As true born again Christians must or should we name and shame heretics?

[JerryfromMass]

JerryfromMass is on the right path. Due to the fact that you probably will not know this person and may not realize that God COULD BE having this person in a position to learn (or have the proper seeds planted) the "reasoning" with appropriate arguments (like Paul did at Mars Hill) is the way to go. However, not all are called to be apologists and we must be careful we are not incorrectly judging them based on our denominational theology.

So true. Rupert Meldenius' oft quoted statement on doctrinal disputes comes to mind: In essentials unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things charity.

 

[twcstp111]

Heretic:

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.

Similar:
dissident
dissenter
nonconformist
unorthodox thinker
heterodox thinker
apostate
freethinker
iconoclast
schismatic
renegade
disruptor
skeptic
agnostic
atheist
nontheist
nonbeliever
unbeliever
idolater
idolatress
pagan
heathen
separatist
sectarian
revisionist
tergiversator
recreant
recusant
nullifidian
paynim

Opposite:
conformist
believer

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

 

[twcstp111]

'Heretics' has such a broad net,

could you show me an example of a real heretic?

Check for love, and consider, cause a real heretic sure as heck ain't going to be teaching love to others. I would consider something like authoritarianism to be real heresy, cause it's loveless.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism:

1. the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
   • lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others.

How many wars have occurred just because somebody said 'My god is the true god, not your god' 'my spirit is the real spirit, not your spirit' 'my mind has the true answers not your mind' and then gone and killed the other person? Altogether denying the true God, Spirit, and Mind, which is love, justice, and liberty. In the first place, if neither of them can prove that their religion or teachings are surely more true than the other, it is literally pointless.

Take a look at romans:
Romans 101Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." [1]6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, `Who will ascend into heaven?' [2] " (that is, to bring Christ down)7"or `Who will descend into the deep?' [3] " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," [4] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." [5]12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [6]14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" [7]16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" [8]17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." [9]19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding." [10]20And Isaiah boldly says, "I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me." [11]21But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people." [12]

If a teaching has solid foundations built in the Spirit of love I would not consider it heretical at all; for instance, I doubt that Jesus would approach Buddha and tell him that he's going to hell cause of his teachings or his world view, cause Buddha as we have read about him (see that? just as we have read about Jesus) taught peace and love, joy, serenity, harmony, and righteousness, so who is going destroy one of the two religions?

if someone were to argue with me that Buddhism is wrong and Christianity is right, or vice-versa, then they would need solid verifiable evidence; in this case, they can prove that the teachings of (example) Buddhism are spiritually loveless or spiritually wicked to settle the dispute, but if they cannot base that claim of unrighteousness or wickedness next to verifiable proof that the teachings are loveless or wicked, then they cannot charged.

See, what I am saying here is this: it is not about the names or the religions or the practices, it is about the Spirit in the goings:
Love Fulfills the Law
…9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

[twcstp111]

Now, if you can prove this to a heretic, you can prove also that they and every other religion sure are heresy:
8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," [4] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Now then,
who can make sense of this?

 

[JerryfromMass]

'Heretics' has such a broad net,

could you show me an example of a real heretic?

Check for love, and consider, cause a real heretic sure as heck ain't going to be teaching love to others. I would consider something like authoritarianism to be real heresy, cause it's loveless.

au·thor·i·tar·i·an·ism:

1. the enforcement or advocacy of strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom.
   • lack of concern for the wishes or opinions of others.

How many wars have occurred just because somebody said 'My god is the true god, not your god' 'my spirit is the real spirit, not your spirit' 'my mind has the true answers not your mind' and then gone and killed the other person? Altogether denying the true God, Spirit, and Mind, which is love, justice, and liberty. In the first place, if neither of them can prove that their religion or teachings are surely more true than the other, it is literally pointless.

Take a look at romans:
Romans 101Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.2For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.5Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." [1]6But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, `Who will ascend into heaven?' [2] " (that is, to bring Christ down)7"or `Who will descend into the deep?' [3] " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," [4] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." [5]12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,13for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [6]14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?15And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" [7]16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" [8]17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." [9]19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, "I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding." [10]20And Isaiah boldly says, "I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me." [11]21But concerning Israel he says, "All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people." [12]

If a teaching has solid foundations built in the Spirit of love I would not consider it heretical at all; for instance, I doubt that Jesus would approach Buddha and tell him that he's going to hell cause of his teachings or his world view, cause Buddha as we have read about him (see that? just as we have read about Jesus) taught peace and love, joy, serenity, harmony, and righteousness, so who is going destroy one of the two religions?

if someone were to argue with me that Buddhism is wrong and Christianity is right, or vice-versa, then they would need solid verifiable evidence; in this case, they can prove that the teachings of (example) Buddhism are spiritually loveless or spiritually wicked to settle the dispute, but if they cannot base that claim of unrighteousness or wickedness next to verifiable proof that the teachings are loveless or wicked, then they cannot charged.

