Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

[KingJ]

I think you make your doctrine up as you go along.

I think you cherry pick my post for wise cracks.

This discussion is not a competition to keep face. Stop coming across like that is your A-Z plan here.

I have discussed free will at length here before and can link you to my full belief on God's omniscience.

The Catholic church believe He limits it to uphold true free will, I agree.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings children,

would you like me to close this thread?

Less personal bites, unless you like to give place to the devil, and in that case, please go and fill a different forum/platform.

From what i can see so far, if the Lord were to return, i don't think those bickering over things they know little about will be found waiting, do you?

Please remember this and ALSO please remember that you are all equal here and that we all should be encouraging one another in this evil day.

All this talk about what it is to be saved, etc and here we find the substantial amount of posts do little to bring glory and respect to the name of Christ and as public examples of the Lord, we need to humble ourselves and get back to being born again, to being saved ,to being filled and renewed.

Give thanks to the LORD for He is good.


Bless you all ....><>


Post in Peace

 

[KingJ]

Isa 49:18; "Lift up your eyes and look around; All of them gather together, they come to you. As I live," declares the LORD, "You will surely put on all of them as jewels and bind them on as a bride.
Isa 61:10; I will rejoice greatly in the LORD, My soul will exult in my God; For He has clothed me with garments of salvation, He has wrapped me with a robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with a garland, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
Isa 62:5; For as a young man marries a virgin, So your sons will marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, So your God will rejoice over you.
Jer 2:32; "Can a virgin forget her ornaments, Or a bride her attire? Yet My people have forgotten Me Days without number.

An excerpt from the below link:

The New Testament calls Christ the “bridegroom” and the church his “bride.” To understand what this means can change your life. We need to read this through the lens of first century Jewish marriage.

Saying Yes. A marriage is entered into only when the prospective bride accepts the invitation and pledges her life to the groom.

The Betrothal Period. Ancient Jewish couples were betrothed to one another for one or more years before they had a wedding ceremony and consummated their marriage. Yet, this betrothal period was not anything like modern “engagements” that can be easily called of. The betrothal period was a time when the bride and groom were supposed to prepare themselves for the life they were going to soon share together. The husband often went away and prepared a home for the future family while the woman would engage in practices that prepared her for her future life as a wife and mother.

What Does It Mean to Be Married to Christ? - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

The New Testament calls Christ the “bridegroom” and the church his “bride.” To understand what this means can change your life. We need to read this through the lens of first century Jewish marriage. In what follows we’ll highlight six aspects of first century Jewish marriages to see how each...

reknew.org

And yet God compares Israel to a bride in the OT also.

True and that should raise alarm bells, surely.

 

[Downunder]

What does the Bible expect a Christian to do as proof they are saved? Is there anything that if I did not do, beyond believing in Jesus, I would not go to heaven?

Faithfulness and to walk with God until the end of life or until our Lord returns.

 

[KingJ]

I think we have "strayed" pretty far ourselves here in the thread.

But make no mistake, our God is a jealous God.

Exod 20:5; "You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Exod 34:14; —for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God—
Deut 4:24; "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Deut 6:15; for the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.
Deut 32:16; "They made Him jealous with strange gods; With abominations they provoked Him to anger.
Deut 32:21; 'They have made Me jealous with what is not God; They have provoked Me to anger with their idols. So I will make them jealous with those who are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation,
Josh 24:19 ; Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins.
Nah 1:2; A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD is avenging and wrathful. The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies.

2Cor 11:2; For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.

God uses some pretty graphic language to explain how he sees this. In verse 4 it says He is talking about Samaria and Jerusalem here.

