Beware of false prophets

[Travis]

So this verse says to avoid them but it does not say to 'blast' them..Right?

Romans 16:17-18 (CJB)
17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put snares alongside the teaching in which you have been trained — keep away from them. 18 For men like these are not serving our Lord the Messiah but their own belly; by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the innocent.

Hey!

Thanks for the scripture. Very apropos.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Brighthouse]

Jesus sure did some blasting!! LOL matt 23!! In almost this whole chapter Jesus lets em have it !! verse 17!! verse 24! verse 33!!! It is also interesting Jesus made a weapon as well!! John 2:13-25!! There is a time for this,but as in anything we are to be led by Holy Spirit, and not our own flesh!! Rom 8:14-15!

 

[Bendito]

Jesus sure did some blasting!! LOL matt 23!! In almost this whole chapter Jesus lets em have it !! verse 17!! verse 24! verse 33!!! It is also interesting Jesus made a weapon as well!! John 2:13-25!! There is a time for this,but as in anything we are to be led by Holy Spirit, and not our own flesh!! Rom 8:14-15!

Well He was definitely making His point. LOL For a point. I think though..what He was angry about was the way the people were defiling the house of God. Don't you? The ones He bashed were not false prophets but totally corrupt leaders of the religion. Those guys didn't even follow Torah. Torah is Love based and there was NO love in them.
You said "
There is a time for this,but as in anything we are to be led by Holy Spirit, and not our own flesh!! Rom 8:14-15" and you are right! There is a time and place for righteous anger such as Jesus displayed. But we will allow the Holy Spirit to bring it up.

 

[Brighthouse]

Brother Bendito,as i have great regard for you and all here,I have been rather concerned as of late with some around me where i live,it seems many wish to go back to Hebrew roots,people calling themselves Messianc jews,I know this can be most hard to define,because there are many different factions to these people who call themselves messianc jews,the real jews do not care for them, because they do not follow Torah perfectly,I do not wish to call this a cult either,but its borders are close in my humble opinion.

From a study I have done on these people,and please do correct me,i have found this belief to be very close to what I call Phariseism ( spelling could be better, sorry for that) Now to be clear,I have nothing against anyone being Jewish! Many of my friends here and in other Countries happen to be Jewish,my concern, as it were is, that many who held to Jesus rather then the law are looking to back to the law for whatever reason. You said these guys did not follow Torah,could you please explain to me? Because Scribes and Pharisees were the very teachers of the law itself, were they not brother?( Matt 23:2-3) They practiced these things did they not?( Deut 11:13-21 and Deut 6:4-9) Exodus 13:11-16,and exodus13:1-10

Many more scripture i could give concerning the scribes and pharisees but you already know from which I speak.I good brother am not looking to argue! I am looking to grow in further understanding and looking to reason together with you( Isaiah 1:18) In Hebrews 6:4-6 to me brother is based upon Gal 5:4 not an argument for once saved always saved as many make it.God warns us in the Old covenant to not look back, to go back( Genesis 19:26)

In the new covenant Jesus himself reminds his people again of this. ( Luke 9:62) SO!! Please explain to me how Torah can be practiced today,when no man can perfectly keep Torah? Hence why in exodus 19:4 the words we will do is explained in length in Hebrew Sin texts,and I will make this the short version, the people were saying in effect that they did not wish God's grace any longer,they wanted a work based belief based upon there own merit. if you will notice from this point on as one reads,after this statement was made,God was not happy,he did not give the Ten Commandments as a blessing but rather as a code of conduct, no Jew could possible fulfill!( exodus 19:9)

Now God comes to Moses in a thick cloud,now God will not have his people's unbelief around him.( exodus 19:12-13) I also noticed in the law no command to pray,which makes perfect sense to me since all works by man need no prayer to them. It is about demand, not supply, as in the new covenant( Phil 4:19) I did not wish to make this long bro,but I have read much of what you have posted,and know you know the Lord as well as scripture and perhaps you can help me to understand Torah more then i do!

I have no ego to bruise brother,so please be as direct as possible to help me understand where many are coming from in Torah.And some people have told me that the Ten Commandments was not part of the law itself? Really??? Exodus 34:28!! Thank you brother for taking the time with me in advance!! I just wish to understand the mindset of these people who wish to go back to something which has been abolished is all!!( Heb 8:6-13) I do not judge them,I am looking to reason with them,and hopefully have them reason with me!! Thanks again brother!! Mark

 

[Bendito]

Brother Bendito,as i have great regard for you and all here,I have been rather concerned as of late with some around me where i live,it seems many wish to go back to Hebrew roots,people calling themselves Messianc jews,I know this can be most hard to define,because there are many different factions to these people who call themselves messianc jews,the real jews do not care for them, because they do not follow Torah perfectly,I do not wish to call this a cult either,but its borders are close in my humble opinion.

