Can not know the Lord without Repentance??

[At Peace]

Stop and Start again.
Churches are full of People who lead good godly lives. That is in deeds, actions, attitudes which comes to life styles and tare not born again.

This has to do with nothing else.
There are unsaved folks who are kinder and more giving then a lot of Christians.

That is the entire point.

Then you mislabel many as Christian.
Were the crusaders Christians?
Were the chaplains that blessed our bombs in WW II Christians?
Where the slave owners in America Christians?
No, they all hated the God who said..."Thou shalt not kill", and, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", and "Pray for those who spitefully use you".

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Then you mislabel many as Christian.
Were the crusaders Christians?
Were the chaplains that blessed our bombs in WW II Christians?
Where the slave owners in America Christians?
No, they all hated the God who said..."Thou shalt not kill", and, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", and "Pray for those who spitefully use you".

Have no idea where you come up with this. I had not said anything close to that.

:]

 

[KingJ]

Then you mislabel many as Christian.
1. Were the crusaders Christians?
2. Were the chaplains that blessed our bombs in WW II Christians?
3. Where the slave owners in America Christians?
4. No, they all hated the God who said..."Thou shalt not kill", and, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", and "Pray for those who spitefully use you".

1. Initially, yes. Crusades started in self defense.
2. Yes. Self defense. We see Christ in the Geneva convention.
3. Some, perhaps. We can't generalize. Those who kidnapped the slaves, no. Those who abused the slaves, no. Those who accepted the situation created and brought Christ to the situation, yes.
4. Self defense is fine. If you don't defend your family, you have their blood on your hands.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I agree but you sure took the long way about it.

I don't see it the same way:

• Matthew 5:27-28 27"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
• I would say, as in the above verse, lusting in the heart, even if there is absolutely no outward or external action, is a sin.
• If you ever, for one second, are tempted in your heart.....you have sinned!
• I would say that , in the "Temptation of Jesus" , the Devil hurled one temptation after another at Jesus but, not once, even in his heart, was Jesus ever tempted!

 

[B-A-C]

• If you ever, for one second, are tempted in your heart.....you have sinned!

• I would say that , in the "Temptation of Jesus" , the Devil hurled one temptation after another at Jesus but, not once, even in his heart, was Jesus ever tempted!

Then you are specifically saying the Bible is wrong.

Heb 2:18; For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Heb 4:15; For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus hadn't eaten in 40 days, do you think He wasn't hungry?

Matt 4:3; And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."

 

[Born Again 2004]

B-A-C, why I don't know what your objective is but, it seems to me you wrong, you jump to conclusion out of nowhere and you have always tried to put words in my mouth!

Then you are specifically saying the Bible is wrong.

ABSOLUTELY, not. I have been here , in one form or another, for over 10 years and, NOT ONCE, have I not even remotely intimated that the Bible is wrong. I have always said it is the perfect inflatable word of God. So, please " Cease and Desist"spreading such false notions about me.

Heb 4:15; For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Yes, for once we have a Priest that can sympathize with our weakness to submit to temptation. The Devil offered temptations to him and not only did he not do them, he wasn't even tempted in his heart. Wish I could say the same about your chastisement of me!

Jesus hadn't eaten in 40 days, do you think He wasn't hungry?

Even more so , he was Jesus, we are not!

Matt 4:3; And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."

I don't know where you are headed with this but Jesus had the power to do so but only rebuke the Devil's temptation by sayig this in verse 4: "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"

I don't understand you brother, you have some offense against me and , though I would't have thought it before, I am beginning to think you don't know scripture as well as you seem to state!

 

[B-A-C]

I don't understand you brother, you have some offense against me

I assure you, I have nothing against you. As far as I know I have never called you a name, or said you were unsaved. That doesn't mean we
have to agree on everything. Everyone here on TJ disagrees with me on at least one point of another
I just view you as someone I disagree with on some things... certainly not everything. You make some great points from time to time.

Having said that... I don't see how you say something that is plainly the opposite of what the Bible says.

Heb 2:18; For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.
Heb 4:15; For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

It says He was tempted. Plain and simple. No interpretation needed. No speculation needed. It says what it says.

We can adjust our thinking to what the Bible says... or we can adjust the Bible to our thinking.

not only did he not do them, he wasn't even tempted in his heart. Wish I could say the same about your chastisement of me!

No "chastisement" against you is intended. I'm glad you're here.. seriously.
But what separates sin from temptation is "acting" on the temptation.

