China - The World - Corona virus

[Chad]

This is what I see in this world...deception. Deception from mainstream media, political governments, people. Trust is virtually impossible on a larger scale.

That being said, I like to keep things minimal and this is what I think of:

Matthew 24:6-8

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings brother

You have me a little concerned my friend.

@Brother-Paul you are all over the place on this. This morning you post a video saying that the low death rate in Beijing and Shanghai is evidence that the Chinese government manufactured the virus and is using it to destroy other nations. (It's not evidence, it's just a wild irresponsible speculation).

This afternoon, you have changed your tune altogether and are saying that the low death rate is evidence of Chinese suppression of the true effects of the disease. You can't have it both ways.

The only consistent thing is your assertion of foul play by China.

You are on a public forum which has an international audience, and you have already caused at least one person great offence. Please show a little bit of wisdom and grace and hold back from posting inflammatory and ill-informed messages.

Firstly my posts on this thread were the original post with video yesterday 8:22PM
My next post was in reply to @Dave M today at 1.24PM
Followed by another at 2.35PM today
You mention I posted this morning???

Following a quote by @Enxu I replied quoting Beijing and Shanghai as follows...

Regarding the facts, allow me please to share some with you. But firstly my heart is in prayer with all who have lost loved ones to the virus, worldwide, including China, repeat worldwide. It is not good that even one should perish, be they are and in large numbers.

You commented on three areas in China, using the ones in the video.
City of Beijing lost around 600 souls - population of 21.5 million
City Shanghai lost around 600 souls - population of 27 million

I cannot speak for USA as I do not have the facts, but look, please look at the numbers of deaths elsewhere in the world.

UK deaths to yesterday - 16060 hospitals only, estimated up to 7500 died of Covid-19 in care homes, and many other deaths at home. UK population 65 million.

That does not say what you are referring to brother?

@Enxu quoted in Post #13 that I had not considered the fact! I replied in post #19 detailing some of the facts. He was saying deaths of 600 was a lot, I totally agree, but in line with some of what was said in the video, these are extremely small numbers compared to other countries, Italy, Spain, France, USA, etc

I then quoted deaths in the UK to yesterday, and also noted hospital deaths are not the total number of deaths, they do not include care home deaths and other deaths in the country. 600 compared to 20000 is a significant difference.

I cannot speak for USA as I do not have the facts, but look, please look at the numbers of deaths elsewhere in the world.

UK deaths to yesterday - 16060 hospitals only, estimated up to 7500 died of Covid-19 in care homes, and many other deaths at home. UK population 65 million.

I intended to PM you tonight to thank you for your kind comments, I thanks you now brother.

Hope this clarifies my intentions and posts on here.

Matthew 24:6-8 (NKJV)
6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Luke 21:9-11 (NKJV)
9 But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."
10 Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
11 And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven.

Shalom

 

[Brother-Paul]

This is what I see in this world...deception. Deception from mainstream media, political governments, people. Trust is virtually impossible on a larger scale.

That being said, I like to keep things minimal and this is what I think of:

Matthew 24:6-8

You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.

Trust starts and ends from above. Thank you Father, thank you Jesus, thank you Holy Spirit, Your Word is Truth. In Jesus Name we give you thanks and praise. Amen

Proverbs 3:5-6 (NKJV)
Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.

 

[Enxu]

You really want to start on this don’t you?

How can saying things like this be nice, Jesus says do not be like the hypocrites, is not talking like this being hypocritical?

How can posting a video with ZERO statistic or news articles and then labelling it as “THE FACTS” not be hypocritical?

I appreciate you are upset, but China is a communist country, ruled by dictators, how many of them are Christians my friend? There are many Christian's in China, Praise the Lord, but China has a reputation as a communist country even in the current days.

Oh I don’t need an education on the evils of communism, but capitalism is two sides of the same coin. Do you really suppose your side of the world is heaven just because you guys are not communists? Give me a break and look at the statistics of abortion and whatnots in the West.

Regarding the facts, allow me please to share some with you. But firstly my heart is in prayer with all who have lost loved ones to the virus, worldwide, including China, repeat worldwide. It is not good that even one should perish, be they are and in large numbers.

You commented on three areas in China, using the ones in the video.
City of Beijing lost around 600 souls - population of 21.5 million
City Shanghai lost around 600 souls - population of 27 million

I cannot speak for USA as I do not have the facts, but look, please look at the numbers of deaths elsewhere in the world.

UK deaths to yesterday - 16060 hospitals only, estimated up to 7500 died of Covid-19 in care homes, and many other deaths at home. UK population 65 million.

