Case #1 For Tongue Speakers

[Enow]

A born again believer went to a seyance. She asked the medium to call for the Holy Spirit. As they held hands to seek the Holy Spirit, this born again believer experienced something coming over her as she finds herself speaking in tongues.

The next time she went to her church, everyone noted how much happier she was. When she began speaking in tongues as they were, they praised the Lord for they knew she had been disappointed in seeking the Holy Spirit to get the gift of tongues, and she had never gotten it.

When inquired as to when she got tongues, those she spoke to became alarmed. They chastened her for going to the medium.

She replied,"But if I ask God for the Holy Spirit, would He give me a stone? I asked for the Holy Spirit to come. And He did. See? I speak in tongues now."

What would you say?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You do not have to answer if you are stumped. Please do not read any of the other answers first before replying. This is an honest survey.

What would you say if you were there? What scriptures would you use to correct her? Or would you? Or would your church just kick her out?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Gracealone]

First off, the Holy Spirit, and demons do not work hand in hand.

Second, Not all of Gods children receive the same gifting, so I would say she was deceived and the language she spoke was not a gift from the Holy Spirit, but a counterfeit.
The same goes for when Saul sought guidance from other than God himself.

Why in the world would anyone who professes to be a Christian seek help from the devil just to get something they wanted apart from the will of God! :shock:

 

[Enow]

First off, the Holy Spirit, and demons do not work hand in hand.

Second, Not all of Gods children receive the same gifting, so I would say she was deceived and the language she spoke was not a gift from the Holy Spirit, but a counterfeit.
The same goes for when Saul sought guidance from other than God himself.

Why in the world would anyone who professes to be a Christian seek help from the devil just to get something they wanted apart from the will of God! :shock:

Thank you for your response. It wasn't the kind of reply I was looking for. I really wanted to know what you would say to her as per se in case if anyone out there should come across this similar scenario.

Your first point, she would agree with, but again, she would say that pointed statement of belief that if someone ask for the Holy Spirit to come, why wouldn't He and why would anything else would?

Your second point is true but from the lady's perpective, she had asked for the Holy Spirit and so it could not be a counterfeit.

To your third point: from the lady's point of view, she was desperate to make contact with the Holy Spirit. She wanted proof that she was a christian, and she figured that by using a medium that contact spirits as in specific spirit by name, why not ask for the Holy Spirit since the normal route as sought and gained by others was not working for her?

If you can imagine yourself there with her, I really would like to know what you would say to her. It is not meant to be a debate thread.

 

[Trishann]

Enow you don't go to unfamiliar spirits to get speaking in tongues from the Holy Spirit.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

 

[Gracealone]

I'm not trying to debate either ,but speak truth.....
I guess I am shocked at such a scenario to begin with!
Sorry if I have offended you, but......
I would say to her,
"Are you trying to tell me, you cannot ask God for His Holy Spirit, and not receive it,(?) yet ask at a seyance and receive a gift that God has not given? (speaking in tongues)

Not speaking in tongues doesn't mean you haven't received the gift of the Holy Spirit, nor does it mean you are not saved.

I would also say," Child, you received the Holy Spirit the hour you first believed!

Trust him, you may not have the gift of speaking in tongues, but you do have a spiritual gift.
God says so, his word also says," Not all will speak in tongues."

Use the gift God has given you, and you will be blessed ,and used of the Lord.
The gift of Faith is more important than speaking in tongues.
For without faith it is impossible to please God.

I would also add to her......
Run to your Saviour, sit at his feet, and seek his will for your life.
He will lead you in the way he wants you to go.

 

[Trishann]

Gracealone I agree with you. I know I was saved before I received this gift. And I also know the Holy Spirit abide in me before this.

Your sister in Christ, Trish :friends:

 

[Enow]

Enow you don't go to unfamiliar spirits to get speaking in tongues from the Holy Spirit.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

True, sister, but you can get a counterfeit as Gracealone will testify as this verse does.

Isaiah 8:19 19And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?

Just presenting a case for you to address should you come across someone someday.

What would you say to the lady.. for real?

 

[Enow]

Not speaking in tongues doesn't mean you haven't received the gift of the Holy Spirit, nor does it mean you are not saved.

I would also say," Child, you received the Holy Spirit the hour you first believed!

Trust him, you may not have the gift of speaking in tongues, but you do have a spiritual gift.
God says so, his word also says," Not all will speak in tongues."

Use the gift God has given you, and you will be blessed ,and used of the Lord.
The gift of Faith is more important than speaking in tongues.
For without faith it is impossible to please God.

I would also add to her......
Run to your Saviour, sit at his feet, and seek his will for your life.
He will lead you in the way he wants you to go.

Okay. Hold to those beliefs because I came across someone here in this forum that believed he was saved, but did not have the Holy Spirit until later when he got the gift of speaking in tongues. And he didn't get the gift by running to His Saviour, but to the Spirit. And no, he did not do it by a medium, just to be clear, but I do find the diversion alarming. John 14:6 1 Timothy 2:5 Philippians 1:11

I am not allowed to name names, so please don't ask.

