Christian rock

[rufusisrael]

This is in response to Peace Seeker

Oh brother I know all the scripture you quoted but you did not get me a bit of what I meant, yes it was done in old testament and God approved it, because it was done in all holiness, the proof is the glory of God came down as they played and worshiped, do you find such thing now a days? do you expect with christian rock God's glory to come down? ridiculous, never happened and will never ever. yet If you wish to play go ahead, I warned you since I experienced it as an evil thing now it is your own wish. Worldly music would never please God, it is an abomination, it does not make any difference if you believe that it would, cause the fact is fact, you cannot compare christian rock music with old testament worship. They worshiped God in spirit and in truth and they proved it by pleasing God as the glory of God filled the temple, cause there was holiness of God in that music and worship, do you find any such evidence in christian rock? if god is displeased with your music it is purely a sin in His sight whether it means god pleasing to me or you. Go enjoy it, relish it and be prepared for the consequences.

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Amo 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
Amo 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

 

[Boanerges]

good point but
a question could be asked:
is worship for singular purpose or is it for the Body when they meet, worship being in this case only the cute term used for music and song?
worship is perhaps something quite different than secular church performances
for singular worship which does not edify the Body, a mountain or stream or even a closet will do
for group or Body worship is rock going to do what we might really call worship?
just wondering

If you do not mind my rambling, I would like to share a few thoughts with you.

There is a (sometimes) underlying tone of dislike, disdain, and sometimes hatred towards members of the body of Christ that meet and worship corporately shown in this forum; I believe it is simply a religious bent of a few but that is of course only my opinion.
In truth, it is fine to be different, but one must be mature enough to realize that the it is also okay for others to worship in a different manner.
If your heart is engaged in loving God there is no difference in singing love songs to Him with a group of believers or without; Either way He hears your heart-song and He is pleased. I have never seen anything I could call "secular worship", that is simply an oxymoron.
While there are some dead churches that could be considered country clubs, there are even more dead religious people who forsake the assembling of the brethren hiding out at home- the flesh is the flesh no matter where it is found.

Where you worship does not matter if your heart is towards God.

How you are worshiping, what it sounds like, the style of music (or the lack thereof) these make no difference either for He is looking at your heart.

The closet is no holier that meeting with brothers and sisters to magnify God- both are in good order and neither should be neglected.

My question is this- why do I find so much rage here directed at the very one's He loved enough to die for? If something is not a salvation issue then is it worth an attempt at a "Christian Jihad?"
If another belongs to Christ then He will draw and change him till he is where his Lord wants him to be (spiritually and otherwise). If he does not belong to God then he needs your prayer and not your condemnation.

One last thought:
The Word of God commands us to "speak the truth in Love". If we leave the love out we are no way representing the heart of God for He Himself is Love.

Many blessings in Jesus Name,
your brother Larry.

 

[Peace Seeker]

This is in response to Peace Seeker

Oh brother I know all the scripture you quoted but you did not get me a bit of what I meant, yes it was done in old testament and God approved it, because it was done in all holiness, the proof is the glory of God came down as they played and worshiped, do you find such thing now a days? do you expect with christian rock God's glory to come down? ridiculous, never happened and will never ever. yet If you wish to play go ahead, I warned you since I experienced it as an evil thing now it is your own wish. Worldly music would never please God, it is an abomination, it does not make any difference if you believe that it would, cause the fact is fact, you cannot compare christian rock music with old testament worship. They worshiped God in spirit and in truth and they proved it by pleasing God as the glory of God filled the temple, cause there was holiness of God in that music and worship, do you find any such evidence in christian rock? if god is displeased with your music it is purely a sin in His sight whether it means god pleasing to me or you. Go enjoy it, relish it and be prepared for the consequences.

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
Amo 5:22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
Amo 5:23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
Amo 5:24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.

Brother Rufus,
The above are not prophetic scriptures written to modern-day worshipers that happen to use a style of music that you don't like. These words in Isaiah and Amos were judgments against an apostate Israel that had gone ******* after false gods and done many more evils. That is why God says here that He won't listen to their viols, accept their offerings, etc. So you are really taking these verses out of context and stretching things in order to justify your disdain for Christian rock. [TABLE="class: table_bible"]
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[TD="class: td_bible_text"]What in your opinion meets your strict, harsh guidelines for "proper" music? And is all music supposed to be worship music? Do you have dictates similar to your musical stance for what you can wear, eat and read?
[h=3]Colossians 2:21-23[/h]
21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.



