already.

 

[jari]

I'm glad you think it's all perfectly understandable.
Maybe you can answer some of the hundreds of questions scripture has left me with.
Higher science does not help at all.
In the Spirit there is no time at all.
If you will EVER be in heaven you are there now.


Eph. 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Col 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus
2 Thes 1:10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was believed.

According to these verses we were resurrected 2000 years ago
I would love for some one to help me understand what I should do with the above scriptures.Am I waiting for the Lord or am I with him already.

Brother the apostole wrote to the churches and people of that time those verses. But the same verses ably to us. because faith is same to us what it was for them 2000 years ago.

I hope that makes sense

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Brother the apostole wrote to the churches and people of that time those verses. But the same verses apply to us. because faith is same to us what it was for them 2000 years ago.

I hope that makes sense

Yes,that does make sense and I agree.
It doesn't answer my questions about
the meaning.
If it applies to us then we are there now.
If we are there now then many doctrines the church holds are flawed.
I don't take the video as any kind of proof of anything.
It only serves to take my eyes off Jesus,and give my focus to
dark things.If God wanted people to come to Jesus out of fear
he could give the wicked frightening dreams.

 

[jari]

Yes,that does make sense and I agree.
It doesn't answer my questions about
the meaning.
If it applies to us then we are there now.
If we are there now then many doctrines the church holds are flawed.

I think u are referring to this verse Bro:

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus

I believe its spiritual meaning the verse talks about here. Because we certainly are on earth , but through spirit we are in God's kingdom.

Remember what Jesus says about kingdom of God?

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

So in spiritual sense we are sitting in heavenly places, in spirit. But we certainly are in this time and this world right now.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Again we agree,and I did quote Eph 2:6.

I believe its spiritual meaning the verse talks about here. Because we certainly are on earth , but through spirit we are in God's kingdom.

Remember what Jesus says about kingdom of God?

Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I agree,we exist in the Kingdom of God which appears to be located in his saints.The following verse is witness to that.

John 14:23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Then we have to consider the kingdom of heaven,the heavenlies,the heavens,heaven,heavenly places and high places.Then there is the kingdom of the air which we were once subject to and unbelievers still are under rule of that kingdom.

At the return of Christ we will meet him in the "air".
And so we will ever be with him.
Does anybody have any opinions on what this kingdom of the air might be?

I must admit when people say it's easy to understand I feel I must be stupid because for every answer I get 10 more questions.

 

[jari]

Again we agree,and I did quote Eph 2:6.

I agree,we exist in the Kingdom of God which appears to be located in his saints.The following verse is witness to that.

John 14:23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Then we have to consider the kingdom of heaven,the heavenlies,the heavens,heaven,heavenly places and high places.Then there is the kingdom of the air which we were once subject to and unbelievers still are under rule of that kingdom.

At the return of Christ we will meet him in the "air".
And so we will ever be with him.
Does anybody have any opinions on what this kingdom of the air might be?

I must admit when people say it's easy to understand I feel I must be stupid because for every answer I get 10 more questions.

we exist only on earth and earthly realm but through spirit have access to God and His kingdom.
We will meet Lord in the air at rapture.
the airs not kigndom its only where we meet him

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

The "air" is a kingdom where unbelievers reside.
There is a prince of the power of the "air".

2 Cor. 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News.
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

There is a kingdom of the air and a prince of the air.
Satan is the god of this world and prince of the power of the air.
Not for long though.

I agree with you about the video there is no reason to believe that represents a true picture of anything but the human mind.

 

[jari]

Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

The "air" is a kingdom where unbelievers reside.
There is a prince of the power of the "air".

2 Cor. 4:4 Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News.
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

There is a kingdom of the air and a prince of the air.
Satan is the god of this world and prince of the power of the air.
Not for long though.

I agree with you about the video there is no reason to believe that represents a true picture of anything but the human mind.