Ezek 23:2 "Son of man, there were two women, the daughters of one mother;
Ezek 23:3 and they played the harlot in Egypt. They played the harlot in their youth; there their breasts were pressed and there their virgin bosom was handled.
Ezek 23:4 "Their names were Oholah the elder and Oholibah her sister. And they became Mine, and they bore sons and daughters. And as for their names, Samaria is Oholah and Jerusalem is Oholibah.
Ezek 23:5 "Oholah played the harlot while she was Mine; and she lusted after her lovers, after the Assyrians, her neighbors,
Ezek 23:6 who were clothed in purple, governors and officials, all of them desirable young men, horsemen riding on horses.
Ezek 23:7 "She bestowed her harlotries on them, all of whom were the choicest men of Assyria; and with all whom she lusted after, with all their idols she defiled herself.
Ezek 23:8 "She did not forsake her harlotries from the time in Egypt; for in her youth men had lain with her, and they handled her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.
Ezek 23:9 "Therefore, I gave her into the hand of her lovers, into the hand of the Assyrians, after whom she lusted.
Ezek 23:10 "They uncovered her nakedness; they took her sons and her daughters, but they slew her with the sword. Thus she became a byword among women, and they executed judgments on her.
Ezek 23:11 "Now her sister Oholibah saw this, yet she was more corrupt in her lust than she, and her harlotries were more than the harlotries of her sister.
Ezek 23:12 "She lusted after the Assyrians, governors and officials, the ones near, magnificently dressed, horsemen riding on horses, all of them desirable young men.
Ezek 23:13 "I saw that she had defiled herself; they both took the same way.
Ezek 23:14 "So she increased her harlotries. And she saw men portrayed on the wall, images of the Chaldeans portrayed with vermilion,
Ezek 23:15 girded with belts on their loins, with flowing turbans on their heads, all of them looking like officers, like the Babylonians in Chaldea, the land of their birth.
Ezek 23:16 "When she saw them she lusted after them and sent messengers to them in Chaldea.
Ezek 23:17 "The Babylonians came to her to the bed of love and defiled her with their harlotry. And when she had been defiled by them, she became disgusted with them.
Ezek 23:18 "She uncovered her harlotries and uncovered her nakedness; then I became disgusted with her, as I had become disgusted with her sister.
Ezek 23:19 "Yet she multiplied her harlotries, remembering the days of her youth, when she played the harlot in the land of Egypt.
Ezek 23:20 "She lusted after their paramours, whose genitals is like the genitals of donkeys and whose semen is like the semen of horses.
Ezek 23:21 "Thus you longed for the lewdness of your youth, when the Egyptians handled your bosom because of the breasts of your youth.
Ezek 23:22 "Therefore, O Oholibah, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Behold I will arouse your lovers against you, from whom you were alienated, and I will bring them against you from every side:
Ezek 23:23 the Babylonians and all the Chaldeans, Pekod and Shoa and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them; desirable young men, governors and officials all of them, officers and men of renown, all of them riding on horses.
Ezek 23:24 'They will come against you with weapons, chariots and wagons, and with a company of peoples. They will set themselves against you on every side with buckler and shield and helmet; and I will commit the judgment to them, and they will judge you according to their customs.
Ezek 23:25 'I will set My jealousy against you, that they may deal with you in wrath. They will remove your nose and your ears; and your survivors will fall by the sword. They will take your sons and your daughters; and your survivors will be consumed by the fire.

We say we love God, we say God loves us... but we take the seriousness of those statement WAAAAAAAAYYYY too lightly.
God isn't going to put up with a lot of nonsense. He forgave them a few times, but eventually He had enough.

BAC, no pro OSAS person here disagrees with God being extremely jealous. It is an inevitability from a Being that loves us, His creation.

The two facts you need to meditate on is 1. the reality of us deciding to serve Jesus not being a Mickey Mouse decision. Especially today. OSAS is clearer today then yesterday. From day one you will endure rejection and persecution. A person that can endure this will never be among those that make God jealous at such a level that we need His wrath on us. 2. God does not wash clean and graft into His vine someone that will one-day be a devil.

Eph 2:11-13 Don’t forget that you Gentiles used to be outsiders. You were called “uncircumcised heathens” by the Jews, who were proud of their circumcision, even though it affected only their bodies and not their hearts. 12 In those days you were living apart from Christ. You were excluded from citizenship among the people of Israel, and you did not know the covenant promises God had made to them. You lived in this world without God and without hope. 13 But now you have been united with Christ Jesus. Once you were far away from God, but now you have been brought near to him through the blood of Christ.

 

[Downunder]

2. God does not wash clean and graft into His vine someone that will one-day be a devil.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve? And yet one of you is a devil.”
6:71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray him.

Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of the heavens is like a net, cast into the sea, and gathering of every kind:
13:48 which, when it was filled, they drew up on the beach; and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast away the bad.

 

[B-A-C]

God does not wash clean and graft into His vine someone that will one-day be a devil.

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth

Rom 11:19; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

 

[KingJ]

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

A true Christian would never be among them.

Many like to attend church. They come to church and find love. Caring people. Learn about a merciful God. Many come for the promises of wealth. The promises of power. Not many come to ''deny themselves, carry their cross and follow Jesus'' Matt 16:24 be rejected and hated by many. Those that do, will not be among those thrown out.

; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

A true Christian can never have unbelief.

2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

You can get washed at church, sure. But unless you are truly saved, you have just had an experience. A taste. A shower. You have not fully converted. It is most certainly a case of a 'dog', returning to being 'dog'.

 

[Downunder]

But unless you are truly saved, you have just had an experience. A taste. A shower. You have not fully converted.

False doctrine.
I did a search for "truly saved" in the NT in numerous Bible versions and no results. Zilch. No verses contain "truly saved."
Truly saved is not scriptural and is not correct doctrine.
This false assertion is required by those pushing OSAS to deny the scriptures pertaining to true worshippers failing, falling away, and departing from the faith.

 

[KingJ]

False doctrine.
I did a search for "truly saved" in the NT in numerous Bible versions and no results. Zilch. No verses contain "truly saved."
Truly saved is not scriptural and is not correct doctrine.
This false assertion is required by those pushing OSAS to deny the scriptures pertaining to true worshippers failing, falling away, and departing from the faith.

Matt 7:22-23 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Note the fact these are ''people in attendance'' and ''taking part in the power of God'', yet Jesus says of them ''I never knew you''.

Don't merely ''ctrl find'' truly saved .

