Hi Sue J, Thanks for bringing up such a great post and to all for the thoughtful answers! I was listening to a podcast today that wasn't on this specifically, but might provide some insight into this topic, and the broader idea of Church leadership, what works and what doesn't. The preacher's name is Chip Ingram and he said that this is his take, not from Sinai, just what he has gleaned from extensive study. He talked about spiritual gifts as coming from Romans 12 (v6-8) and mentions motivational gifts falling into 7 categories. He talked about how someone might have a pastoral gifting, shepherding people, but not be in the office of a pastor, just as the opposite can be true. He also linked things together, and said he thought all Christians had a primary motivational gift. He talked about one of them being apostolic, (if I remember right! It wasn't my primary so I wasn't as tuned in....). He did say that the (apostolic) office is closed, just as we wouldn't add books to the bible, but the gifting still occurs in people - like people who church plant or are visionaries, there was a lot in his talk today. Here's the link, it might be helpful to you, because my brain is already spent for the day!
How to Develop Your Spiritual Gift for Kingdom Impact, Part 1
fgwd, I finally had time to listen to part of the podcast, at least up through the part where Chip described what he believed to be the office of apostle vs. the gift of apostleship. He seems to be on somewhat sound footing on this subject, from what I can tell, but there may have been more I did not hear, for I had to go before it finished. I agree with him that apostles in the New Testament were the writers of scripture for the church under the New Covenant, and once that was complete, that there is to be no new revelation, in the sense of adding scripture to existing scripture, or in removing of existing scripture.
The Biblical criteria he listed for a New Testament apostle, though, fit the 12, but not Paul, but yet Paul was the primary writer of the New Testament books, so that was a little inconsistent, since he also said they were the writers of scripture for the church. Paul was not with Jesus during his earthly ministry, and his visitation from Jesus on the road to Damascus was after Jesus ascended to heaven. Yet Paul did live in the area of the world where Jesus ministered during his earthly ministry, and Paul was alive when Jesus walked this earth, was crucified, and when he rose again. I guess that is why Paul said he was one that was "abnormally born," I think is the way he worded it. And, yes, there were others who were also called apostles, and the church is built on the foundation of the prophets and the apostles, with Christ as the cornerstone.
Primary is that Christ Jesus is our foundation and that no other foundation is to be laid other than him, and that he gave the words to his apostles to give to us, which were/are the Words of God to us. Yet, Jesus Christ is the one to be high and lifted up, not humans!
Chip described what he believed was the gift of apostleship, but it is based more on history than on actual teaching on this subject, I believe. For instance, he said that gift of apostleship had to do with church planting and being in leadership over a church plant. Although Paul did that, as did probably some of the other apostles, I don't know that all the apostles were church planters or that they were all in positions of leadership (as overseers) within the church, though they may have been, or that all who planted churches or served as overseers in the church had the gift of apostleship. The main thing about an apostle, as with any other gift of the Spirit, is that this must be a direct calling of God, i.e. this person must be chosen and commissioned by God, and this is not something that can be inherited from other humans. The gifting must be of the Spirit of God as he chooses, not as humans choose, and this person must be directed of the Spirit of God as to the specific assignment God has for this individual. There are many people these days calling themselves prophets and apostles who are just listening to other humans and they are getting their direction from one another and not from God, and yet they speak as though they are speaking for God, which is why we must test everything.
To me, the most important thing here is not a title. God wants humble and willing servants who will do whatever he calls them to do. I do what I do because God called me to do this. I don't need a title to do what I do. There is no self-glory in what I do. John the Baptist, although he was a prophet, did not own that title. He just said he was a voice calling in the wilderness, "Prepare ye the way of the Lord." He knew what God called him to do and he just did it. I think sometimes people get too caught up in positions and titles and it can be a pride thing, although, in Paul's case, most especially because of his history, he did have to establish that God had called him to be an apostle, because he had to establish his authority and that he was speaking God's words, because the gospel of Jesus Christ was under attack, and so he had to defend himself and his calling from God in order to defend the gospel against those who were trying to destroy it by trying to discredit Paul.
The other important thing here is that we know what is true and what is truly false so when someone comes along and claims to be an apostle or especially if they claim to have some special apostolic authority granted them through succession, we know the truth so we don't buy into the lies and so we are not deceived. We do this by studying the Word and searching the scriptures when we are confronted with a teaching of which we are not familiar, and by testing everything we see, hear and read against the Word of God to make sure it is consistent with scripture and with God's divine character and will.
P.S. Life is a little hectic for me right now, but a good hectic. I have four grown children and 12 (+1 to come) grandchildren, and my youngest son, who is married and has four children, just moved back to South Carolina from having lived in California for 2 years, and after getting out of the army, after having served his country for 12 years (4 deployments). In addition to that, it is summer, so all the kids are out of school, so we have been having lots of family time lately, which is why I had to go before I finished listening to the podcast. My 12 grandchildren range in age from 1 to 16 (7 girls and 5 boys). We surely are enjoying all of them. As time permits, I will get back to the podcast and see what I missed. Thanks for sharing it with me.
6-8.