Ok Bro. But like i said we can only reside in spiritual kingdom by the spirit. Physically we are here, but by spirit we have access to spiritual things and God's kingdom.

So we are really not in kingdom, the kingdom is within us.. in spiritual sense!


were not there until we die .. Php 1:23-24




You know the word spirit in Bible could be itself be translated as "a current of air". So it makes sense the Apostole wrote
"the prince of the power of the air, " because he was referring to Satan the prince who works in power of spirit in the "air".

Here's the definition of the word spririt:
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

So it seems that to say "power of the air" is just reference to spiritual powers on earth

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The kingdom is in us but we have to wait till we die to get there?

All these use Strong's 109

Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. And a mighty shout came from the throne in the Temple, saying, "It is finished!"

Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

It seems to me the "air" is a realm,the Jews thought it to be filled with demons and Beelzebub(prince of flies) was the prince.

Could the 7th vial be judgment poured out on the air kingdom to prepare it for domination by the Lamb and his tens of thousands of saints?

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold,
the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

 

[jari]

The kingdom is in us but we have to wait till we die to get there?

All these use Strong's 109

Rev 16:17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air. And a mighty shout came from the throne in the Temple, saying, "It is finished!"

Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

It seems to me the "air" is a realm,the Jews thought it to be filled with demons and Beelzebub(prince of flies) was the prince.

Could the 7th vial be judgment poured out on the air kingdom to prepare it for domination by the Lamb and his tens of thousands of saints?

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold,
the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints

Its interesting topic Bro. I think we pretty much agree on the Air being realm, except I think the evil spirits are on earth like they were in Jesus days on earth. And remember what the Lord did? He cast them out of people and some he sent to swines that fell of cliff. And I think spirits work not in possesive way in children of disobedience but in luring and enticing ways,... And I was just today thinking that how this worlds people are all more or less enticed by spirits. Every where in this world there's spirits really. But we are clad when drawn by God's spirit

Its big topic maybe you should post another thread about this in the forums , i dont have much else to say on this topic

 

[lioncub]

I believe that the vision was from Jesus Christ.

It should also make one more sober about their salvation ! I received my salvation several years ago, by receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, so did countless others. In fact my entire church all spoke in tongues after receiving the Holy Spirit ! I was then later baptised in water in full immersion.

But I want to put this question to any that think differently. Wouldn't you want to be absolutely certain that you have received the Holy Spirit ? If you haven't even got the Holy Spirit when Jesus Christ returns, where are you going to end up when Jesus returns ? You can listen to commentaries, the thoughts of man, your own pastor etc. But are they telling you the truth ? Would you rather listen to what man says, than what the Word of God says ?

In Acts 2:4, the 120 (not just the apostles ! ) received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues "as the Spirit gave them utterance". Why should this be any different today ? Let no man rob you of your salvation ! Why should you put up with doubt and uncertainty ? Had God intended it that way ? The cost of not obeying the gospel is eternal punishment !

Whether or not you agree with me, that is up to you. I won't force anyone. But if you don't repent, you're portion will be the lake of fire (Jesus said: "Repent or perish !") as you have seen in this vision. Repent, be baptised in water and seek for the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) as Jesus encouraged and receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues just like what happened on Pentecost ! Make sure that you are ready for Him when He comes back, and live forever !! But Hurry ! Jesus Christ is returning very very soon !

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Matt. 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matt. 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Matt. 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Matt. 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

It is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance.
Taste and see that the Lord is GOOD.

Gospel means good news.

The vision does not taste good to me,I consider it bad fruit.
Besides it's not scriptural.

 

[JustSomeone]

Matt. 7:15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

Matt. 7:16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Matt. 7:17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

Matt. 7:18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

It is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance.
Taste and see that the Lord is GOOD.

Gospel means good news.

The vision does not taste good to me,I consider it bad fruit.
Besides it's not scriptural.