Do you think God is always angry, so you better watch out? If you listen to Christian music by so-and-so, God is waiting with a thunderbolt in His hand to strike you down? It is as if you are saying God will not accept praise and adoration of Him unless it is with unplugged music - using only prescribed instruments - and presumably a 10th century B.C. lyre would be the ultimate choice?

King David wrote some amazing songs and words (actually through God, but anyway), but you and I do not know what instruments he would be using if he were alive today and playing songs to the Lord. One time David was so ecstatically joyful that he danced naked before the Lord. Tell me how many holier-than-thou's in today's church world would be horrified at the idea of a man of God dancing naked! Yet I see nothing in the bible that says God was displeased with that expression of joy and worship of David's. In fact, the person who complained about it was punished by God!

Point being, it is the heart that matters when we approach God, whether it is musically or any other way. If I said, "thank you Lord for giving me the gift of playing this trumpet, sax, marimba, drums, trombone, guitar, really loud gong, etc. for you, and then played them joyfully to the Lord, with praise for Him in my heart, you're saying God will be displeased? Nonsense. God isn't any less interested in "XYZ" music than He is in "ABC" music.

Make a joyful NOISE to the Lord!

Noise isn't even music!
[h=3]1 Corinthians 10:31[/h]
31 Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.



Lastly, please show me some scripture that agrees with your stance on Christian rock, so I can ascertain whether it is based on scripture or merely your opinion. Thanks!
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[Boanerges]

Amen my friend.

 

[james1523]

The use of musical instruments in Christian church is a relatively new thing, even the organ was originally frowned upon. The reason was these were seen as old testament things that the mature Christian does not need.
Please consider the views of Calvin and Spurgeon:

Calvin, Spurgeon, and many others did not agree with the use of instruments in church. Spurgeon states that instruments were childish things to help the Israelites learn. When we are spiritually mature, we can make melody without instruments.(Commentary on Psalm 33; Psalm 42). The use of musical instruments would be no more suitable than burning of incense and lighting of lamps and other restorations of the shadows of the law, as the Papists borrowed from the Jews (Calvin). "We might as well pray by machinery as praise by it” (Spurgeon Commentary on Psalm 42:4).

Calvin: "Men who are fond of outward pomp may delight in that noise; but the simplicity which God recommends to us by the apostles is far more pleasing to him." (Calvin, Commentary on Psalm 33)

It is true that the church has lost its way in terms of pure and simple devotion to Christ. We should reconsider the appropriateness of Christian rock and all forms of popular music not because they are right or wrong but because they detract away from pure and simple devotion to Christ. There is nothing worse than not being able to worship God in spirit and peacefulness of heart through the words of music when their meaning is drowned out by the monotonous thud of drums and bass guitar as in heavy rock music. I've been to some churches where they care more for their show and music than for people's ear drums, there are health and safety regulations about that which they seem to ignore.

If we wish to listen to rock music then by all means do it in our own time, but to bring such a thing into the house of God is equivalent to bringing a pagan idol into the temple. The music must be appropriate for the occasion. They wouldn't play Led Zeppelin at funerals or weddings or at state funerals, so why bring it into the time for worshiping God. The church service is primarily an opportunity to connect with God through prayer, not for entertainment or to watch a show.

I personally do not listen as a habit to any form of music, whether Christian or worldly or mixture of the two. It tends to confuse the soul and drown out the spirit so we cannot carry out Paul's command to Eph 5:19 "making melody with your heart to the Lord". As Spurgeon said we might as well pray by machinery also.

The avoidance of any form of instruments is because of our personal relationship with Him. If we talk to a person we would not talk to them while we are playing loud music, we would turn the music off and then talk with them so we can be heard and understood clearly. It is the same thing if we are talking or singing to the Lord, He does not want to hear the music as nice as it sounds, He wants to hear the words of spirit and truth spoken by the Holy Spirit in our spirit. For this reason the use of instruments is not necessary and can in fact hinder worship. But if a person wants to use musical instruments because they are not matured yet, then by all means do so, there is no law or prohibition on the use of instruments in the old or new testaments.