Lets take the example of the woman on a magazine cover for example. There are a couple ways to look at this.
Is it a sin that my eyes glanced a certain direction? I didn't know what was there until I looked and I saw. Can I be held accountable to something I didn't
even know was there a second ago?

Now I see it, now I recognize what it is.... Oh it's a skimpily dressed woman. Is it a sin that I recognize what it is now? How can I know what something is
until I can identify it, recognize it. How can I even know what a "good" thing is until I identify it.

Now I have two choices.... I can continue to stare at this picture... maybe I could even buy the magazine.
Or... I can simply turn my head, walk away and focus on something else. Say a little prayer for Jesus to help my thoughts as I'm turning away.

Now I partially agree with you on one point. I don't have to buy the magazine for it to be a sin. A sin can be purely in our thoughts.
(see I agree with you a lot of the time). But even then... it's just like the magazine. I can take my thoughts captive and force myself not to think
about this picture... or I can entertain these thoughts and dwell on them. I can fantasize about the woman in the picture.

It's not a sin until I actually start thinking about it. Until I actually start entertaining these thoughts and fantasies.
The temptation may be to look at the magazine. But I don't have to keep looking. Not only that, I don't have to keep these things in my mind.

I see a woman on the street... Ok, I notice she is nice looking. That isn't a sin. That doesn't mean I fantasize about having sex with her.
That split second when you think about whether to fantasize or not... that is temptation. You haven't pictured yourself having sex with her yet.
But in a second or two you will. Can you stop yourself before your thoughts carry you away to that point? Once it gets to that point. It's sin.

Jesus hadn't eaten in 40 days. Bread probably sounded good to Him. Thinking bread is good isn't a sin. Thinking you are hungry isn't a sin.
But Jesus didn't actually turn the stones into bread. He would have failed the test at that point.

 

[At Peace]

Have no idea where you come up with this. I had not said anything close to that.

:]

You stated that there are "unsaved folks who are kinder and more giving then a lot of Christians".
This manifests that you don't know what Christians are like.
You compare the unGodly with...the unGodly..

 

[At Peace]

1. Initially, yes. Crusades started in self defense.
2. Yes. Self defense. We see Christ in the Geneva convention.
3. Some, perhaps. We can't generalize. Those who kidnapped the slaves, no. Those who abused the slaves, no. Those who accepted the situation created and brought Christ to the situation, yes.
4. Self defense is fine. If you don't defend your family, you have their blood on your hands.

So you see men that disobey the God who said..."Thou shalt not kill", and, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", and "Pray for those who spitefully use you".,as Christians.
Christians obey God.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I don't see it the same way:

• Matthew 5:27-28 27"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
• I would say, as in the above verse, lusting in the heart, even if there is absolutely no outward or external action, is a sin.
• If you ever, for one second, are tempted in your heart.....you have sinned!
• I would say that , in the "Temptation of Jesus" , the Devil hurled one temptation after another at Jesus but, not once, even in his heart, was Jesus ever tempted!

Not sure here of your point.
You quoted me saying

I agree but it sure took you long enough.

I said that to

The point I'm trying to make is that temptation is not a sin.

So I don't see how you can disagree with that.

Temptation can not turn into a sin until its acted on.
If the temptation is wrong.

I was tempted to tell some one in the forum they are full of themselves

I refused to do so and I did not sin.

Your enemy uses temptations to try and entice you to sin.
The temptation is not sin in you until you act on it

Have a very blessed day

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You stated that there are "unsaved folks who are kinder and more giving then a lot of Christians".
This manifests that you don't know what Christians are like.
You compare the unGodly with...the unGodly..

No it shows you are not grasping things. I said nothing of the sort.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I am at a loss...not because I clearly don't have an educated response but, because I feel exhausted, no matter what I say, you just don't see what I see!

Jesus hadn't eaten in 40 days. Bread probably sounded good to Him. Thinking bread is good isn't a sin. Thinking you are hungry isn't a sin.
But Jesus didn't actually turn the stones into bread. He would have failed the test at that point.

• Think at this point that bread would probably taste pretty good, yes.... it wasn't a sin to think this, yes.......So what is your point?
• He probably thought that bread would taste good, he didn't do it, and there is no evidence that he thought about turning rock into bread.

I see a woman on the street... Ok, I notice she is nice looking. That isn't a sin.