 

[Downunder]

Don't merely ''ctrl find'' truly saved .

No no no - you do not get off that easily.
You and others mesmerised by OSAS always end up referring to the "truly saved" as opposed to the rest of us who are merely saved or worse have only "tasted" Jesus (whatever that is).
So who are the truly saved not by opinion but in scripture? And were does scripture identify those who are only saved?

 

[B-A-C]

A true Christian can never have unbelief.

A presumption not supported anywhere in scripture.

Mark 16:14; Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

You can get washed at church, sure. But unless you are truly saved, you have just had an experience. A taste. A shower. You have not fully converted. It is most certainly a case of a 'dog', returning to being 'dog'.

Another presumption, this passage doesn't say they were washed by "the church".

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

It doesn't say they are "still" in the defilements of the workd, it says they have "escaped". If you have escaped prison, you're no longer in prison.
How did they escape? By the knowledge of Jesus.
What happened after they escaped? They got entangled in sin "again". The word again implies "more than once". I can't do something "again" unless I stop doing it for at least a little while before I start doing it again.
How did they get washed? It says nothing about the church here, the church can't wash you. Only Jesus can wash you.

 

[KingJ]

No no no - you do not get off that easily.
You and others mesmerised by OSAS always end up referring to the "truly saved" as opposed to the rest of us who are merely saved or worse have only "tasted" Jesus (whatever that is).
So who are the truly saved not by opinion but in scripture? And were does scripture identify those who are only saved?

You sound like those people that won't believe in the trinity or mortal and venial sins because there is no scripture that says ''trinity''.

 

[KingJ]

A presumption not supported anywhere in scripture.
Mark 16:14; Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

We have differing ideas of the 'belief' a Christian needs.

Would you say that after Matt 16:16-17, Peter could be an atheist?

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

Another presumption, this passage doesn't say they were washed by "the church".

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

It doesn't say they are "still" in the defilements of the workd, it says they have "escaped". If you have escaped prison, you're no longer in prison.
How did they escape? By the knowledge of Jesus.
What happened after they escaped? They got entangled in sin "again". The word again implies "more than once". I can't do something "again" unless I stop doing it for at least a little while before I start doing it again.
How did they get washed? It says nothing about the church here, the church can't wash you. Only Jesus can wash you.

If you read Matt 7:22-23 you will see that is most definitely possible to have a Christian experience and not be a Christian. Note how Jesus says ''I never knew you''.

Have a ''knowledge of Jesus'' and not be a Christian.

As for 'washed', I have to disagree with you. A Christian makes their home in the living waters. Many jump in, get washed and jump out.

A Christian is not only 'washed' they are made a new creation 2 Cor 5:17.

 

[Born Again 2004]

A presumption not supported anywhere in scripture.

Mark 16:14; Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.


Another presumption, this passage doesn't say they were washed by "the church".

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

It doesn't say they are "still" in the defilements of the workd, it says they have "escaped". If you have escaped prison, you're no longer in prison.
How did they escape? By the knowledge of Jesus.
What happened after they escaped? They got entangled in sin "again". The word again implies "more than once". I can't do something "again" unless I stop doing it for at least a little while before I start doing it again.
How did they get washed? It says nothing about the church here, the church can't wash you. Only Jesus can wash you.

So we all fail and fall short, right?
So, you fail at Jesus's Commandments, correct?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings folks....

slow down and please resist the temptation to get personal - TalkJesus id NOT here for that.

================
==================

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
John 15:3

when we discuss being clean or made clean or cleaned, perhaps we should remember what our Lord Jesus Christ said?

I am the real vine, and My Father is the gardener. He breaks off every branch in me that does not bear fruit,

and He prunes every branch that does bear fruit,
so that it will be clean and bear more fruit.

You have been made clean already by the teaching I have given you. Remain united to Me, and I will remain united to you.

A branch cannot bear fruit by itself; it can do so only if it remains in the vine.

In the same way you cannot bear fruit unless you remain in Me.
John 15:1-4

====================

Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost
Titus 3:5

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.

In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. For we are members of His body.

“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”

This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church.

Nevertheless, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
Ephesians 5:25-33


let's get serious about who washes who, how and why and if we are one in Him?

Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>


Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to Thy Word
Psalm 119:9

 

[Downunder]

You sound like those people that won't believe in the trinity or mortal and venial sins because there is no scripture that says ''trinity''.

Scriptures on the "truly saved" versus scriptures on the merely "saved" please.
Your whole doctrine of OSAS depends on this claim.
So uphold it. Give your doctrine some credibility.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Scriptures on the "truly saved" versus scriptures on the merely "saved" please.
Your whole doctrine of OSAS depends on this claim.
So uphold it. Give your doctrine some credibility.

Who does the saving here, Man or God?

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible talks quite a bit about obedience.

Obedience infers free-will.
Otherwise it's subservience, slavery. While the Bible also says we can be slaves to righteous and Jesus, it makes it clear that it is due to obedience.
We can obey, or we can refuse to obey.

God saves us... but it's up to us to be obedient.
Every time we sin, we are disobedient.