 

[Gracealone]

Prayerfully he/she, will read these comments and Know that the Holy Spirit
dwells with in... the spirit is like the wind.
We cant see it, but know it is there by its moving.

I accepted the Lord as Saviour when I was 6 1/2 and didn't feel anything special either, but knew I had asked him into my heart!

He later made himself known to me by speaking to me verbally,and saving my life,and that of a friend with me... (11 then)
As we grow we see fruit of the spirit, and by the fruit we know we have eternal life.
Not seeing is where Faith comes in, without faith it is impossible to please God.
I pray for this one, that their heart be grounded in the word, and through faith alone in the finished work of Christ enter his peace, and come to know, that they know, and rest.

 

[Enow]

Prayerfully he/she, will read these comments and Know that the Holy Spirit
dwells with in...

I hope and pray so too.

the spirit is like the wind.
We cant see it, but know it is there by its moving.

You had lost me on that one. If the Holy Spirit dwells within, what need of He to be seen moving like the wind?

#1. I had always thought that the line of discernment is the Holy Spirit is within and what is outside... as in the world..as in the church.. is not.

#2. And isn't the reference to the wind is about being born again and not about the moving of the Spirit?

Not seeing is where Faith comes in, without faith it is impossible to please God.

I agree. One should have their words and deeds match their faith. You would be amazed at how many believers will alter their testimonies in regards to the Gospel when a supernatural event of what they believed to be the Holy Spirit happens later in life in their walk with the Lord.

I pray for this one, that their heart be grounded in the word, and through faith alone in the finished work of Christ enter his peace, and come to know, that they know, and rest.

I do not doubt that the believer I am speaking of is saved, but as God addresses the seven churches in Revelation in pruning away that which does not represent the faith in Jesus Christ, so should we need His help to do that with our own testimonies so that our faith may be seen as apart from the rudiment that is found in the world and not after Christ.

 

[Gracealone]

John 3:7-8

Marvel not that I said unto thee Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth, so is every one that is born of the spirit.

Vrs :12 says ,If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?

 

[golfjack]

reply

Allow me to try and resolve this issue about tongues. Yes, There are nine gifts of the Spirit that God will distribute as He wills. But the Gift of speaking in tongues is a free gift just like salvation. All we have to do is ask for the Gift of tongues. Why? Because it is free. The other way to receive is to have hands laid on us, which the Believers in the Book of Acts did, by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Hope this helps.


Peace, Golfjack

 

[Coconut]

A born again believer went to a seyance. She asked the medium to call for the Holy Spirit. As they held hands to seek the Holy Spirit, this born again believer experienced something coming over her as she finds herself speaking in tongues.

The next time she went to her church, everyone noted how much happier she was. When she began speaking in tongues as they were, they praised the Lord for they knew she had been disappointed in seeking the Holy Spirit to get the gift of tongues, and she had never gotten it.

When inquired as to when she got tongues, those she spoke to became alarmed. They chastened her for going to the medium.

She replied,"But if I ask God for the Holy Spirit, would He give me a stone? I asked for the Holy Spirit to come. And He did. See? I speak in tongues now."

What would you say?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You do not have to answer if you are stumped. Please do not read any of the other answers first before replying. This is an honest survey.

What would you say if you were there? What scriptures would you use to correct her? Or would you? Or would your church just kick her out?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The scripture she quoted is TRUE, the problem is in who she was asking.
She did not ask God in this particular instance, she asked Satan.


Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

 

[Coconut]

Enow you don't go to unfamiliar spirits to get speaking in tongues from the Holy Spirit.

Your sister in Christ, Trish

amen, sometimes the simple truth only requires a simple response


(I didnt read these responses until after I answered as requested) :wink:

 

[Enow]

John 3:7-8

Marvel not that I said unto thee Ye must be born again.

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth, so is every one that is born of the spirit.

Vrs :12 says ,If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?

That is what I mean. Jesus was referring to the wind in regards to being born again, not about the moving of the Spirit.

And how is one born again? By coming to Jesus to be saved.

 

[Enow]

Allow me to try and resolve this issue about tongues. Yes, There are nine gifts of the Spirit that God will distribute as He wills. But the Gift of speaking in tongues is a free gift just like salvation. All we have to do is ask for the Gift of tongues. Why? Because it is free. The other way to receive is to have hands laid on us, which the Believers in the Book of Acts did, by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Hope this helps.


Peace, Golfjack

Thank you for your reply, Golfjack.

I am not totally agreeing with what you have shared only because it was in the way you had coveyed certain points about the gift of tongues.

What you have shared has been known to cause someone to believe that they should be able to speak in tongues then. It is free... like salvation. If they do not get tongues at all no matter how hard they had sought it, what is to keep them from believing they are not saved then, since getting the gift of tongues is free like salvation?

The other point of contention I have heard is that tongues being least of all the gifts, is the easiest to get, therefore, if they do not speak in tongues, then they do not have the Holy Spirit, and thus they are not saved.