See, what I am saying here is this: it is not about the names or the religions or the practices, it is about the Spirit in the goings:
Love Fulfills the Law
…9The commandments “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and any other commandments, are summed up in this one decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

You must ask yourself: is there absolute truth? Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life", all others and their teachings are something else, perhaps loving, but still something less than Jesus. Buddha died, was buried, and was resurrected from the grave on the third day ... I'm sorry, that's not true. Buddha's body was cremated and his ashes buried somewhere in China, and remain there today. Only Jesus saves: there is no other.

 

[twcstp111]

You must ask yourself: is there absolute truth? Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life", all others and their teachings are something else, perhaps loving, but still something less than Jesus. Buddha died, was buried, and was resurrected from the grave on the third day ... I'm sorry, that's not true. Buddha's body was cremated and his ashes buried somewhere in China, and remain there today. Only Jesus saves: there is no other.

Truthfully, that makes no sense at all to me and neither can I verify it, see it, or show it.

I know that love is absolute truth, otherwise you and I wouldn't be here; eating food is absolute truth; getting burned sticking your hand in fire is absolute truth, and so on.

 

[Brad Huber]

We see through a dark glass of our own soul, what love is and isnt, and it focuses on the flesh all too often. The flesh is just a temporary vessel, not who we are, not our eternal soul, God knows this and being God, acts upon it in ways that seem out of kilter with what the world sees and thinks. Just because we dont see the wisdom in God allowing us to suffer, in allowing hypocrites to thrive, etc, doesnt mean that God is evil or doesnt care. Its just the opposite. A father who loves his children will discipline them sometimes to set them on the better path. Likewise God doesnt often kill people (or even punish them seemingly) for lying, stealing, or cheating, for He shows compassion to our bodies of flesh. If you want compassion and forgiveness from the Lord, you better expect that others will receive it also, even if you dont think they deserve it. The book of Job is good at showing this.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Truthfully, that makes no sense at all to me and neither can I verify it, see it, or show it.

I know that love is absolute truth, otherwise you and I wouldn't be here; eating food is absolute truth; getting burned sticking your hand in fire is absolute truth, and so on.

If the truth you're seeking is only that which your five senses experience, you'll find it. If the truth you seek is something more, to wit: the path to salvation and everlasting life, then it is Jesus.

There is the broad way through the wide gate that leads to eternal destruction, of which universalism is a part. Then there is the narrow way through the strait gate that leads to eternal life, which is Jesus.

 

[backNforth]

As true born again Christians must or should we name and shame heretics?

As always, we seek balance in scripture to understand application of
doctrine. While it is true that much New Testament teaching, including the
Lord's examples of "turning the other cheek", "forgive them for they know
not what they do", etc. are the higher law to be practiced by Christians, we
also note examples where believers are given authority to act in an
offensive manner:

Read what Paul brought upon Elymas the sorcerer when he interfered with the
work of the Gospel in Acts 13:

"9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his
eyes on him,

10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the
devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the
right ways of the Lord?

11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be
blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a
mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the
hand."

In his second epistle to Timothy, Paul record this insight:

"14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him
according to his works:

15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words. {our
words: or, our preachings

16 At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me: I pray
God that it may not be laid to their charge."

This verse is notable in how Paul, on one hand, acts in an imprecatory
manner against the coppersmith, while interceding for those who failed to
stand up for him (Paul). This same Alexander is also named in 1Timothy 1:20,
along with Hymeneus as a blasphemer whom Paul there turns over to Satan.

What appears to be a rather consistent pattern in scripture is the model of
those whom we would label "reprobate"---according to Webster, "one morally
abandoned or lost". Imprecatory action would be preceded by much
intercession, striving with and attempts to bring a person to right
standing. This was the model given by Christ in Matthew 18:7-20.

As Christians, we do not curse out of personal vengeance, hatred or malice,
but strive with the person for a season until it becomes apparent that the
person will not turn from unrighteousness. It also appears that there are
special circumstances whereby we may deal with one in an imprecatory
fashion:

1.) Where the work of the gospel is impeded and the will of God would be
opposed.

2.) Where there appears to be no repentance, contrition or desire to turn
from a path of unrighteousness.

3.) Where legal remedies are exhausted WITHOUT justice and the work and/or will of God is opposed.

In situations requiring examination of an imprecatory action, it would be my
counsel to anyone to examine deliberately the scriptures and apply the
examples outline by Jesus and his followers. I believe the three points
listed above will become obvious.

One final point: during the height of the tribulation, we see the two
witnesses given power that:

" ... if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and
devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this
manner be killed."

Depending on how you interpret WHO the two witnesses are, it becomes apparent
that the power of Elijah will be restored in some fashion to tribulation
saints (see 2Kings 2).

-- Randy

 

[Christina2000]

As true born again Christians who believe and obey the uncorrupted Gospel of the Lord Jesus and Salvation through his shed blood?
As a duty to Almighty God's, both name and shame obviously corrupt heretics?

Be Blessed
Alan McDougall

I wouldn't. I think living the best we can, setting a good example and talking to people to win hearts and minds gently is the way. Be guided by the Holy Spirit.

I dislike argument myself, people are usually a lot cleverer than me and seem to have answers to everything. In the end, God will judge all.