From a study I have done on these people,and please do correct me,i have found this belief to be very close to what I call Phariseism ( spelling could be better, sorry for that) Now to be clear,I have nothing against anyone being Jewish! Many of my friends here and in other Countries happen to be Jewish,my concern, as it were is, that many who held to Jesus rather then the law are looking to back to the law for whatever reason. You said these guys did not follow Torah,could you please explain to me? Because Scribes and Pharisees were the very teachers of the law itself, were they not brother?( Matt 23:2-3) They practiced these things did they not?( Deut 11:13-21 and Deut 6:4-9) Exodus 13:11-16,and exodus13:1-10

Many more scripture i could give concerning the scribes and pharisees but you already know from which I speak.I good brother am not looking to argue! I am looking to grow in further understanding and looking to reason together with you( Isaiah 1:18) In Hebrews 6:4-6 to me brother is based upon Gal 5:4 not an argument for once saved always saved as many make it.God warns us in the Old covenant to not look back, to go back( Genesis 19:26)

In the new covenant Jesus himself reminds his people again of this. ( Luke 9:62) SO!! Please explain to me how Torah can be practiced today,when no man can perfectly keep Torah? Hence why in exodus 19:4 the words we will do is explained in length in Hebrew Sin texts,and I will make this the short version, the people were saying in effect that they did not wish God's grace any longer,they wanted a work based belief based upon there own merit. if you will notice from this point on as one reads,after this statement was made,God was not happy,he did not give the Ten Commandments as a blessing but rather as a code of conduct, no Jew could possible fulfill!( exodus 19:9)

Now God comes to Moses in a thick cloud,now God will not have his people's unbelief around him.( exodus 19:12-13) I also noticed in the law no command to pray,which makes perfect sense to me since all works by man need no prayer to them. It is about demand, not supply, as in the new covenant( Phil 4:19) I did not wish to make this long bro,but I have read much of what you have posted,and know you know the Lord as well as scripture and perhaps you can help me to understand Torah more then i do!

I have no ego to bruise brother,so please be as direct as possible to help me understand where many are coming from in Torah.And some people have told me that the Ten Commandments was not part of the law itself? Really??? Exodus 34:28!! Thank you brother for taking the time with me in advance!! I just wish to understand the mindset of these people who wish to go back to something which has been abolished is all!!( Heb 8:6-13) I do not judge them,I am looking to reason with them,and hopefully have them reason with me!! Thanks again brother!! Mark

Brother Bendito,as i have great regard for you and all here,I have been rather concerned as of late with some around me where i live,it seems many wish to go back to Hebrew roots,people calling themselves Messianc jews,I know this can be most hard to define,because there are many different factions to these people who call themselves messianc jews,the real jews do not care for them, because they do not follow Torah perfectly,I do not wish to call this a cult either,but its borders are close in my humble opinion.

From a study I have done on these people,and please do correct me,i have found this belief to be very close to what I call Phariseism ( spelling could be better, sorry for that) Now to be clear,I have nothing against anyone being Jewish! Many of my friends here and in other Countries happen to be Jewish,my concern, as it were is, that many who held to Jesus rather then the law are looking to back to the law for whatever reason. You said these guys did not follow Torah,could you please explain to me? Because Scribes and Pharisees were the very teachers of the law itself, were they not brother?( Matt 23:2-3) They practiced these things did they not?( Deut 11:13-21 and Deut 6:4-9) Exodus 13:11-16,and exodus13:1-10

Many more scripture i could give concerning the scribes and pharisees but you already know from which I speak.I good brother am not looking to argue! I am looking to grow in further understanding and looking to reason together with you( Isaiah 1:18) In Hebrews 6:4-6 to me brother is based upon Gal 5:4 not an argument for once saved always saved as many make it.God warns us in the Old covenant to not look back, to go back( Genesis 19:26)

In the new covenant Jesus himself reminds his people again of this. ( Luke 9:62) SO!! Please explain to me how Torah can be practiced today,when no man can perfectly keep Torah? Hence why in exodus 19:4 the words we will do is explained in length in Hebrew Sin texts,and I will make this the short version, the people were saying in effect that they did not wish God's grace any longer,they wanted a work based belief based upon there own merit. if you will notice from this point on as one reads,after this statement was made,God was not happy,he did not give the Ten Commandments as a blessing but rather as a code of conduct, no Jew could possible fulfill!( exodus 19:9)

Now God comes to Moses in a thick cloud,now God will not have his people's unbelief around him.( exodus 19:12-13) I also noticed in the law no command to pray,which makes perfect sense to me since all works by man need no prayer to them. It is about demand, not supply, as in the new covenant( Phil 4:19) I did not wish to make this long bro,but I have read much of what you have posted,and know you know the Lord as well as scripture and perhaps you can help me to understand Torah more then i do!