Look at deaths in Italy and Spain and other countries, nothing like China.

What about Wuhan where the virus originates, where is started. The death figure quoted was 2579 with a population of 12 million souls. Last week a man from Wuhan in China spoke to the media (not Chinese media), a picture was shown of a large area of graves, he said the death toll was massive, could be 10 times higher than what Chinese authorities have quoted. Next day they raised the total deaths by 1290 around 50% to 3869. Strange it was the next day after the Chinese man made the statement, will the man been seen again? We do not know. All deaths are sad, but the deaths in China appear to be extremely small to those in the rest of the world.

The economy shows a similar picture, China has only lost a very small percentage compared to losses in countries across the world.

So the facts are pretty clear to see my friend, the Chinese authorities are not Christians, they tell the world what they want the world to know. I am sorry it has upset you, as a brother in Christ I do pray peace in your heart, the aim was not to knock a country as you suggest, just to share some facts, that is all I have done here.

Sadly, the video you’ve posted labelled the number of infected “A FEW” yet you supported it even though now you post here that you don’t think 600 is a small number. I still smell hypocrisy there.

Also, the RELATIVELY few numbers of death and infected in China merely shows that China put it under better control than the rest of the world, and is a FAR CRY away from what you are subtly trying to assert with that garbage video: that China is the culprit for spreading the virus and is thus a global threat.

In fact the actual news I’ve posted from Israel media showed that the US is secretly aware of Covid outbreak in China way before it was made public in China and is a HUGE clue as to who might be the REAL culprit. Yet you continued on with your China supremacy threat like nobody’s business. Hypocrisy and a fishy intention to spread malicious gossip are the only things I saw from a supposedly Christian “brother”.

Need I remind you that the UK was once an empire that had military presence in many parts of the world including Asia? Even China did not have such a military history and at most only dominated parts of Asia. Maybe I should start a thread about the HISTORICALLY VERIFIABLE supremacy of the UK and how that could mean UK is a threat?

 

[Enxu]

The most ludicrous thing about this thread is that communism becomes the reason why China is labelled as a threat. Yet, the origins of communism was actually in the West by a GERMAN philosopher called Karl Marx. So why is nobody labelling Germany as a threat

 

[Brother-Paul]

Peace be with you

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings to everyone on this thread.

It is somewhat sad and embarrassing that a You Tube video claiming to be factual is posted on a Christian forum and is accusatory towards the nation of China.

I have edited out of the title "THE FACTS" as this is the subjective opinion of the original poster.

The whole world is seeped in corruption.
China is no more corrupt than anywhere else in the world.
Countries like the UK, the USA and Australia may label themselves as Christian and above the dictatorship run countries.........but that is not true. Corruption reigns at different levels and for different reasons everywhere.

As Christians we should not be looking around the world and blaming others.

We should be looking to Jesus. We should be seeking and sharing His perfect love and peace.

Covid-19 is a symptom and sign of the times we live in.
The coming of the Lord draws closer.........let's pray that we have the courage to share the Gospel not gossip about other nations.

Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 4:29-32

The thread you started has now been reopened @Brother-Paul.
Please post in love and peace

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings all,

I would like to take this opportunity to apologise for adding the word FACTS to the post in this thread. It was not done intentionally, but was obviously without sufficient prayer and thought, the last thing I would want to do is upset a dear brother in Christ, for that I truly repent and apologise. When I came back to the post a day later I was so shocked, I was hurt because I had hurt another.

These are very frustrating times for all, we know it will get worse, but we are to love one another as our Lord loves us, for that part I failed on this occassion, I have spent time with our Lord, He knows our hearts.

Thank you all for your love and your understanding, may the Good Lord Bless you all in abundance, even to over flowing.

Jesus is Lord.

Shalom

 

[Dave M]

China leaders of the gonv are bad people, this does not mean the nation of China is bad, the people are some of the best Christians on the planet.

 

[Enxu]

I have forgiven the OP though I’ve spoken very harshly about this. This tends to be my response when something happens that reminds me of what I myself went through. Like I said earlier I know the pain of being the subject of malicious and ill-willed gossip and seeing a thread like this just sets me off.

I repent too if I’ve caused any brother to stumble because of my offense. I am far from a Christian like Paul or Peter so many times I fall short. Yet God was faithful in not abandoning me, He does know our heart and if we are truthful to Him He honours that and shows us much patience and longsuffering. I can personally testify to that because of the many ways I failed to live up to His expectations.

Be blessed, even those who get offended by my posts/threads.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I have forgiven the OP though I’ve spoken very harshly about this. This tends to be my response when something happens that reminds me of what I myself went through. Like I said earlier I know the pain of being the subject of malicious and ill-willed gossip and seeing a thread like this just sets me off.