This #1. Case for the Tongue Speakers is the last ditch effort of a born again believer to get tongues before accepting the inevitable conclusion which would lead to case #2 for the Tongue Speakers which is also in this folder under another thread's title as listed.

That being said, I would like for you to respond to this imaginary scenario of Case #1 & Case #2 because, I have read reports of people turning to the occult simply because they are led to believe they are not His.

By your standard of belief, how would you address the lady that believed in using a medium to contact a specific spirit: the Holy Spirit and somehow, she got tongues by the Holy Spirit or so she claims?

Keep in mind the last act of a desperate born again believer on the verge of believing she is not saved because by your standard, the gift of tongue is free like salvation... and she wasn't getting tongues by the way the others were, and yet she was because she addressed the Holy Spirit by the medium which she did not see the difference between what the others were doing in asking for the Holy Spirit.

She believed that God would not send a stone if you ask for the Holy Spirit and so, disregarding the "cheating method" of using the medium for help, she believed that by asking for the Holy Spirit, He would come and nothing else would.

What would you say to her by your standard of belief about tongues? I must admit, I cannot fathom what you would say to her or to the guy in case #2.

 

[Enow]

The scripture she quoted is TRUE, the problem is in who she was asking.
She did not ask God in this particular instance, she asked Satan.


Mat 7:7 "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
Mat 7:8 For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Thanks for replying, Coconut.

Speaking from the woman's stance, she would claim that she had asked specifically for the Holy Spirit. She did not ask for Satan at all. She believed that promise from God is that if she asked for the Holy Spirit, He will come and nothing else would. She believed that the use of the medium would not be held against her because she asked for the Holy Spirit and no other spirit. (Not making excuses for her but I really think she would say that)

The verses you quoted has been used by others in justifying asking for the Holy Spirit... by asking the Holy Spirit.

I will point out the reference to the knocking in verse seven as Jesus is the Door. If the promise of God is by Jesus Christ, then what better way to avoid all rationalization and heed the commandment given when seeking the gift of tongues, they should do so by Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:11Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

John 16:13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

As believers are receiving the gift of tongues by seeking after the Holy Spirit, I cannot help but see this as a serios breaking of this commandment when approaching God the Father in worship.

John 14: 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

I cannot help but see that by asking the Holy Spirit for the gift of tongue or to come when He is in us as promised, one is going around Jesus in getting this gift because the Holy Spirit is not the Mediator.

1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

By going to Jesus, they would receive tongues that comes with interpretation.

John 10:4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Any other way is getting tongues with no interpretation.

John 10: 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

Only because they broke the commandment of John 14:6 by climbing up another way to get tongues.

John 10: 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

Now people will insist that the Holy Spirit being God, it would be okay to go to Him in prayer and calling for Him, but three things are being ignored:

#1. He is in us so there is no going to the Holy Spirit in prayer. He can never be inbetween us and Jesus: He is in us pointing us to go to Jesus as faithful witnesses should be doing also: John 15:26-27

#2. Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, and thus prayer is made towards the throne of grace. Hebrews 4:14-16.

#3. Jesus is the only way declared by the scriptures in coming to God the Father... in prayer.. in worship... and in honouring God the Father which is what the Holy Spirit is us is leading us to do.. to honour the Son, and thereby the Father. John 5:22-23

#4. There are false spirits as well as false prophets in the world so all eyes should be on the Son as believers are called to narrow that way to that straight gate Luke 13:24 and ignore all attempts by false prophets and false spirits to deter us from that narrow way in relating to God the Father through the Son by broadening the way. Matthew 7:13-15

Anyway, by medium.. or by personally seeking the Spirit from the Spirit... the format is the same as being found in the world. People use Mark 7:7-11 as justification in how they got tongues by going after the Spirit, but the verses says asking it from the Father... not the Spirit.

And Jesus is the only Way in coming to the Father as we should be knocking at the Door of Jesus as the promises of God holds are yes in Jesus Christ, not by any other way... neither by medium or even by seeking the Spirit by going to the Spirit on your own.

 

[Enow]

amen, sometimes the simple truth only requires a simple response


(I didnt read these responses until after I answered as requested) :wink:

Thanks, Coconut. Hopefully, more will participate.

I also hope that if anyone spots error by His grace, they may edify the poster in the knowledge of Him by His grace, and not ignore the error.

 

[golfjack]

reply

:groupwave:Let's see what the Bible has to say about this subject. John 7:37-39, 37. In the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto Me, and drink.

38. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow riivers of living water.

The water referred tto in both passages is a type of the Holy Spirit. Notice that two different experiences are spoken of.

First, to the woman at the well of Samaria Jesus said, but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. Here Jesus was referring to the Holy spirit in the act of regeneration or salvation.

The other referrence is to rivers of living water, and speaks of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus beckons us to come and drink and get full? Someone may ask. For the answer, let us look at Acts 2:4: and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. This is the initial sign or evidence that you are filled. :wink:

 

[Boanerges]

The irrational fear of the gifts of God will not change the Word of God nor limit the gifts in those who have the faith to walk in them.