The reason why we may worship God without instruments or popular music is not because we are being legalistic from a sense of right versus wrong, that is the tree of knowledge and leads to spiritual death... but because it may not give us life. It is not necessary and we have found that worshiping God in spirit without it has many more benefits in terms of our spiritual edification. This is because edification comes from fellowship with the Spirit in our spirit, and if we merely only listening to music and not participate or fellowship with the Spirit in our listening, our spiritual senses are dulled and we are not edified in spirit.

For those of you who do not know what I am talking about, if God puts you in a situation where there is no ipod or ipad or anything to entertain you.. when you feel bored and have nothing else to do.. then you may learn how to make melody in your own heart to the Lord and experience the benefits and find you do not need to rely so much on the toys and other things. Amazingly God has designed us in such a way with a mouth, ears, eyes, voice box and spirit that we do pretty well without any external aids.

 

[Boanerges]

Were you at my house I would respectfully keep the music off; personally, anything that helps my heart to tune into His is awesome and I surround myself constantly with it.
From where I sit you are both limiting yourself and missing out: But if your conscience tells you it is wrong then by all means do not do it, it would be a sin for you to knowingly violate your conscience before God.
As for me, I am free to worship Him as seems fit. He is pleased because of the heart poured out, not the sound being made. I worship at work, in the shower, working in the yard all by myself. I worship with music accompanying and without; both are awesome experiences because He is awesome.
On one hand - it is not a good idea to think one's religious preference should be followed by everyone else. The children of God have freedom in their expressions of Love to the Father, that should not be constrained by the traditions or personal bent of another.
On the other we must be careful not to offend out weaker family in Christ, nor to cause them to stumble. In the 14th Chapter of Romans Paul gave us a great example (by the Holy Spirit) of how we deal with gray areas (there is no specific scripture against worshiping along with music, or with driving a car, using electricity, and etc) = we move as our conscience bears us witness in the Spirit (Rom_9:1 ) :

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Eddy Fire]

jungle music

reminds me of a song
we're all living in the jungle
you know
shootin whites
snortin whites
and there are others, too
Led Zep had a song that remained the same
Dylan sung about man giving names to all the animals in the beginning
as for Cooper
could be like Santana
how about Zappa

whoa! Eddy are you kiddin me!?!?1!

is this too much? even the ROCKs will cry out

and it does, so often
here we find everybody kung-fu fighting
almost racist bigotry

but wait on a minute (sorry about the format here - getting like a song- won't be long)
listening to some funky stuff now, see how it effects me

no I am not kidding

I think anyone who suggests that music DOESN'T effect the listener is handling the truth of the matter a little carelessly
so while we might enjoy a little rap or boogie
a bit of vivaldi or even lou reed style stuff how about some folk music or just plain old jungle music with a hearty beat or wild thing rhythm
music does affect and effect our mind and body and soul

it's ok now - I've turned the funk off -had it on to find some words

throughout the ages the rock or whatever is the go for the era has expressed things about injustice love and pain while the churchy tunes are played and the levites walk on by; the righteous (in their own eyes) not wanting to get too close or to defile their holy position in religiousity; and like the many who have been sneered at as 'evil' and 'ungodly' because they are not apparent Christians or have long or short hair or even sing about it, the rock and rollers of every era and all their counterparts have often spoken more loudly and clearly than the professing saved who consider themselves so un-secular as to not want to touch the whole thing and walk instead looking the other way
shameful really

but back to the original thread, I still think that calling the majority of the music that comes under the classification of Rock isn't really rock.
each to their own
does anyone know any others they like?

was listening to a song today - praise the Lord, praise the Lord - come to the FAther through Jesus the Son and give HIM the glory, great things He hath done
and wondered how it would be in full fledged rock
I don't think it would be the same

music can be used for expressing something from deep within and can be heard by the Lord as it is sometimes a deep cry or love that motivates it
if it is for entertaining others like it is too often in churchy events and the popular artists are touring making a dollar on so called praise music or worship music, I'd be a bit cautious about doing their thing - that goes for all styles and genre, not only rock
we are more than ears and mouth and voice box and like all things are we really doing whatever we do with eyes nose ears mouth and hands with our heart tuned in and in harmony to the Living GOD
I think that has to be the question each must ask and leave off heavy handed judgements about others
heavy metal anyone?

anyways - back to the thread - rock on

oh and @Boanerges you might have mistaken me Larry, I said - secular church performances -not secular worship
point being secular church and secular performances if that makes more sense?
and also I meant in my question, is worship a singular activity or something that is for the Body?
You answered in a fashion
you're right, flesh is flesh
if flesh gets corporate does it become a sect as in a secular pseudo-body?
love and peace in Jesus
praise the Lord! Let the whole earth rejoice!