I repent too if I’ve caused any brother to stumble because of my offense. I am far from a Christian like Paul or Peter so many times I fall short. Yet God was faithful in not abandoning me, He does know our heart and if we are truthful to Him He honours that and shows us much patience and longsuffering. I can personally testify to that because of the many ways I failed to live up to His expectations.

Be blessed, even those who get offended by my posts/threads.

Greeting @Enxu

I was not offended by what you said brother, my concern was that I had hurt another brother in Christ.

I appreciate there is evil and wickedness in all countries, some definitely more than others, my error in this post was posting the video as 'facts'.

We all have concern for the way some countries are run, we all could create different lists I am sure.

We are told by our Lord to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. We are to love the sinners even though we do not agree with them, or possibly do not trust them.

These are the latter days of the end times, they are exciting times, but they are also troublesome times, with an increase in wickedness and hardening of heart probably unlike any other time. More importantly it is a time to be even more ready for our Lord's return than any other, if you know what I mean. The most important thing we can all do is, love one another as Christ loves us, reach out to lost souls worldwide, pray for one another and stand firm on the Rock of Ages, Christ is our Rock.

Proverbs 3:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

Shalom

 

[Trevor]

Greeting @Enxu

I was not offended by what you said brother, my concern was that I had hurt another brother in Christ.

I appreciate there is evil and wickedness in all countries, some definitely more than others, my error in this post was posting the video as 'facts'.

We all have concern for the way some countries are run, we all could create different lists I am sure.

We are told by our Lord to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. We are to love the sinners even though we do not agree with them, or possibly do not trust them.

These are the latter days of the end times, they are exciting times, but they are also troublesome times, with an increase in wickedness and hardening of heart probably unlike any other time. More importantly it is a time to be even more ready for our Lord's return than any other, if you know what I mean. The most important thing we can all do is, love one another as Christ loves us, reach out to lost souls worldwide, pray for one another and stand firm on the Rock of Ages, Christ is our Rock.

Proverbs 3:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

Shalom

We are aliens In this world and as such, citizens of the kingdom of heaven. We need to leave our old allegiencies behind and embrace our new home. A man once said to a Christian in France, "Oh your a French Christian", "No brother, I am a Christian who lives in France". I heard this story once and thought it was a good analogy.Bless you all.

 

[Brother-Paul]

We are aliens In this world and as such, citizens of the kingdom of heaven. We need to leave our old allegiencies behind and embrace our new home. A man once said to a Christian in France, "Oh your a French Christian", "No brother, I am a Christian who lives in France". I heard this story once and thought it was a good analogy.Bless you all.

I have heard similar brother,

But we also hear I am a RCC Christian, I am a protestant Christian, I am a Baptist Christian!

There is only one type of Christian, the born again, spirit filled Christian, a follower of Christ with the Holy Ghost abiding in them

That rype of Christian, the only type of Christian is a spiritual stone, part of the ekklesia.

Bless you

 

[Trevor]

I have heard similar brother,

But we also hear I am a RCC Christian, I am a protestant Christian, I am a Baptist Christian!

There is only one type of Christian, the born again, spirit filled Christian, a follower of Christ with the Holy Ghost abiding in them

That rype of Christian, the only type of Christian is a spiritual stone, part of the ekklesia.

Bless you

I am with you there bro, I have nothing to do with the abomination of denominations, like you I am a living stone and wherever two or more of us come together our Lord is there among us. Our fellowship, by the way, goes by the name of Living Stones. Bless you.

 

[Enxu]

Greeting @Enxu

I was not offended by what you said brother, my concern was that I had hurt another brother in Christ.

I appreciate there is evil and wickedness in all countries, some definitely more than others, my error in this post was posting the video as 'facts'.

We all have concern for the way some countries are run, we all could create different lists I am sure.

We are told by our Lord to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. We are to love the sinners even though we do not agree with them, or possibly do not trust them.

These are the latter days of the end times, they are exciting times, but they are also troublesome times, with an increase in wickedness and hardening of heart probably unlike any other time. More importantly it is a time to be even more ready for our Lord's return than any other, if you know what I mean. The most important thing we can all do is, love one another as Christ loves us, reach out to lost souls worldwide, pray for one another and stand firm on the Rock of Ages, Christ is our Rock.

Proverbs 3:5-7 (NKJV)
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil.

