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Be Patient You're Not Perfect Yet

  • Thread starter Thread starter RJ
  • Start date Start date
I would reconsider this if I were you. As I see it your position makes out Jesus, the Truth, to be a liar. He is not.
If you saying, I make Jesus out to be a liar, you are shameful but I forgive you!
"But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:26
My point exactly....it is not your perfection but the perfection of God in you!
If we have a negative faith then, what will be the result?
May I ask who you are implying that has a negative faith?
Give God the glory!
I have always and said many a time it is all about God and none of us!
I don't believe you'll find a scripture that reads perfection in the eyes of God cannot or will not occur until after physical death
Credited perfection absolutely.....actual perfection, no!
@amadeus2 , please answer one question: Was Abraham righteous from his self or did God credit him with righteousness?
 
If you saying, I make Jesus out to be a liar, you are shameful but I forgive you!

I said 'as I see it'. What do I really know about how you see it? That is between you and God and He hasn't shared everything with me.

My point exactly....it is not your perfection but the perfection of God in you!

Amen! God increases the good in us and decreases the evil, if we will allow Him to work. The only limitation is always whether or not we allow Him unrestricted reins. The reins were give to us, but we have to give them back as often and continuously as possible: "Pray without ceasing." "Rejoice in the Lord always."

May I ask who you are implying that has a negative faith?

I am implying nothing about anyone in particular. Only God is able to see all of every heart always.

I have always and said many a time it is all about God and none of us!

Amen!

Credited perfection absolutely.....actual perfection, no!

What is "actual perfection" according to God? Don't use a man's or a dictionary's definition. Use only scripture. And don't give me your answer. As Jesus put it "...Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?" Luke 12:14

@amadeus2 , please answer one question: Was Abraham righteous from his self or did God credit him with righteousness?

Is righteousness equal to perfection?

I don't have all of your answers for you. I don't even have all of my answers for me.

I have received many answers over the years through men. Some of them I still retain but many of them have been shed. But... God is not finished with me yet.
 
  1. That is between you and God and He hasn't shared everything with me.
That's a relief!
What is "actual perfection" according to God?
1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
  • When perfect comes
  • We now see in a mirror dimly. The mirror of that day was a polished piece of brass....at best it was a blurry, distorted view of the truth.
  • But now, after perfection, you will see God face to face. You can not see God face to face in your human condition. The Jews knew this since God told Moses on Mt. Sinai that no man could look God in the face and live, not even Moses, They knew God meant, while in the physical!
  • God said he was spirit. When you die your physical death,you will go to the spirit world and be perfected in the presence of God and then and only then will you finally be perfect and able to fully coexist with God and then know fully! When will you know fully brother, when you have long left this world and in the presence of God!
 
That's a relief!

1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
  • When perfect comes
  • We now see in a mirror dimly. The mirror of that day was a polished piece of brass....at best it was a blurry, distorted view of the truth.
  • But now, after perfection, you will see God face to face. You can not see God face to face in your human condition. The Jews knew this since God told Moses on Mt. Sinai that no man could look God in the face and live, not even Moses, They knew God meant, while in the physical!
  • God said he was spirit. When you die your physical death,you will go to the spirit world and be perfected in the presence of God and then and only then will you finally be perfect and able to fully coexist with God and then know fully! When will you know fully brother, when you have long left this world and in the presence of God!

How is this possible?

3Jn 1:11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
 
Simple:
  • Anyone who says that they can be without sin , by himself and all the time, does not have the truth in him!
  • You , yourself alone can not please God 24/7. To be able to do that alone, would require you to be perfect all the time, we know that is not possible. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 ...The same would hold true for sin
  • We can't do it, but with Christ in us, God sees his perfection and only credits us with perfection.

Thank YOU for taking the time to answer but none of that goes together or gives any claim to what you said,
You are speaking as if under the law which is not so. Grace and the blood Of Jesus. When God looks at us He see's Jesus not our sins. A believer can please God 24/7/365 if they choose to.
So again could you explain to me why you think this.
 
If you think that you are perfect right now, you fool yourself and pride has set in. There is no way for you to be sinless yourself. only with Christ in you does God credit you with sinlessness. You are a Saint, I am a Saint and the closest you can come to perfection is with Christ's perfection through you. The perfect Saint is as close as you can come and that is because you are a born again Christian with Christ in you. You can not completely enter Gods realm and see him face to face until you die your physical death and join God in the spiritual realm, upon your total perfection!..."when the imperfect is gone and the perfect comes"!

This entire perfect thing is dumb..........God is perfect............Nothing else....
 