I have no ego to bruise brother,so please be as direct as possible to help me understand where many are coming from in Torah.And some people have told me that the Ten Commandments was not part of the law itself? Really??? Exodus 34:28!! Thank you brother for taking the time with me in advance!! I just wish to understand the mindset of these people who wish to go back to something which has been abolished is all!!( Heb 8:6-13) I do not judge them,I am looking to reason with them,and hopefully have them reason with me!! Thanks again brother!! Mark

Hey Mark.. Good question. I too am bothered by this messianic thing with Christians.

Look first at the word 'messianic' A Messianic Jew is a Jew who knows he is a Jew, who lives according to the law. He follows Torah and well as he can but he lives by the law... He becomes Messianic by turning away from the law and accepting Jesus as his Messiah and is saved by grace, like the rest of us. Now instead of living by law, he lives by faith. For the justified shall live by faith. That is what makes a Messianic Jew. He was a Jew to start with.

Look at this Mark...My Lady, my wife of forty one years is a Jew. She has been a Christian for at least fifty years.. Ready for this? She didn't know that she is Jewish till a few years after she met Jesus, and accepted Him. She never lived by the law..that means she is not a Messianic Christian, she is just Christian. You need the criteria to be a Messianic.

May I be blunt? At the risk of offending some,(I hope I do not) I'll simply say that one CANNOT live by faith and law at the same time.

Galatians 3:12 (CJB)

12 Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text that says, “Anyone who does these things will attain life through them.”
Inother words anyone who wants to follow law is not living by faithbut by legalism. All of the law given by God was in the Torah. That is the first five books of the Old Covenant...What about the rest of the law then? The Jews wound up with 613 laws that they had to follow daily. Virtually impossible...but in the Old Covenant when God gave the law, how many laws were given?
God gave Moses the ten commandments, which are not the law. Then God laid down laws concerning health, behavior, and the tabernacle..... Like How to prepare food so it would not go bad or make the people sick. When to circumcise a boychild, (wait till the eighth day because that is when the clotting of the blood becomes possible. He didn't want the boy to bleed to death. This is how you will worship because it is to be a picture of how worship of Jesus will look.


So what happened next. Rabbinical law. Rabbi’s got swell headed and started to interpret the law of God and made many other laws that consolidated their power over the people. They got rich, they got selfish, they got mean and nasty right clear through. They ruled the people. Poorly.

All Torah is based on the Love of God. These Rabbis make laws for the people to follow. These laws were not based on Love but on greed, lust for power etc. These Rabbis were not following Torah. Torah was for them too. They were liars and hypocrites. Whited sepulchers Having the appearance of following the law but full of rot inside.

Look at Galatians 3 (CJB)
3 You stupid Galatians! Who has put you under a spell? Before your very eyes Yeshua the Messiah was clearly portrayed as having been put to death as a criminal! 2 I want to know from you just this one thing: did you receive the Spirit by legalistic observance of Torah commands or by trusting in what you heard and being faithful to it? 3 Are you that stupid? Having begun with the Spirit’s power, do you think you can reach the goal under your own power? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing? If that’s the way you think, your suffering certainly will have been for nothing! 5 What about God, who supplies you with the Spirit and works miracles among you — does he do it because of your legalistic observance of Torah commands or because you trust in what you heard and are faithful to it?”

LOL The word ‘stupid’ is a more accurate translation. I find it funny.

The point is..Paul saw the same problem way back then. The people were deceived..The same as today.


This is getting too wordy. I’ll cut it a bit short.


Yes the thing of Messianic Christianity is a deception. Satan has no imagination. All he can do is to do what he has always done, namely to repeat the same old lies and he has always repeated. Now, just like Lots wife they are led into the realm of Grace but want to go back to Sodom.

So how can we practice Torah today? Look here. Matthew 22:35-40

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


On these two laws, all of the law is based…All of the the law is based on just these two laws. Live by these two laws, and you will be following Torah.

