Be Patient You're Not Perfect Yet

[Curtis]

OK, I have stated as such on many occasions over the years! So, I still don't know what your point / position is?

Yes, yes, yes! But you can't experience this now perfectly.....not until you are in heaven and your sanctification is complete! When your perfection is complete! Until then, you only live and understand this perfection in part, otherwise you, while on earth you would be absolute perfection and no need of heaven! Heaven and perfection can only be experienced in it's fullness in heaven and in the spiritual realm as a fully spiritual being!

This is your position and I am hearing your faith that it is not possible to experience this until someday. I do not did believe that to be true. If scripture says we are seated on the right hand of God in Christ Jesus in Heavenly places, this is exactly what I believe!! Why would anyone disbelieve it?

 

[RJ]

If scripture says we are seated on the right hand of God in Christ Jesus in Heavenly places, this is exactly what I believe!! Why would anyone disbelieve it?

I believe it!

This is your position and I am hearing your faith that it is not possible to experience this until someday. I do not did believe that to be true

No, I am saying you can experience this to some degree now, but not fully and in completeness.........Huh....Are you saying that you @Curtis , that you are perfect in every way right now ? The same perfection you will have when you are fully in heaven?

 

[Curtis]

I believe it!

No, I am saying you can experience this to some degree now, but not fully and in completeness.........Huh....Are you saying that you @Curtis , that you are perfect in every way right now ? The same perfection you will have when you are fully in heaven?

I am not perfect, but the one who is perfect lives in all of us who believe! Don't forget we our self's will always need his perfection in us through out all eternity. Like I have already said Abraham walked "perfect" with his God. He was not sinless. It was his faith that allowed him to be perfect between God and him self. His believing was "perfect". The five fold ministry was given until we all speak the same thing and that all our believing is the same. That is being perfect!!! Being mature in our faith, and believing.

Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Rom 4:20 He (Abraham) staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

God told Abraham to walk and be perfect. Being perfect has absolutely nothing to do with being sinless. Being "perfect" has everything to do walking by faith!!!!
Abraham "staggered" not at the promises of God, but was "strong in faith" giving Glory to God!!!
Notice: "staggering" has to do with "walking"
Walking by faith is being perfect before our God.
If we are not believing his Word no matter what is says, then we are "staggering" and not walking perfectly with our God!!!

 

[RJ]

I am not perfect, but the one who is perfect lives in all of us who believe!

What a minute...you are taking my "punch line"!....where do we differ?

I am not perfect

So God says you will be perfect when you see him Face to Face and know fully, when is this?....when you are in heaven, not now!

Abraham walked "perfect" with his God. He was not sinless. It was his faith that allowed him to be perfect between God and him self.

The key point, while he was still in the human state, he himself was not perfect but GOD credited or imputed him with perfection...that is a big difference!

Being "perfect" has everything to do walking by faith!!!!

Again, he himself was not perfect in his physical sate but God credited him with perfection!

Walking by faith is being perfect before our God

No, in the present and now state, it is by your faith that God imputes perfection to you, not that you yourself are actually perfect.
You keep bringing up the five fold ministry. I essentially see that much of it is active today but Jesus is the cornerstone which was established, once and for all times, by his death, burial and resurrection. Other than that, I can't see any bearing with this on our discussion, That you are not perfect yet!

 

[Curtis]

What a minute...you are taking my "punch line"!....where do we differ?

So God says you will be perfect when you see him Face to Face and know fully, when is this?....when you are in heaven, not now!

The key point, while he was still in the human state, he himself was not perfect but GOD credited or imputed him with perfection...that is a big difference!

Again, he himself was not perfect in his physical sate but God credited him with perfection!

No, in the present and now state, it is by your faith that God imputes perfection to you, not that you yourself are actually perfect.
You keep bringing up the five fold ministry. I essentially see that much of it is active today but Jesus is the cornerstone which was established, once and for all times, by his death, burial and resurrection. Other than that, I can't see any bearing with this on our discussion, That you are not perfect yet!