 

[james1523]

'Rock and roll' means to have sex. So churches that have rock and roll music.. aka sex music.. wonder why fornication is a problem amongst the young church goers?

 

[Boanerges]

'Rock and roll' means to have sex. So churches that have rock and roll music.. aka sex music.. wonder why fornication is a problem amongst the young church goers?

That is on par with saying I am an automobile because I walk through the garage..LOL.

 

[lawrenceb]

The use of musical instruments in Christian church is a relatively new thing, even the organ was originally frowned upon.

Yes. The organ is a relatively new arrival, refined in the honkey-tonk bars fashion, New Orleans style. Conversely, the stringed instruments are from antiquity.

'Rock and roll' means to have sex.

Yes, "rock and roll" is a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Check any encyclopedia for verification.

Google this quote: "Striving For Excellence: How to Evaluate Music (A Course for Leaders)". Then order the "book" (two cassettes). It's a comprehensive yet inexpensive path to spiritual discernment on this issue.

 

[Boanerges]

A rainbow is a symbol of gayness in some circles, I see God's promise in it. Perhaps it is all in how one perceives it; or what is in one's heart when looking at something, or what that one traditionally new when growing up.
Selah.
I have been in places where they had Christian worship with a rock beat and the Holy Spirit came like a flood. That does not happen everywhere with or without any kind of music; it happens when hearts are hungry for Him, He will always show up.

 

[lawrenceb]

A rainbow is a symbol of gayness in some circles, I see God's promise in it. Perhaps it is all in how one perceives it; or what is in one's heart when looking at something, or what that one traditionally new when growing up.
Selah.

I wish that were true. There is no other legitimate purpose for any human action than the advancement of the Kingdom of God. Patriotism (advancing the interests of a political coalition) is wrong; Humanism (advancing your own personal interests) is wrong; Satanism (advancing demonic interests) is wrong. Since all action runs to some purpose, if the purpose is not the building of God's Kingdom, then it is to build a rival Kingdom. There is no neutrality. Man's music cannot be impartial and non-religious.

I have been in places where they had Christian worship with a rock beat and the Holy Spirit came like a flood. That does not happen everywhere with or without any kind of music; it happens when hearts are hungry for Him, He will always show up.

Categorically, at "rock beat" concerts, the motivations of those in attendance do not involve worshiping the Living God.

*Bible reading and memorization
Deu. 11:18,19 gives us instructions about what to do "in thine house." Alan Spector has introduced a House Bill called the 'Freedom from Religious Persecution Act.' If passed, it will eventually make the KJV an illegal book, because the KJV 'persecutes' other religions. We need to memorize it now, before it is tool ate. David Pent was raised in a home where the Bible was read aloud for one-half-hour after each meal. No conscious attempt was made to 'memorize' it. He now has the entire New Testament memorized and quotes it verbatim on tape. Jack Hyles' daughter has memorized the New Testament. Won't we all be embarrassed when we have to call her to find out what it says. If each person in the average church of 100 members memorized a chapter or so, between the group, the whole New Testament could be preserved.

*Prayer
The most vital organs of the human body are out of sight, such as the heart and the brain. The most vital parts and activities of the body of Christ are done out of view of most people. Prayer is one of these. The body of Christ cannot function as it was meant to without some members being given to a ministry of prayer.

*Meditate on "whatsoever things are pure" (Phil. 4:8 KJB)
When you are tempted to some 'new' music just to get the epinephrine buzz (it doesn't last long, anyway; see Eccl. 5:10), meditate on the "new testament, new earth, new name, new covenant, new and living way, new man, new creature, new lump, new wine and new commandment." (And avoid the 'news.' It is not really 'what's new' but what the media barons want you to think about.) Remember, the Grecians wanted "to hear some new thing" (Acts 17:21 KJB).