 

[Brighthouse]

LOL Thanks brother for the clarification! I hope to understand more in the future,for a believer who says his knowledge has ended,needs only to look at Hosea 4:6 to truly see why many have so much lack of it. LOL The wisdom of God himself( 1 cor 1:30-31) comes from always seeking his knowledge of him in every place!! Blessing and thanks again brother. The LOl is for the word stupid you used. i find this so much more true, rather then false, from those who do not seek to indeed find!! Matt 7:7

 

[Bendito]

Hey Mark.. Good question. I too am bothered by this messianic thing with Christians.

Look first at the word 'messianic' A Messianic Jew is a Jew who knows he is a Jew, who lives according to the law. He follows Torah and well as he can but he lives by the law... He becomes Messianic by turning away from the law and accepting Jesus as his Messiah and is saved by grace, like the rest of us. Now instead of living by law, he lives by faith. For the justified shall live by faith. That is what makes a Messianic Jew. He was a Jew to start with.

Look at this Mark...My Lady, my wife of forty one years is a Jew. She has been a Christian for at least fifty years.. Ready for this? She didn't know that she is Jewish till a few years after she met Jesus, and accepted Him. She never lived by the law..that means she is not a Messianic Christian, she is just Christian. You need the criteria to be a Messianic.

May I be blunt? At the risk of offending some,(I hope I do not) I'll simply say that one CANNOT live by faith and law at the same time.

Galatians 3:12 (CJB)

12 Furthermore, legalism is not based on trusting and being faithful, but on [a misuse of] the text that says, “Anyone who does these things will attain life through them.”
Inother words anyone who wants to follow law is not living by faithbut by legalism. All of the law given by God was in the Torah. That is the first five books of the Old Covenant...What about the rest of the law then? The Jews wound up with 613 laws that they had to follow daily. Virtually impossible...but in the Old Covenant when God gave the law, how many laws were given?
God gave Moses the ten commandments, which are not the law. Then God laid down laws concerning health, behavior, and the tabernacle..... Like How to prepare food so it would not go bad or make the people sick. When to circumcise a boychild, (wait till the eighth day because that is when the clotting of the blood becomes possible. He didn't want the boy to bleed to death. This is how you will worship because it is to be a picture of how worship of Jesus will look.


So what happened next. Rabbinical law. Rabbi’s got swell headed and started to interpret the law of God and made many other laws that consolidated their power over the people. They got rich, they got selfish, they got mean and nasty right clear through. They ruled the people. Poorly.

All Torah is based on the Love of God. These Rabbis make laws for the people to follow. These laws were not based on Love but on greed, lust for power etc. These Rabbis were not following Torah. Torah was for them too. They were liars and hypocrites. Whited sepulchers Having the appearance of following the law but full of rot inside.

Look at Galatians 3 (CJB)
3 You stupid Galatians! Who has put you under a spell? Before your very eyes Yeshua the Messiah was clearly portrayed as having been put to death as a criminal! 2 I want to know from you just this one thing: did you receive the Spirit by legalistic observance of Torah commands or by trusting in what you heard and being faithful to it? 3 Are you that stupid? Having begun with the Spirit’s power, do you think you can reach the goal under your own power? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing? If that’s the way you think, your suffering certainly will have been for nothing! 5 What about God, who supplies you with the Spirit and works miracles among you — does he do it because of your legalistic observance of Torah commands or because you trust in what you heard and are faithful to it?”

LOL The word ‘stupid’ is a more accurate translation. I find it funny.

The point is..Paul saw the same problem way back then. The people were deceived..The same as today.


This is getting too wordy. I’ll cut it a bit short.


Yes the thing of Messianic Christianity is a deception. Satan has no imagination. All he can do is to do what he has always done, namely to repeat the same old lies and he has always repeated. Now, just like Lots wife they are led into the realm of Grace but want to go back to Sodom.

So how can we practice Torah today? Look here. Matthew 22:35-40

35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


On these two laws, all of the law is based…All of the the law is based on just these two laws. Live by these two laws, and you will be following Torah.

Wow! That was

LOL Thanks brother for the clarification! I hope to understand more in the future,for a believer who says his knowledge has ended,needs only to look at Hosea 4:6 to truly see why many have so much lack of it. LOL The wisdom of God himself( 1 cor 1:30-31) comes from always seeking his knowledge of him in every place!! Blessing and thanks again brother.

You've just got to love the zeal of these people who want to be closer to God...We all get messed up at times by the enemy though Right?

 

[Brighthouse]

Yes brother, i believe this comes from looking backwards instead of moving!!! forwards. lol fine point!( exodus 14:13-15!!