As true born again Christians must or should we name and shame heretics?

[Alan McDougall]

As true born again Christians who believe and obey the uncorrupted Gospel of the Lord Jesus and Salvation through his shed blood?
As a duty to Almighty God's, both name and shame obviously corrupt heretics?

Be Blessed
Alan McDougall

 

[Trevor]

As true born again Christians who believe and obey the uncorrupted Gospel of the Lord Jesus and Salvation through his shed blood?
As a duty to Almighty God's, both name and shame obviously corrupt heretics?

Be Blessed
Alan McDougall

Hi Alan,
our Lord calls us to love our enemies, bless those that curse us, do good to those who hate us, and pray for those who mistreat us and persecute us. I have found that prayer often changes situations, but to name and shame brings, to say the least, hurt and discomfort and rather that cause a person to look kindly on Christians, would alienate them.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

what does the Bible say?


Bless you all ....><>

 

[Sue D.]

We Are to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen.

A person Could always share 'a different perspective' using God's Word to share the truth without being negative.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

As true born again Christians who believe and obey the uncorrupted Gospel of the Lord Jesus and Salvation through his shed blood?
As a duty to Almighty God's, both name and shame obviously corrupt heretics?

Be Blessed
Alan McDougall

Paul did.

 

[Trevor]

I have often read people's narratives that border on Heresy, but it is normaly born out of ignorance and the desire to appear knowledgable. With reasoned argument these misunderstandings can be used to enhance a debate and sprinkled with a tad of love can leave the opponent with their dignity and at the same time expand their understanding.

 

[PloughBoy]

You have to be very careful, when approaching terms like , heresy, heretics, Apostasy, because like "Trevor" has said, could be born out of ignorance, illiteracy or handicapped, by many different reasons, even a persons environmental up bringing. "In-error" would be the proper term. For the landscape I describe. And for the upper level, I personal think are for those christians who are schooled and gifted in the field of "Biblical Apologetics" They know their stuff, and are a force to be reckon with, with great humility. And most of them do not read translations for study, they read, and for study, the "Real McCoy"!

 

[B-A-C]

And for the upper level, I personal think are for those christians who are schooled and gifted in the field of "Biblical Apologetics" They know their stuff, and are a force to be reckon with, with great humility.

I agree, bit it doesn't always have to be for apologetics.

Still you do make a good point here. There is a difference between being a new Christian and making a theological mistake, and a seasoned theologian who has read through the Bible many times
and still teaches a spirit of error. I believe only one of those two people qualifies as a heretic.

Very few (if any) brand new Christians are experts on everything in the Bible. I expect them to make a few mistakes, and have a few questions about their beliefs.
But after a while, they should be growing, studying, learning, and maturing in the word... in "the Faith" as it were. Paul says at some point we should move from just milk to meat.

But there are people (cults with millions of followers) who have been told and shown the truth over and over again, but they refuse to accept it. More than that.. many are teaching these things
right here on TalkJesus... everyday.

 

[Sue D.]

I'm concerned with a comment made recently concerning the field of Biblical apologetics. All that really is IS knowing what a person believes and what their beliefs are based on. I became interested in doctrinal apologetics some years ago. We Need to know what we believe and be able to express that to others. That's how people have conversation. No one's beliefs are 'perfect'. There Are those who interpret 'apologetics' as a person 'apologizing' to others for their Bible - centered beliefs. I don't see why Biblical apologetics people would be a force to be reckoned with. Maybe people feel intimidated when talking about their beliefs. A lot of people grow up with the concept that the Bible / God's Word / is too complicated to understand. But we Are to be growing in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. And that can be done by reading an NAS , NKJ , ESV.

 

[PloughBoy]

Ok, let me explain myself concerning the "field" of "Biblical Apologetics". I mean it is a "specialty" or a christian that is gifted by God in that practice and most of the time they "hold" the office of "Elder" in the Institutional church". They are learned in the Hebrew and Greek languages. and they Know the whole Bible by memory in different translations as well. And they are knowledgable in other "religions" and languages for in which they debate and are engage in the defense of the faith or they contend for the faith that once was delivered to the saints. These people are on top level, debating top levells of other religions. Remember we are commanded to take the Gospel to the whole world. [all levels]. Believe me, These guys are heavy! They have to be. We are in Warfare! And sometimes we are required to engage. and you must be well equip and skilled in handling the Word of God. And they can go to places we cannot go. They accept invitations, to present "the Gospel of Jesus Christ' and it is not in "Monologue form" but "Dialogue form". You just got to believe what i say, is to going to get with these people. And if that person converts he help converts others in their regions.