Shalom

Don’t be hard on yourself, I also understand that people in the West have a pretty negative view of China’s government due to what they perceived from the media. It is hard to stay objective. I lived outside of China for many years in the 1990s and 2000s and this prevalent negative view of communist China caused me much personal pain. I was ostracised simply for coming from a communist country and stayed bitter for many years over this (but then I was not a Christian).

From a Christian point of view, I don’t support any form of media propaganda that seeks to paint any party, race, country in a negatively biased way. I find it ungodly and Un-Christlike because of the mistrust, animosity and hate among people this kind of propaganda sows. Furthermore many such propaganda are based on perceptions and not facts. That is how most wars start, a false propaganda that demonises the other side. I don’t think as Christians we should have any part in these things.

Does China have a godly government? No, the one child policy and cultural revolution were ungodly political movements that caused many innocent lives to be killed. But I think China’s overall spiritual state is that of deception rather than an outright anti-God rebellion. China never started out as a Christian nation since Qing dynasty fell, generations upon generations of Chinese had no clue God even exists. Communism was introduced into China from an outside source as a possible political solution in a time of poverty, civil unrest, corruption and desperation for stability. China was barely recovering from civil unrest after the Qing dynasty was defeated by foreign invaders and the Second World War that followed shortly after. Most of the civilians never had the chance to debate or consider what Communism really is because people were either dead in war or dying from poverty.

Why is the Christian God often rejected by the Chinese? It was exactly because the Chinese have an equally biased and negative view of the West. Just like China is being portrayed as a threat to the West, the same is being relayed to the Chinese because the US is always acting in a way that offends China. The more the US demonises China, the more it seems to the Chinese that the West, along with its Christian religion, is to be rejected as evil.

Furthermore, it was the Christian West (along with a few others) that invaded China, overthrew the Qing dynasty and caused much suffering to ordinary civilians. It is not China’s fault then that the Christian faith is rejected or negatively portrayed. God sees these things and He will judge China accordingly.

I really hope that more compassion can come from the West rather than animosity. It is most unfortunate that Christianity is rejected just because the West fails to act in a Christlike manner to a communist country.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greeting brother,

We are to pray for those in authority! It is clear to see why, where ever we live.

Although I accept part of what you say regarding the media, I can confirm that some situations are filmed secretly to show what is happen and it is clear the things reported are correct.

A mentioned a Chinese guy was being interviewed, from Wuhan, he showed a massive area of gravestones, not seeing them close but from a distance, we do not know if all died due to covid-19. But he openly mentioned the figures quoted for Wuhan were grossly incorrect, the death rate is probably 10x the amount stated by the Chinese authorities. I doubt this man will be seen again.

The way a country portrays itself is also a big reason the country is not trusted.

I wasn't singling out China, if I honestly admit the following are all of concern and probably more.
Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey and some Arab countries.

We must pray for all in authority, including EVERY Government, of EVERY country in the world. We should pray that their wicked ways will be exposed, as a country and as an official in the country. In Jesus Name. Amen

We must love our neighbour as ourself, but we are not to accept their sins.

 

[Andyindauk]

I agree with much of what Enxu says, China does get a bad press. In years gone by presidents, prime ministers and world leaders would give a very lip service lecture to China's president on human rights before signing a trade deal but over the last 5 years that's been dispensed with. But the issue of human rights whilst overlooked by western governments is one that we should not allow to fade into our subconscious. Our brothers and sisters in China are suffering in ways that should shock us. One reported example In China, they’re closing churches, jailing pastors – and even rewriting scripture

So please can we drop the jingoistic anti this government or that government cries that are stoked up by nationalist politicians on all sides keen to rabble-rouse to bolster their electoral base by promoting suspicion, mistrust, antipathy and a drawbridge mentality? We as Christians (light of the world) shouldn't get drawn into this but instead rise above it and give credit for the good things that China has achieved but at the same time be a thorn in the side regarding issues that that government would prefer to be kept swept under the carpet. Right at the top is the awful treatment of our poor dear brothers and sisters but there are others such as their contribution towards global warming, the environment and the extinction of wildlife species. All of these are likely to cancel the massive achievements of China, how they have transformed their economy from subsistence to a global superpower and in so doing made a massive contribution towards world trade. The work they've done in Africa, a continent largely ignored by the west with the exception of the UK who just exploited it for hundreds of years starting with the slave trade.

Not wanting to stray too far off topic, the west needs to look east at how they have dealt with Corona virus and learn lessons. Had a fraction of the money that western governments spent on the economic consequences of lockdown been instead spent on testing, tracing and isolating those with the virus, Covid would be overcome, businesses and jobs saved. Instead Easter Sunday, no church, we are in lockdown.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Greetings @Andyindauk

I agree with a lot of what you say but what I put above was...

