Be Patient You're Not Perfect Yet

[RJ]

Exodus 33:20 But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live."
Moses had been up on Mount Sinai to visit God on several occasions. On one of those times Moses couldn't stand it anymore and asked God to allow him to see all of God's glory. God told Moses to get up on an adjacent rock, that he would put his hand over Moses and when he passed by, he would release his hand and just let Moses see his backside, for he said that no mortal man could see his face and live!

1 Corinthians 13 : 8-12 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part:10but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.12For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
Many Christians talk about how they longer can sin. Maybe once in a awhile but to please God, you would have to be without sin 24/7 for the rest of you life, so with out sin no, but without condemnation, most definitely. Romans 8:1
But be patient , your time is coming soon. When you die, you will finally see God "face to face" and you will know him as well as he knows you, and now, that will be perfection!

 

[WaterRock]

Exodus 33:20 But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live."
Moses had been up on Mount Sinai to visit God on several occasions. On one of those times Moses couldn't stand it anymore and asked God to allow him to see all of God's glory. God told Moses to get up on an adjacent rock, that he would put his hand over Moses and when he passed by, he would release his hand and just let Moses see his backside, for he said that no mortal man could see his face and live!

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Gen 32:30
So did Jacob actually see God face to face?

Since he that is born of the flesh is flesh, an he that is born of the Spirit is spirit, then he that is born of the Spirit and Word is Spirit. "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father." John 6:46

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.1 Tim 3:16

 

[RJ]

And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved. Gen 32:30
So did Jacob actually see God face to face?

• Which one of us knows completely, for God tells that we only know in part like looking through a glass dimly?
• I can only go by what God told Moses, because Moses was up close and personal with God. Moses was in the physical, no vision, and God WAS in his presence.
• As far as Jacob and his statement, scripture is clear that we are talking about Jacob's vision, for which he was not in the actual presence of God as Moses was.
• This was significant to the Jew because "Face to Face" was a frightening thing for them. They had no concept of being perfected, in the spiritual presence of God and seeing him truly face to face for the first time as spelled out in 1 Cor 13.

 

[Curtis]

• Which one of us knows completely, for God tells that we only know in part like looking through a glass dimly?
• I can only go by what God told Moses, because Moses was up close and personal with God. Moses was in the physical, no vision, and God WAS in his presence.
• As far as Jacob and his statement, scripture is clear that we are talking about Jacob's vision, for which he was not in the actual presence of God as Moses was.
• This was significant to the Jew because "Face to Face" was a frightening thing for them. They had no concept of being perfected, in the spiritual presence of God and seeing him truly face to face for the first time as spelled out in 1 Cor 13.

Brother what is the "perfect" that this scripture is talking about? Is it not talking about becoming a man? A child can only see through a glass darkly, but a man can see clearly. Is it possible to become a mature Christian in this life to see clearly?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Exodus 33:20 But you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live."
Moses had been up on Mount Sinai to visit God on several occasions. On one of those times Moses couldn't stand it anymore and asked God to allow him to see all of God's glory. God told Moses to get up on an adjacent rock, that he would put his hand over Moses and when he passed by, he would release his hand and just let Moses see his backside, for he said that no mortal man could see his face and live!

1 Corinthians 13 : 8-12 9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part:10but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.11When I was a child, I spake as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things.12For now we see in a mirror, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I have been known.
Many Christians talk about how they longer can sin. Maybe once in a awhile but to please God, you would have to be without sin 24/7 for the rest of you life, so with out sin no, but without condemnation, most definitely. Romans 8:1
But be patient , your time is coming soon. When you die, you will finally see God "face to face" and you will know him as well as he knows you, and now, that will be perfection!

Hello Rj,
You said ((( please God, you would have to be without sin 24/7 ))) Where did this thought come from ? I mean what exactly are you saying here ? I do not want to take this in the wrong direction.

 

[RJ]

Brother what is the "perfect" that this scripture is talking about?

Like I am trying to say, this perfect only occurs after our physical death, when we are perfected and glorified before God. Then and only then can we see God "face to face" and know him as well as he knows us. This is the message of that part of 1 COR 13! Remember, God is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth!

 

[RJ]

Hello Rj,
You said ((( please God, you would have to be without sin 24/7 ))) Where did this thought come from ? I mean what exactly are you saying here ? I do not want to take this in the wrong direction.

Simple:

• Anyone who says that they can be without sin , by himself and all the time, does not have the truth in him!
  
• You , yourself alone can not please God 24/7. To be able to do that alone, would require you to be perfect all the time, we know that is not possible. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 ...The same would hold true for sin
• We can't do it, but with Christ in us, God sees his perfection and only credits us with perfection.