You are still not getting it. Being perfect has nothing to do with being sinless.It has to do with faith in believing. The Bible does not say we will be sinless when we see him. It talks about being perfect, not sinless.
We have already gone over this. The Bible even tells us exactly what being perfect is, and I already showed you......

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

The perfect is turning from a "child" who speaks and thinks like a child, to a mature person (Man) who fully understands God's ways by faith.

Why do you think this is put here in scripture, just to take up space? He is explaining what the "perfect" is. Can't you see that?

 

[RJ]

The Bible does not say we will be sinless when we see him.

This says it all and looks to me as you are the one who doesn't get it! "Seeing him" is seeing God "Face to Face" and this won't happen until you are in his realm, the spiritual realm, and it is impossible for sin to exist in "His Realm"!! So, it is obvious to the average believer(except you perhaps) that sin is of the body. Romans 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. When you finally see God Face to Face, you live spiritually and there is no sin in you!

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Yes, when perfection comes, your imperfection and lack of understanding will be gone; your "BODY" will be dead and buried and all is left is your spirit and you are in heaven!

1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

Yes, I definitely see that you still think this way!

It talks about being perfect, not sinless

Huh!!! You can be perfect and still sinful?
When you first came to TJ, I thought we had a lot in common. I see now that we definitely don't!
I am done on this subject, we will just have to agree to disagree!

 

[Curtis]

[QUOTE="RJ, post: 255370, member: 18160"! "Seeing him" is seeing God "Face to Face" and this won't happen until you are in his realm, the spiritual realm,

![/QUOTE]

I don't know why you simply can not see what scripture clearly tells us. We are in the spirit!!

Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Right this second we are sitting in Heavenly places in Christ. Is Jesus in the spiritual realm?

Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Eternal life is NOT something God is going to confer on the Church in the future. It is already a done deal!!!

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

I don't know where get this idea that no one can sin the spiritual realm. Did Lucifer sin while in the spiritual realm? How about the other angels that followed after him?

 

[RJ]

I don't know why you simply can not see what scripture clearly tells us. We are in the spirit!!

Oh yes, I see it but not as you!
I will answer all of these one last time, but I am really done here because we just don't see the same thing!

Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God

Yes, but nothing about you being perfect in the here and now, just a statement that you can not live how you used to, you can only please God with Christ in you. It is Christ in you alone that is perfect, not you. With Christ in you, God imputes you with perfection because of Christ not you @Curtis ! It is ALL about him and none of you! Credited perfection is not the same as you personally being perfect!

Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

Yep but nothing here about you, yourself being perfect!

Right this second we are sitting in Heavenly places in Christ. Is Jesus in the spiritual realm?
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

YES! I believe that, but nothing about you in your present state being perfect.

• Ephesians 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, The Spirit is God's guarantee that he will give us the inheritance he promised and that he has purchased us to be his own people. He did this so we would praise and glorify him.
• That he will give us @Curtis in the future!!!!!
• 2 Corinthians 1:22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
• What is to come Not now brother...latter!!!

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Wonderful, wonderful verse @Curtis but nothing here about you being perfect in the here and now!

Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,

Yes, but we await and that doesn't mean we have it now!

I don't know where get this idea that no one can sin the spiritual realm. Did Lucifer sin while in the spiritual realm? How about the other angels that followed after him?

O.K., O.K., now if you believe that a "Believer" can sin in heaven..... You and I are not of the same faith. God says he is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth. God is perfect and his realm is perfect and no imperfection can exist there. I suggest you go back to 1 COR 13 and reread where it says that imperfection leaves and perfection comes!

 

[rag4aCrown]

We can be perfect right now; but it requires us to make sacrifice.

Matthew 19:21
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Unless we forsake ALL and pick up our cross and follow Him, We will not come into perfect unity with Him because something in our worldly life is always pulling us away. We can not serve both; God and mammon.

All praise glory and honor be unto God. Amen