You are speaking as if under the law
This is just simply a very false statement / assumption!
Nothing in my previous statement could possibly misinterpreted as adhering to the law!; just the opposite, by grace alone!
You're in "left field" brotha!
So again could you explain to me why you think this.
  • This is ridiculous!:eek::rolleyes: What I am saying and have said @Wired 4 Fishen for the last 11 years at TJ is YOU, YOURSELF @Wired 4 Fishen are not perfect right now, but the one who is in you is and because God sees him in you, he imputes you with Righteousness, Holiness and Blamelessness.....NOT yours exactly but his ( Jesus)....all God sees is Jesus!!!!!:eek:
  • Now if you can't see all of this...Righteous, Holiness and Blameless , credited to us as the same as perfection credited to us, then we will have to agree to disagree!
 
I am implying nothing about anyone in particular.
Well, you have been doing a pretty good job of quoting Me, Brother!:confused:
Is righteousness equal to perfection?

I don't have all of your answers for you. I don't even have all of my answers for me.

I have received many answers over the years through men. Some of them I still retain but many of them have been shed. But... God is not finished with me yet.
Yes sir, but you make some mighty bold statements lately, not be able to back them up.
God imputes (credits) you with being Holy, Righteous and Blameless........not you personally but because of the one in you is!!! Now, if you don't equate the combination of those three as being perfect and coupled with the "coming perfection" interpretation in 1 COR 13, well, we are just not on the same page....maybe not even in the same universe!
 
This is just simply a very false statement / assumption!
Nothing in my previous statement could possibly misinterpreted as adhering to the law!; just the opposite, by grace alone!
You're in "left field" brotha!

  • This is ridiculous!:eek::rolleyes: What I am saying and have said @Wired 4 Fishen for the last 11 years at TJ is YOU, YOURSELF @Wired 4 Fishen are not perfect right now, but the one who is in you is and because God sees him in you, he imputes you with Righteousness, Holiness and Blamelessness.....NOT yours exactly but his ( Jesus)....all God sees is Jesus!!!!!:eek:
  • Now if you can't see all of this...Righteous, Holiness and Blameless , credited to us as the same as perfection credited to us, then we will have to agree to disagree!
Brother, do you think there will ever be a time in which God the Father does not see Jesus in us as our righteousness?
 
That's a relief!

1 Corinthians 13: 9-12 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways.12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
  • When perfect comes
  • We now see in a mirror dimly. The mirror of that day was a polished piece of brass....at best it was a blurry, distorted view of the truth.
  • But now, after perfection, you will see God face to face. You can not see God face to face in your human condition. The Jews knew this since God told Moses on Mt. Sinai that no man could look God in the face and live, not even Moses, They knew God meant, while in the physical!
Hmmm!?!? Moses could not, but Jesus brought something more, did he not?

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

If we see something good after being touched once, would not we be able to see something very good or better after each subsequent touch? Is this not moving from the "through a glass, darkly" vision toward the "face to face" vision? Who is to say that a man cannot get there before the dirt is thrown over his face? What scripture says there will be another time period after this "course" (Acts 20:24, II Tim 4:7) is finished for us? Isn't the here and now our allotted time to overcome as Jesus overcame?

When is it that the "old man" is completely dead? When is it that the "new man" is born? When is it that the "new man" is mature? Consider Jesus, who was tempted in all points as we are:

"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man." Luke 2:52

Jesus grew because, although he was always without sin, he was nonetheless incomplete until he experienced all that was necessary as a man and had overcome of his own world of his own flesh [John 16:33] and until he suffered all that he was to suffer [John 19:30]. Our time of overcoming is not in the next world but in this one where we are tempted as Jesus was tempted.

God said he was spirit. When you die your physical death,you will go to the spirit world

Where is this spirit world?

and be perfected in the presence of God and then and only then will you finally be perfect and able to fully coexist with God and then know fully!


If we are growing as Jesus was growing, is this not the "new" "inner man" that is growing? If we have already been "born again" (or from above), was the "new man" not born while we were here in this flesh before the natural demise of this flesh? Is not the test here? Is not the temptation here? Is not the growth here? Are not the "eyes to see" to be here? What is that will remain to be done after the dirt is thrown on our faces? As the flesh of Jesus died, did he not say "it is finished"? Why would our "course" in this flesh be different? Can we not be like him here? Is that an impossible task for God?

If we cannot see God before natural death, why did Jesus ask this question?

"...Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?" John 14:9


Then will you know fully brother, when you have long left this world and in the presence of God!
Is the old world planet Earth or is it this little lump of flesh which houses the "old man" and the "new man"? The one is to decrease while the other is to increase, or..? We are to be dying daily, not just looking the day that this body of flesh breathes it last bit of oxygen.
 
This is just simply a very false statement / assumption!
Nothing in my previous statement could possibly misinterpreted as adhering to the law!; just the opposite, by grace alone!
You're in "left field" brotha!