I wasn't singling out China, if I honestly admit the following are all of concern and probably more.
Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey and some Arab countries.

The reason for adding the above was to take away any thoughts of finger pointing at China only, although none was intentional from the beginning. All of these countries have given reason for concern in recent ti.rs, the first six for sure and Iran even in the last week.

We must pray for all in authority, including EVERY Government, of EVERY country in the world. We should pray that their wicked ways will be exposed, as a country and as an official in the country. In Jesus Name. Amen

I stand by my prayer that all wickedness in all governments, including our own, be exposed. As a government, what ever party, or as an individual in what ever party.

May the light of Christ shine bright in the world.

Churchill's words were were important and true, 'evil prevails when good men do nothing'. Pray, pray, pray, that the evil and sickness be revealed, according to the will of God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in Jesus Name, Amen.

Shalom

 

[Brother-Paul]

We also know that we are in the latter days, Jesus has been given all authority, He is waiting to return in Glory, we are waiting for His return in Glory.

Although we are to keep our eyes on Jesus, and be ready, oil lamps filled and trimmed, we also know from The Word certain things will happen.

We know the final battle will come from Rosh in the north, Russia, and from the east, I and many believe will be China.

Since 1948 there have been a massive amount of changes, slow at first, showing in places next, as in pregnancy we are now seeing the birth pangs. Russia, the Iron curtain, nobody ever believed the Berlin wall would be removed. China one of the poorest countries in the world, now the second richest in the world.

Russia is spreading it wings worldwide, look how they have come down to the Mediterranean with Soshi and other areas, designed to be holiday areas, but bringing Russia towards Israel. Look at Russia's involvement with Syria, killing with no conscience. Look at Russia's threats to the uk, playing mind games, testing capabilities. Sailing war ships down the English Channel with guns and all on board facing the UK. Several time recently the RAF have had to scramble and intercept Russian fighter jets close to the uk. The last one many spoke of loud bangs, the RAF had to hit the air and open up fast that the speed of sound to intercept. We are not the only country experiencing their ready for war games

The world is changing fast, scripture tells us a time is coming, when we see Israel surrounded all sides, that happened in 1967 with the incredible 6 day war, but was just a wake up call for what is coming to the world.

Thank God for Jesus.

We cannot help but see these things but we must keep out eyes on Jesus, and be ready at all times.

 

[Andyindauk]

We also know that we are in the latter days, Jesus has been given all authority, He is waiting to return in Glory, we are waiting for His return in Glory.

Although we are to keep our eyes on Jesus, and be ready, oil lamps filled and trimmed, we also know from The Word certain things will happen.

We know the final battle will come from Rosh in the north, Russia, and from the east, I and many believe will be China.

Since 1948 there have been a massive amount of changes, slow at first, showing in places next, as in pregnancy we are now seeing the birth pangs. Russia, the Iron curtain, nobody ever believed the Berlin wall would be removed. China one of the poorest countries in the world, now the second richest in the world.

Russia is spreading it wings worldwide, look how they have come down to the Mediterranean with Soshi and other areas, designed to be holiday areas, but bringing Russia towards Israel. Look at Russia's involvement with Syria, killing with no conscience. Look at Russia's threats to the uk, playing mind games, testing capabilities. Sailing war ships down the English Channel with guns and all on board facing the UK. Several time recently the RAF have had to scramble and intercept Russian fighter jets close to the uk. The last one many spoke of loud bangs, the RAF had to hit the air and open up fast that the speed of sound to intercept. We are not the only country experiencing their ready for war games

The world is changing fast, scripture tells us a time is coming, when we see Israel surrounded all sides, that happened in 1967 with the incredible 6 day war, but was just a wake up call for what is coming to the world.

Thank God for Jesus.

We cannot help but see these things but we must keep out eyes on Jesus, and be ready at all times.

I would really caution against guessing from whence the antichrist and false prophet might arise and allow that to colour our views and dealings with any particular country.

I've heard preachers put forward and passionately preach on other likely sources of the beginnings of the end of the world including the Catholic church and the EU. For that reason I still voted remain

One thing's for sure, even second coming experts aren't aware of dozens of Bible passages that unbeknown to us are actually prophetic in the same way that Jesus revealed prophecies to the experts of His day. For example, giving Jesus vinegar to drink,
They also gave me gall for my food, And for my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Psalms 69:21 NKJV
Who at the time would have thought that was a prophecy? I do know that when it's closer the unfolding events will be unmistakable.

We as Christians need to focus more on the here and now and concentrate on being that light of the world.