 

[Curtis]

Like I am trying to say, this perfect only occurs after our physical death, when we are perfected and glorified before God. Then and only then can we see God "face to face" and know him as well as he knows us. This is the message of that part of 1 COR 13! Remember, God is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth!

Is not the purpose of the five fold ministry to "perfect" the saints? Their ministry will continue in the Church until it has made the Church unto a "perfect" man.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

 

[amadeus2]

Like I am trying to say, this perfect only occurs after our physical death, when we are perfected and glorified before God. Then and only then can we see God "face to face" and know him as well as he knows us. This is the message of that part of 1 COR 13! Remember, God is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth!

"Where does scripture say that "this perfect" will only come after physical death? Has God ever so limited Himself, or is it not man who is limiting God?

Are we so different than the Israelites?

Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

Surely, because we have not personally seen it does not mean that it cannot be so? Weren't we all born blind? Did we all receive perfect vision with the first touch or is another touch needed?

 

[RJ]

Y

"Where does scripture say that "this perfect" will only come after physical death? Has God ever so limited Himself, or is it not man who is limiting God?

• Your perfection does not come from you but God alone through the presence of his son through you.
• He is the vine and you are the branch, without him you can do nothing.
• 1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood

My dear brother, everything about us is imperfect. But with God in us, we are credited with his perfection now. As much as we would think or like we can not see God. face to face, in the physical world and live, that is his command. But there will come a time, when fully in the spiritual real where God is, we will be able to look at him face to face and know him perfectly. It is man which, by his nature, is the limiting factor. Right now, even with Christ in us, we only know in part! Are you capable of knowing everything?...Of course not! But there will come a time when you will, not in this life but the next......you are not perfect yet, just credited with it . Not until you die your physical death will you be with God and perfected in ihis presence!

 

[Curtis]

Y

• Your perfection does not come from you but God alone through the presence of his son through you.
• He is the vine and you are the branch, without him you can do nothing.
• 1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood

My dear brother, everything about us is imperfect. But with God in us, we are credited with his perfection now. As much as we would think or like we can not see God. face to face, in the physical world and live, that is his command. But there will come a time, when fully in the spiritual real where God is, we will be able to look at him face to face and know him perfectly. It is man which, by his nature, is the limiting factor. Right now, even with Christ in us, we only know in part! Are you capable of knowing everything?...Of course not! But there will come a time when you will, not in this life but the next......you are not perfect yet, just credited with it . Not until you die your physical death will you be with God and perfected in ihis presence!

Are we not to "look" into the mirror and see the Glory of God, there by we are changed into that same image?

2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[RJ]

Is not the purpose of the five fold ministry to "perfect" the saints? Their ministry will continue in the Church until it has made the Church unto a "perfect" man.

If you think that you are perfect right now, you fool yourself and pride has set in. There is no way for you to be sinless yourself. only with Christ in you does God credit you with sinlessness. You are a Saint, I am a Saint and the closest you can come to perfection is with Christ's perfection through you. The perfect Saint is as close as you can come and that is because you are a born again Christian with Christ in you. You can not completely enter Gods realm and see him face to face until you die your physical death and join God in the spiritual realm, upon your total perfection!..."when the imperfect is gone and the perfect comes"!

 

[RJ]

Are we not to "look" into the mirror and see the Glory of God, there by we are changed into that same image?

No, "we look in the mirror dimly"..."we only know or prophecy in part now"...."but, then when perfection comes, we fill see face to face and know fully"!
You are not perfect but God credits you with perfection and that is as close as you can come!
Remember, God said he credited Abraham with righteousness...he did not say Abraham was righteous by himself!

 

[Curtis]

If you think that you are perfect right now, you fool yourself and pride has set in. There is no way for you to be sinless yourself. only with Christ in you does God credit you with sinlessness. You are a Saint, I am a Saint and the closest you can come to perfection is with Christ's perfection through you. The perfect Saint is as close as you can come and that is because you are a born again Christian with Christ in you. You can not completely enter Gods realm and see him face to face until you die your physical death and join God in the spiritual realm, upon your total perfection!..."when the imperfect is gone and the perfect comes"!

Perfect has nothing to do with being sinless, it has to becoming "mature". Surely we can become mature in our understanding in this life. Scriptures tells us this in the scripture you posted......

1Cor 13:10.. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Cor 13:11.. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

It is the "child" that sees through a glass darkly, not the mature man!!! Why do you think he even mentions this. Our ability to see clearly is based on our understanding of scriptures

Can you not see the progression here? the child sees darkly, but then the man sees clearly?
.
1Cor 13:12.. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

[RJ]

Perfect has nothing to do with being sinless

• Oh really:laugh:...that is a new one on me!
• 8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. ......you think a child uses prophecies, uses tongues...has advanced knowledge about God?
• What do you think "passes away "means?