  • This is ridiculous!:eek::rolleyes: What I am saying and have said @Wired 4 Fishen for the last 11 years at TJ is YOU, YOURSELF @Wired 4 Fishen are not perfect right now, but the one who is in you is and because God sees him in you, he imputes you with Righteousness, Holiness and Blamelessness.....NOT yours exactly but his ( Jesus)....all God sees is Jesus!!!!!:eek:
  • Now if you can't see all of this...Righteous, Holiness and Blameless , credited to us as the same as perfection credited to us, then we will have to agree to disagree!

You have seemed to change the way you say things in each of your replies. I say this because each time some one replies from your OP, you come back with it tweeked a little here and there as if this is what was said all along. Perhaps your intentions were but your wording obviously was not.
 
Brother, do you think there will ever be a time in which God the Father does not see Jesus in us as our righteousness?
That certainly is a different question, that I have never thought about before.:glasses:
I think there will be a time, in heaven, where it won't matter!
But, we don't fully understand now but we all know that the Bible tells us that we are in Jesus / God and he is in us. I somehow think that won't be any different then, just better, perfect...more complete.... be a more complete All-In-One!
The most important thing is the now, and now God has devised a plan to get inside us and provide the necessary perfection / protection to defeat the Devil and guarantee his promise of the hope of eternity.
 
That certainly is a different question, that I have never thought about before.:glasses:
I think there will be a time, in heaven, where it won't matter!
But, we don't fully understand now but we all know that the Bible tells us that we are in Jesus / God and he is in us. I somehow think that won't be any different then, just better, perfect...more complete.... be a more complete All-In-One!
The most important thing is the now, and now God has devised a plan to get inside us and provide the necessary perfection / protection to defeat the Devil and guarantee his promise of the hope of eternity.
Brother, there will never be a time when we will be able to stand in our own righteousness. Jesus Christ will forever be our new life who alone is perfect and our righteousness in us. This was the only way for an imperfect being to live inside a perfect being! God's grace will always be required through out eternity for God to be able to show us his unsearchable love in his kindness through Jesus Christ!

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
 
You have seemed to change the way you say things in each of your replies. I say this because each time some one replies from your OP, you come back with it tweeked a little here and there as if this is what was said all along. Perhaps your intentions were but your wording obviously was not.
You need to show me what you are talking about otherwise it makes absolutely no sense!
 
Brother, there will never be a time when we will be able to stand in our own righteousness. Jesus Christ will forever be new life who alone is perfect and our righteousness in us. This is the only way for an imperfect being live inside a perfect being! God's grace will always be required through out eternity for God to be able to show us his unsearchable love in his kindness through Jesus Christ!

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Great!
 
Well, you have been doing a pretty good job of quoting Me, Brother!:confused:

Well each of us does want to be right, whether are or not we. It is the nature of the beast of that "old man" of us:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

We must remember the 2nd phrase of that verse!

Yes sir, but you make some mighty bold statements lately, not be able to back them up.

If I have unnecessarily offended, please forgive me and pray for me to do better.

God imputes (credits) you with being Holy, Righteous and Blameless........not you personally but because of the one in you is!!! Now, if you don't equate the combination of those three as being perfect and coupled with the "coming perfection" interpretation in 1 COR 13, well, we are just not on the same page....maybe not even in the same universe!

Perhaps the page is different, but God understands where each of us is, even when we do not ourselves. Give God the glory!
 
This was the only way for an imperfect being to live inside a perfect being!
I am not sure where you are going with this. Now we are talking about, at least I am....talking about spiritual life after physical death. After which, you are in heaven and perfect. No imperfection can coexist with God in heaven, that would be and oxymoron!
 
I am not sure where you are going with this. Now we are talking about, at least I am....talking about spiritual life after physical death. After which, you are in heaven and perfect. No imperfection can coexist with God in heaven, that would be and oxymoron!
This is why "even when we were dead in sins God raised us up and has made us sit together in Heavenly places in Christ".(Eph 2 6:) We are already sitting in Heavenly places!!!( Why are we not experiencing this in our lives? Because we do not believe it.You can not experience anything about God's Kingdom beyond your faith. Your faith limits what you can experience in this life. All things are possible to those who believe.I am talking about spiritual life in this life!
 
This is why "even when we were dead in sins God raised us up and has made us sit together in Heavenly places in Christ".(Eph 2 6:) We are already sitting in Heavenly places!!!(
OK, I have stated as such on many occasions over the years! So, I still don't know what your point / position is?
All things are possible to those who believe.I am talking about spiritual life in this life!
Yes, yes, yes! But you can't experience this now perfectly.....not until you are in heaven and your sanctification is complete! When your perfection is complete! Until then, you only live and understand this perfection in part, otherwise you, while on earth you would be absolute perfection and no need of heaven! Heaven and perfection can only be experienced in it's fullness in heaven and in the spiritual realm as a fully spiritual being!
 
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