*Sing and praise the Lord
"...speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, making melody to the Lord in your heart..." (Eph. 5:19 KJB).
"teaching and admonishing one another in... hymns" (Col. 3:16 KJB).
"And when they began to sing and to praise, the LORD sent ambushments against... the enemies" (2 Chron. 20:22-27 KJB).

*Memorize the old hymns out of hymnals like Great Hymns of the Faith (Singspiration, published by Zondervan). These hymns, from AD 800-1900, contain the cognitive tools and messages which make memorization possible and conviction and blessing certain:

- They have a metrical framework, accented syllabication at mathematically predictable intervals: isochronus rhythms, iambic pentameter, etc.

- They have rhyme. Commercial jingles use this tool because they know that it increases memorability. "You deserve a break today, So get up and get away..." Pediatrician Dr. James Sightler has noted that he has never met a child who did not learn the alphabet using the 'alphabet song.'

CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) has few if any of the above features. This is why churches must use overhead transparencies. Members cannot memorize them and consequently will not be able to sing them to themselves during the week. New 'crossover' songs substitute "you," "the one," and "the spirit" for God, Jesus, and Thee.

Modern music substitutes sensory stimulation through the use of amplification, beat, and reverberation. They set the room's air molecules into resonance, which in turn set the molecules in the wood pews into resonance, which in turn set that part of the occupant's anatomy which interfaces with the wood into resonance. (Rock concert acoustics designers have refined these facts of physical acoustics into an art.) The next time you attend a Christian 'concert' or visit a 'contemporary' church, put your foot on the seat in front of yours; if you can feel the music through your shoe, the sound man is trying to make up in electronic speaker 'amplification' what old saints used to produce with their heartfelt "singing with loud instruments" (2 Chron. 30:21 KJB).

 

[james1523]

That is on par with saying I am an automobile because I walk through the garage..LOL.

lol... i think my point is best described by this:. if you spend enough time in the garage, you'll end up smelling like a car.

 

[rufusisrael]

This is in response to Peace Seeker

Brother:

Let me just reply you with the problem you have in understanding my last post, you say that the scripture I quoted are not prophetic scriptures written to modern-day worshipers that happen to use a style of music that you don’t like. Now let me clarify you, my likings or your likings is not a matter here, as I said before God does not care what you and me like, for your kind information once upon a time I too played guitar in the rock band and loved rock music, but as I knew the truth I just had to let it go. The scripture I quoted are of course judgment against the rebellious children of Israel that went ******* after false god and done many more evil you are correct, now do you think we or anyone who does not comply with the word of God does not remain as God’s child, servant or disciple For example if you still listen and/or support Christian rock the judgments mentioned by God in Isaiah and Amos are still applicable, why because playing music not for the glory of God is as good as playing music for other gods (Devil) and is exactly like going after false gods. If you say they are not evil then why many Christian rock bands have evil back masking massages? Are they not serving devil? Beware they are wolves in the sheep’s clothing and many are deceived just because they sing Jesus, Jesus, Lord, Lord, we love you, love you etc., and thus versus I mentioned from Isaiah and Amos are quite in context to what I am pointing out and not to justify my cause for I am not an author of the Holy Bible.

In the next paragraph you say that God is not always angry, but I say Yes our God gets always angry if you and anyone offer him a strange incense, that which is an abomination (evil) in the form of worship for he is Holy. Let me make it clear again that I do not hate the Christian Rockers or the fans but of course I hate what they do and follow after. I say this for their gain. I also never mentioned about the instruments or how they are played loud or low. You are getting unnecessarily disturbed for the things I never said, for God is least concerned about how you play, unless it is played in spirit and in truth. If you think you are talented brother praise God, use it for the glory of God in the way He wants us, not the way we feel good.

As you well said king David danced naked before the Lord and the Lord accepted this very act because he loved Lord and always kept his commandments unlike Christian Rockers who only know to play LOUD music and dance before the crowd nothing else.

If God only looks at the heart then please see this: Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

If above words are false then why do they back mask their songs with evil messages, why they put on weird costumes, why they look more or less like baphomet and tattooed over their bodies, is it not an abomination in the sight of the Lord? Did not God warn his people in the old testament to not to make any mark on their bodies? God created man in His own image whereas they love to be seen like baphomet yet you say nothing wrong in it for God sees only heart? Come on brother what is this?