I fully agree with you. There are many contradictions with the Scripture. Moreover, Pope John Paul II in hell? He was one of the most holy people that ever lived on this planet. He preached about Heaven and Hell, he always stood up for what's right, he wasn't scared to stand against the immorality and decay of this world. I won't even count how many souls he saved himself! And when he got shot by a man, he forgave him in front of the whole world.

Now, moving on. Children in hell? How can children go to hell if they can't even tell good from bad? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I'm also pretty sure that for a person to go to hell she/he must reject God with the full consent of the will. The second choice is to accept Him by accepting Jesus and inviting him into ones life. There's not a third option. A person can either accept Jesus and be saved or reject Him and be damned (go to hell). And how a person who has lived a holy life, went to confession every few days, streered Catholic church and all people of the world into Heaven - how that person could possibly reject God? Again, it doesn't make ANY sense. Moreover, it's a serious slander.

Also, going by the logic, if John Paul II wasn't worthy of Heaven (as she claims) then who of us is? I say again, it's all nonsense and deception.

Not to mention, isn't that suspicious that she mentioned very well known, lately deceased, figures?

Also, I don't think that angels really have wings.

I refuse to belive that nonsense that this girl speaks. She's a false prophet and we can see that by the "fruits" as it was said in the Bible. Many false prophets will arise as the world is coming to an end. Be alert brothers and don't be deceived!

 

[jari]

Cant trust both bible and this video as the truth

Jesus wouldnt ever give such horrible cruel vision of hell to anyone as its untrue. Internet has many videos like this that are all different.

Yes she is a false prophet....

bearing bad fruit. Fruit of fear and no hope. As the video says that only holy people get to heaven. But I dont think this is found from the bible.

Five contradictions with the Bible I could think of:


1) Bible says that no one is sent to witness from the dead because it will not make them repent. Luk 16:30-31


2) And according to Bible hell is at the end of the world not now. And all the unbelievers will come to judgement at the same time at the end of the world. Rev 20:12-13


3) Acording to Bible hell is lake of fire. This is a total contradiction with the video. Rev 20:15


4) In this video demons travel between hell and earth.
Arent demons suposed to be suffering in hell? in this video they are not. Mat 25:41 Rev 20:10


5) Bible doesnt teach that Christian must be holy inorder to be saved. Bible says if you believe in Jesus you are saved and there is no condemantion to believers. Rom 10:9 Rom 8:1

 

[JustSomeone]

Jesus wouldnt ever give such horrible cruel vision of hell to anyone as its untrue. Internet has many videos like this that are all different.

Yes she is a false prophet....

bearing bad fruit. Fruit of fear and no hope. As the video says that only holy people get to heaven. But I dont think this is found from the bible.

Four contradictions with the Bible I could think of:


Also bible says that no one is sent to witness from the dead because it will not make them repent. Luk 16:30-31


And according to Bible hell is at the end of the world not now. And all the unbelievers will come to judgement at the same time at the end of the world. Rev 20:12


In this video hell already and demons travel between hell and earth.
Arent demons suposed to be suffering in hell? in this video they are not. Mat 25:41


Bible doesnt teach that Christian must be holy inorder to be saved. Bible says if you believe in Jesus you are saved and there is no condemantion to believers. Rom 10:9 Rom 8:1

Amen my brother!

This video brings exactly what you wrote: despair and loss of hope. That's why Jesus said we have to be strong and we should not be deceived by false prophets.

 

[dannibear]

Kids in hell...No I can't believe that is true.
Mark 10:14

 

[macca]

Holy Spirit and Salvation

I believe that the vision was from Jesus Christ.

It should also make one more sober about their salvation ! I received my salvation several years ago, by receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, so did countless others. In fact my entire church all spoke in tongues after receiving the Holy Spirit ! I was then later baptised in water in full immersion.