So what is your point? Jesus said if you have it in your heart, it is as if you had already done it. why can't you see that?

• We all know and believe that Jesus didn't physically do any of the things that the Devil tempted him with.
• Being tempted by someone is not the same as being tempted to do it.
• Though Satan was clearly tempting Jesus, there is no indication that Jesus was enticed in thought to do them...that would go against his statement in Matthew 5:28.
• The only thing you have is a false assumption what the semantics are of the word Tempted is.
• Knowing Jesus, being holy, righteous, pure, unblemished and perfect, there is no way he was enticed by Satan!

 

[KingJ]

So you see men that disobey the God who said..."Thou shalt not kill", and, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", and "Pray for those who spitefully use you".,as Christians.
Christians obey God.

You need to start thinking rationally. Paul encourages rational thought when he says 'come lets reason together'.

Looking after your family is obeying God. If your only option to save your child from rape is to kill the rapist, you kill the rapist. Otherwise you are guilty of a crime far worse then rape.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Temptation can not turn into a sin until its acted on.
If the temptation is wrong.

Temptation and enticed in your heart is!
How do you account for Matthew 5:28

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Temptation and enticed in your heart is!
How do you account for Matthew 5:28

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

The temptation to do so.
Vs
Doing So.

Just don't do so. Don't let it into your heart.
Heart meaning core which is Spirit

 

[B-A-C]

How do you account for Matthew 5:28

Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

It doesn't say everyone who looks at a woman [STOP HERE]. It says... "with lust for her". Those 4 words change everything.

Do you seriously look at every single woman "with lust for her"? You don't have to. For that matter do you look at any woman besides your wife.. "with lust for her".
You don't have to. The looking isn't a sin. It's the looking "with lust for her" that is the sinful part. I don't know about you, but honestly between you and me and God.
I don't look at other women.. "with lust for them". I notice them, yes. But I don't fantasize about them being naked, I don't think about having sex with them.

If this is a problem for you... I would seriously do some soul searching. If this is a problem "every" single day.. can you truly say you have repented?

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Adulterers will not enter the kingdom of God. How else can you interpret this verse? There is is no disclaimer or caveat here.... It doesn't say.. "except for Christians".
It doesn't say "except for those who believe in Jesus". It says if you are doing this... you will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Heb 13:4; Marriage is to be held in honor among all, and the marriage bed is to be undefiled; for fornicators and adulterers God will judge.

It says "among all" everyone. It doesn't say "unless you are a Christian". It says if you are doing this... God will judge you.

 

[Born Again 2004]

But I say, anyone who even looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

The temptation to do so.
Vs
Doing So.

Just don't do so. Don't let it into your heart.
Heart meaning core which is Spirit

I agree and I agree that God will provide a way....maybe, it is as simple as..."just don't do it".....like "just say no to drugs"! ....a lot of my sins are going away, the more I think God the more they go away....some are gone...some I am getting more and more control over...all the glory goes to God.
Now, my original thoughts in previous treads were with the "Temptation of Jesus" by the devil. Many say Jesus was tempted....they put a worldly spin on it...Jesus was tempted...i.e, the connotation is, even though he did not do any of the Devil's bidding,...he was tempted...he was enticed.

I say NO!...the " perfect Lamb Of God" was not even enticed in thought of doing any of it! He is he word and the word says it is a sin to even to have the thought ( Matthew 5:28), even though one does not do any of it physically. I think this is a good example: Never having a physical relationship with a woman but, being hooked of Pornography!

 

[At Peace]

No it shows you are not grasping things. I said nothing of the sort.

So-called Christians that don't act like Christians have as little chance of being saved as do unbelievers who do good or bad.
Thank God for giving all the time to "change".

 

[At Peace]

You need to start thinking rationally. Paul encourages rational thought when he says 'come lets reason together'.

Looking after your family is obeying God. If your only option to save your child from rape is to kill the rapist, you kill the rapist. Otherwise you are guilty of a crime far worse then rape.

You seem to deal in a world of "reaction", instead of one where your prayers contain words asking for help to avoid such dire circumstances beforehand.
I pray to God every day to keep me out of situations where I would be required to be violent with any man.
And I thank Him often for answering my prayers with peace.
Trust God instead of harming a foe.

 

[At Peace]

Temptation and enticed in your heart is!
How do you account for Matthew 5:28

There is a difference between "seeing" or "noticing" a woman and "leering" after her.