 

[Curtis]

• Oh really:laugh:...that is a new one on me!
• 8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. ......you think a child uses prophecies, uses tongues...has advanced knowledge about God?
• What do you think "passes away "means?

We are not talking about a man being a child. All new believers start out as a child in their understanding. They can not see the plans and purposes of God, and when God reveals these things to them he is also revealing him self since God is the Word. God told Abraham to walk before him and be thou "perfect". Abraham was along way from being "sinless", yet he was "perfect" in his understanding, and in his faith towards his God.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Do you think the Lord God would tell someone to be perfect, and that person not being able to be it? That would not be very encouraging would it?
The Holy Spirit teaches his Church in "parts". One part at a time just like putting a jigsaw puzzle together. Taking one part of a puzzle and looking at it is the same as seeing through a "glass darkly" One piece is not enough to get the whole picture! After many pieces have been placed next to each other that image becomes very "clear"!!!

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

 

[RJ]

We are not talking about a man being a child. All new believers start out as a child in their understanding. They can not see the plans and purposes of God, and when God reveals these things to them he is also revealing him self since God is the Word. God told Abraham to walk before him and be thou "perfect". Abraham was along way from being "sinless", yet he was "perfect" in his understanding, and in his faith towards his God.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Do you think the Lord God would tell someone to be perfect, and that person not being able to be it? That would not be very encouraging would it?
The Holy Spirit teaches his Church in "parts". One part at a time just like putting a jigsaw puzzle together. Taking one part of a puzzle and looking at it is the same as seeing through a "glass darkly" One piece is not enough to get the whole picture! After many pieces have been placed next to each other that image becomes very "clear"!!!

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

• You still didn't answer the question....what does "pass away" mean in the 1 COR 13 verses?
• Please answer the above and answer this: Was Abraham himself righteous or did God credit him with righteousness?

 

[Curtis]

• You still didn't answer the question....what does "pass away" mean in the 1 COR 13 verses?
• Please answer the above and answer this: Was Abraham himself righteous or did God credit him with righteousness?

What passes away is our child like behavior, and thinking processes. These are childish things. Does a Christian stay in diapers his whole life? Did not the Apostle Paul tell a group of people that they needed milk instead of the "strong" meat of the Word of God because they could not bear it?
Answer me this, "did Abraham walk "perfect" with God?" Did he actually do what the Lord told him to? Was Abraham sinless?

 

[RJ]

What passes away is our child like behavior, and thinking processes. These are childish things. Does a Christian stay in diapers his whole life? Did not the Apostle Paul tell a group of people that they needed milk instead of the "strong" meat of the Word of God because they could not bear it?
Answer me this, "did Abraham walk "perfect" with God?" Did he actually do what the Lord told him to? Was Abraham sinless?

O.K., it is the old answer a question with a question!
I see that we don't agree after all. We will just have to agree to disagree!
Hopefully, we can agree that Jesus is Lord and Savior!

 

[amadeus2]

Y

• Your perfection does not come from you but God alone through the presence of his son through you.
• He is the vine and you are the branch, without him you can do nothing.
• 1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood

My dear brother, everything about us is imperfect. But with God in us, we are credited with his perfection now. As much as we would think or like we can not see God. face to face, in the physical world and live, that is his command. But there will come a time, when fully in the spiritual real where God is, we will be able to look at him face to face and know him perfectly. It is man which, by his nature, is the limiting factor. Right now, even with Christ in us, we only know in part! Are you capable of knowing everything?...Of course not! But there will come a time when you will, not in this life but the next......you are not perfect yet, just credited with it . Not until you die your physical death will you be with God and perfected in ihis presence!

We were born incomplete, but our lack of perfection is only as God sees perfection when He looks at our hearts. Do not use man's definition of perfect to decide. God looks at where we are and what we have at the moment. Job was called perfect in the very first verse of the first chapter of that book. He was perfect to God, but he needed to grow and in the process he showed some errors. Did these make him imperfect to God? Considering who was required to make an offering in the final chapter of the book and who was not, I would reconsider this if I were you. As I see it your position makes out Jesus, the Truth, to be a liar. He is not.

"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26

Consider that even Jesus who never sinned was also incomplete until he completed his course. But then he said, "It is finished".

If we have a negative faith then, what will be the result?
"...According to your faith be it unto you." Matt 9:29

I don't believe you'll find a scripture that reads perfection in the eyes of God cannot or will not occur until after physical death. But... what will happen will be according to your faith whether it is faith in God or a lack thereof.

Give God the glory!