Now i will say this: Every christian should be in the "defense of the faith" and be skilled at doing it and well equipped with the knowledge of God.
We must realize also, sometimes a "Peter" must go to "Cornelius"s house". And Paul must go to "Rome" but wanting to go to "Spain". and "Philip" has to stand up in a "Chariot" beside a Ethiopian eunuch. But each one had to be well equip for a precise proclamation. It sometimes have to be in "Dialogue' not Monologue".

 

[Sue D.]

There Are some very well-known Apologists. One of them recently passed away. But not every apologist is a reknown theologist -- far from it. And mostly Not. And I've heard some Elders of churches that are very hesitant in Scripture. And no one needs to have entire Bible memorized in different translations as well. That's going Way over-board. You make it sound like the average person can't possibly know enough Bible to share what they believe. Our salvation is The most important decision we can make and that is something we can share with anyone who want to listen. And we Need to know what we believe and why we believe it. A short answer compared to a theological dissertation on particular subjects is fine.

It Needs to be a dialogue and not a monologue. Some people just like to hear themselves talk. The sound of their own voice.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Unless you become like little children... you will not see the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Do not stop the little children, let them come to me for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Curtis]

1Pe 3:15 but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
1Pe 3:16 having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.

 

[Brother-Paul]

We are to love one another as Christ loves us.

We are to love our neighbour as ourselves.

Name and shame does not fit with our Lord's teaching and should not even be considered.

Are we perfect, no.

Our Lord warned, we will reap what we sow.

We are to go in peace. Jesus said, my peace I give to you, not as the world gives I give you peace.

May the peace of God which passers all understanding, keep our hearts and minds the knowledge and Love of God, and His Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Name and shame does not show the peace of Christ in us. Name and shame stirs up more harm than good. The question that answers this clearly is to ask ourselves, what would jesus do?

Shalom

 

[Sosthenes]

The reality is that most pastors would if they wouldn't be sued. Churches are run like corporations and they have lawyers who would sue you for everything you have. When I was younger, I didn't care. An administrator at a Christian Bible College warned me against doing this.

The reality is that Paul named names and if you didn't, you are basically not protecting those who are younger than elders in the church.

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. -Galatians 2

Your parents were to keep the garden of Eden and one of the definitions of keep is basically to guard. We know what happened from there. The angels kept not their first estate and didn't guard it. We know that one third of the angels fell.

What is the purpose of apologetics? To defend the faith? Who do you think cares about your defense? The unrighteous do not. The unrighteous love evil.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

I've seen pastors in this generation fight over the meaning of 1 John 2:15 and we should love people but even if you didn't know what it meant, you can compare it to other scriptures:

2 John 1:9 ¶ Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

If we are supposed to love people, what does it matter? We compare scripture with scripture.

A lot of Christians are in a bad relationship with a pastor who is false and if I touch them verbally with kid gloves on, I become their enemy because I tell them the truth.

And another verse comes to mind but we're not loving people with the truth if we keep silence. Truth has a center and we're not walking in truth if we don't tell the truth.

The reality is we're holding on to these dead corpses we call our bodies.

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

I feel that these things we hold onto ruin our reputation spiritually and maybe the persons we want to witness to don't want to believe because they see our garments spotted by the flesh.

 

[Sue D.]

No one needs to be 'naming and shaming false teachers' from the pulpit .. Do make sure that Sound , Biblical doctrine is being taught .

In private conversation we need to be careful How we comment about others. If someone asks us about certain speakers / TV evangelists. -- state our opinion Nicely. Who you like and why.

 

[Sosthenes]

No one needs to be 'naming and shaming false teachers' from the pulpit .. Do make sure that Sound , Biblical doctrine is being taught .