But I want to put this question to any that think differently. Wouldn't you want to be absolutely certain that you have received the Holy Spirit ? If you haven't even got the Holy Spirit when Jesus Christ returns, where are you going to end up when Jesus returns ? You can listen to commentaries, the thoughts of man, your own pastor etc. But are they telling you the truth ? Would you rather listen to what man says, than what the Word of God says ?

In Acts 2:4, the 120 (not just the apostles ! ) received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues "as the Spirit gave them utterance". Why should this be any different today ? Let no man rob you of your salvation ! Why should you put up with doubt and uncertainty ? Had God intended it that way ? The cost of not obeying the gospel is eternal punishment !

Whether or not you agree with me, that is up to you. I won't force anyone. But if you don't repent, you're portion will be the lake of fire (Jesus said: "Repent or perish !") as you have seen in this vision. Repent, be baptised in water and seek for the Holy Spirit (Luke 11:13) as Jesus encouraged and receive the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues just like what happened on Pentecost ! Make sure that you are ready for Him when He comes back, and live forever !! But Hurry ! Jesus Christ is returning very very soon !

Lioncub; do you suggest that the 120 in the upper room had not accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour until their experience.
It seems to me that you suggest that salvation is not given until a person speaks in tongues.
Eph 1: 13 tells that we receive a seal of Holy spirit when we accept Jesus as Saviour, yet Paul says nothing about tongues there
(13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.)
The New King James Version. (Eph 1:13-14).
The way you present this seems to suggest that the thief on the cross, who was promised salvation by Jesus, was an abberation receiving the promise of the reward without speaking in tongues.

 

[JustSomeone]

Lioncub; do you suggest that the 120 in the upper room had not accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour until their experience.
It seems to me that you suggest that salvation is not given until a person speaks in tongues.
Eph 1: 13 tells that we receive a seal of Holy spirit when we accept Jesus as Saviour, yet Paul says nothing about tongues there
(13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.)
The New King James Version. (Eph 1:13-14).
The way you present this seems to suggest that the thief on the cross, who was promised salvation by Jesus, was an abberation receiving the promise of the reward without speaking in tongues.

Speaking in tongues is a gift. It's not necessary for salvation. It may be granted to a person by God and it may help a person grow in faith. Not many people actually speak in tongues. So you're automatically suggesting that they're all not saved? That's nonsense.

Why people make it so hard for themselves and for others? Did Jesus say we have to speak in tongues in order to be saved? No. He clearly said what we need to do in order to be saved - turn away from sin and believe that Jesus is the Son of God, that he died for our sins and that he rose from the dead. As simple as that.

 

[ChristSeeker]

Hello everyone.

This girl's testimony is biblically unsound. I do not know what she is having, but she is irrevocably wrong on a lot.


1st, we should compare anything we hear (and even see, ‘And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.’ 2 Corinthians 11;14) with Scripture because God will never go against His Word. Please read 1 Thessalonians 5:21.

2nd, if we go to hell (even briefly) we can’t come back to earth. Please read Luke chapter 16. The rich man in Luke 16 asked if Lazarus could warn his brothers and he said to Lazarus if someone came back to life they would listen and God’s Word said they wouldn’t, so this girl’s testimony is in complete opposition to the Word.

3rd, Satan and his demons want to confuse us by whatever means. Just like 1 Corinthians 14:33 says: “God is the author of peace but Satan is the author of confusion."

4th, you may also be told about Acts 2:17, “your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions.” and that is where I got deceived and therefore was almost convinced of this testimony.
That verse is actually referring to the millennial kingdom (the title given to the 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth). And when Apostle Peter wrote that there were apostles and prophets, so it was correct for then.

Also, Ephesians 2:20 tells us that the church was built on the foundation of apostles and prophets, and when you build a foundation, you don’t build another foundation 2000 later on top of what you were building on the original.

In a word, a foundation is built once and it to be built upon.

I’m glad this testimony was passed on to me, as I am now more aware of our Lord’s second coming.

God bless!