Lastly you want me to show you scripture about Christian Rock, Okay fine, my answer lies in this question to you, show me the scripture that forbids to smoke marijuana, cocaine, or cigarettes.

 

[Boanerges]

Categorically, at "rock beat" concerts, the motivations of those in attendance do not involve worshiping the Living God.

That is a bodacious comment- LOL! Honestly, to say that about millions of people is like a blind man telling me about color- it simply cannot be done. In the churches I have attended, there are ( only from my limited experience) just as many dead people in hymnal churches, the one acapella church, and any other I have seen. While I am guessing this is true as a generality (and assume those who yodel in the closet run the same ratio) I cannot concretely say any of that as fact,
Perhaps it is time to stop judging one another by religious prejudice and stereotyping. What I look for is only the fruit of an action - does one get touched by God, has he drawn close and been moved/changed for the Kingdom of God? None of man's standards can supersede these results and amount to little more than "Pharisee-isms'' in the eyes of God.

Lastly you want me to show you scripture about Christian Rock, Okay fine, my answer lies in this question to you, show me the scripture that forbids to smoke

marijuana, cocaine, or cigarettes.

This one covers everything :
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The Amish though pridefully of their buttons, and considered it a sin to wear prideful things, so for them to wear them would indeed be a sin against conscience. I have no such restriction, but I would not try to sell them buttons anymore than I would invite you to a worship event with a rock-ish beat. Jesus is my Rock.

We do not, at any time, want to be like the sons of Eli who (through the evil in their own hearts) profaned the offerings of God's people.

 

[lawrenceb]

That is a bodacious comment- LOL! Honestly, to say that about millions of people is like a blind man telling me about color- it simply cannot be done. In the churches I have attended...

In the many rock-beat concerts I have attended, the attendees were not there to worship the One True God.

What I look What I look for is only What I look for is only the fruit of an action...

A corrupt re cannot bear good fruit.

I was addicted to rock music, until the Lord recovered me.

We do not, at any time, want to be like the sons of Eli who (through the evil in their own hearts) profaned the offerings of God's people.

Rock music is profane.

 

[Boanerges]

I can easily see how it is a problem for you my friend. I also understand why the thought of what was once a personal problem being a personal issue to you. That being said, due to your former problem, it is impossible for you to have an unjaundiced view on the subject.

I have been to "rock-beat" concerts where Jesus was honored completely, the musicians worshiped God with the playing of their instruments, and the Holy Spirit fell in great power.
GOD is in no way intimidated by, or interested in the beat; He looks for worshipers and those children who gladly poor their heart out (no matter the venue) will always have His heart, and His ear.

Have a blessed day,
your brother Larry.

 

[lawrenceb]

I can easily see how it is a problem for you my friend.

As you yourself have said, a former problem.

I also understand why the thought of what was once a personal problem being a personal issue to you.

It's no longer a "problem," and there's no "personal issue" about it.

... it is impossible for you to have an unjaundiced view on the subject.

On the contrary; like Paul, I have an inside "view on the subject" that the majority do not have.

GOD is in no way intimidated by, or interested in the beat;

You're right; he's not interested in it. We are to be like him.

 

[james1523]

Romans 12:2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

 

[james1523]

Romans 12:2 Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect.

I have been in places where they had Christian worship with a rock beat and the Holy Spirit came like a flood. That does not happen everywhere with or without any kind of music; it happens when hearts are hungry for Him, He will always show up.

I think you nailed it right there.. He will show up when hearts are hungry for Him. So the question has to be asked.. what is the purpose of rock music, why is it needed at all? At best, it's a distraction from the true purpose of worship. At worst, it creates temptation to lead others away from pure and simple devotion to Christ. At least, if they stop the entertainment, perhaps the ones who don't really want to be there for Christ would leave, I see that is a benefit and a good thing...sort of like how Christ weeded out the ones who truly were for him from the ones who just followed him for the food and miracles.. by saying they had to 'eat his flesh'.

I should also add that the idea of the "Holy Spirit showing up" is a misconception. The Holy Spirit is always present within a believer's life..wherever you go, He goes... so not sure why He would have to 'show up' or "come down" from anywhere...and if a hungry heart is all that is required.. the purpose of rock music is???