In private conversation we need to be careful How we comment about others. If someone asks us about certain speakers / TV evangelists. -- state our opinion Nicely. Who you like and why.

Sometimes the people who need to be named are in the pulpit. I was in a church that kicked out everyone.

The great commission says to go into all the world and to preach the gospel and to teach everything that God commanded people.

New International Version
So watch yourselves. "If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
-Luke 17:3

So the question is, whose authority are we under?

When we look at Church history through the words of Jesus, He says:

New International Version
Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols.
-Revelation 2:20

And it isn't different today.

New International Version
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
Ephesians 5:11

I was constantly shamed by people who were in Churches who knew better but wanted to fight over Basic Christian Doctrine and that is all we did was fight and all they had to do was read the Bible. They made me feel like I was bad.

King James Version
But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
-Ephesians 5:13

The Bible says this way is right and whoever does it makes the light of the world manifest. We're called the light of the world and light puts out the darkness.

And then if its wrong, we have to blame Jesus for gossiping behind the backs of the Pharisees, Herod, the teachers of the law and the Sadducees.

Being quiet is basically damage control for cult leaders and it makes me an accomplice because we're not correcting and teaching in righteousness

New International Version
If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them.
-James 4:17

The Bible has many examples of people who did what was right in their own eyes and let chaos rain because they had no clue to be better.

If someone wants Satan teaching our kids then you have to be quiet, behave and just let them teach and Satan will never teach us to do right.

New International Version
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, - 2 Timothy 3:16

And it is the people who snuck in who don't want to be exposed:

New International Version
Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
John 3:20

And it is because there are bad things going on in their lives and their friend's lives that they won't come to the light because they don't want to be exposed. That is why there is fighting against setting things right and if we can't set things right then it will never be right and i will not put my friends or family in a situation because something could happen to them and there is nothing you can do about it.

Do you feel safe at church?


So no. I would have to stop doing what God says to obey anything else or anything less and in the end, God is going to bring everything that was covered up into the light so you might as well fix it now.

New International Version
"So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known.
New International Version
What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.
Matthew 10:26-27

It is all going to be exposed when the books are open and everyone will have to give an account.

New International Version
So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.
-Romans 14:12

So our answer will be we didn't want to because we didn't want to follow.

 

[Sue D.]

Some of what you're saying depends on what denomination is being referred to. Baptist call their own pastors -- seems that Methodists / Presby / Lutherans have their pastors / elders assigned to their churches.

And no one is forced to stay in a particular church. Talking privately to a pastor , asking what they believe as a church. Share Your beliefs -- see what happens. If you don't believe that they are following Scripture -- they have the freedom to change and you have the freedom to leave.

And you're Also talking about church discipline -- another subject. -- if there Is a disagreement with another person in the church -- talk to them in private and see if a compromise can be reached. Agreeing to disagree. If it's a matter of another persons actions being unBiblical -- again -- talk to them in private about your concerns. Share Scripture with them. If they don't want to listen, then approach pastor or a deacon to approach With you. In a friendly manner. A back yard BBQ or something. Hopefully, when the person is questian realizes that someone Does care what they do -- that Might be all that's needed. And an offending person will Usually just stop going to said church and find one that's more liberal or works better for them.

And, yes, we ARe to go out to 'wherever' directed To share the Gospel unto salvation. Know what we believe and why we believe it.

We all have our sphere of influence. How are We living Our lives. Are We seeing negativity all around us?

And it's not a matter of Not Wanting to follow Christ. It Can be a matter of ........ you fill in the blank.

I've known people who 'land' on a passage of Scripture and 'preach and preach' that passage -- and those who don't Agree -- are somehow being rebellious or 'whatever'.

We aren't the Holy Spirit for other people -- only for ourselves.

 

[hopefulson]

As true born again Christians who believe and obey the uncorrupted Gospel of the Lord Jesus and Salvation through his shed blood?
As a duty to Almighty God's, both name and shame obviously corrupt heretics?

Be Blessed
Alan McDougall

I think you have a duty to name but I personally would stay away from the shame, only because shame does the devil's work and it is a violent act to shame someone but we can't lower The Lord's standards. Remember the Harry Truman line ( I don't give them hell I just tell them the truth and it sounds like hell.)