Christians and mental illness and diseases

[El Hombre viejo]

So do I understand correctly here? You're all saying that God heals some and chooses to leave others sick? Are you saying that GOD chooses to keep some sick to teach them something? Are you saying that GOD takes some people’s lives and brings them to heaven?

How does that line up with “1 Peter 2:24

King James Version (KJV)
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
So we are the healed. Did GOD make a mistake?

Matthew 4:24
And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
Matthew 8:16
When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
Matthew 12:15
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Luke 4:40
Now when the sun was setting, all they that had any sick with divers diseases brought them unto him; and he laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them.
Luke 6:16-19
King James Version (KJV)
16 And Judas the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
17 And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon, which came to hear him, and to be healed of their diseases;
18 And they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed.

19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.
I still cannot find one instance where GOD told someone to stay sick or where HE refused healing. Can you show me one?

 

[rizen1]

So do I understand correctly here? You're all saying that God heals some and chooses to leave others sick? Are you saying that GOD chooses to keep some sick to teach them something? Are you saying that GOD takes some people’s lives and brings them to heaven?

Grace and Peace, can you quote what was said to bring you to this conclusion.

Thank you.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

I read the post above by Boanerges and see where he says GOD takes people home...That usually says HE took their physical lives so HE could take them into heaven.
ALL sickness is a result of sin. If the WORD says we are the healed then we are the healed. Unbelief is sin.

We cannot see the promises of GOD fulfilled in our lives until we believe HIM for what HE says

 

[EagercoG]

This subject hits home for me. My mom had always been bipolar. My dad had always been schizophrenic. Glad to say recently my mom has been active in her relationship with God and all of her symptoms are gone. She no longer has the tendencies she had always had growing up. She always refused taking her medication and talking was off limits for her.

When it came to my dad unfortunately he died with the "disease". The doctors had said he developed schizophrenia from doing drugs. Growing up was not easy. He was in and out of our lives constantly. Even at a young age I could see he would come in our lives because he loved us. And would leave from our lives because of self loathing/lack of self worth. I remember terrible things that happened. As an adult I was very angry with him because I saw the beauty in him, he could have shared with the world. Of course as a child you think its something you did some how. The last day in childhood we were allowed to see him was when we came home so black and blue our mom said she would kill him with her bare hands. About six years ago my sister and I drove down to Florida because my dad was passing away. I was so angry with him. I was in his hospital room and I didn't know what to say to him. He was a stranger. I felt him ask for his bible. And I'm sorry to say I would not give it to him. I knew if I would give it to him, he would leave. I shared this with my sister and brother a while after he passed. My sister felt the same thing, she did not give him the bible. My brother felt the same thing and he gave him the bible and he passed away. My sister stayed in his bedroom most of the nights, one night i stayed in it. I was overwhelmed in the room. I was so scared, I felt a presence in the corner of the room and it was unnaturally dark. I had nightmares and refused to sleep in there again. I brought this up at breakfast, I said you guys are going to think I'm crazy but... All four of us experienced the same thing. My dad was tormented by evil spirits, devils. What ever you would like to call them. They existed throughout the bible. The Word of God is truth. If you accept it as truth you can not deny they exist. But you also don't have to accept them having a hold on you!

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I cannot change the outcome of my dads life. He was tormented. I can't change that. But at least I know he knew who his God was. Only God knows his heart and knows where he ended up.

I also suffered from depression/anxiety. I was on 4 different medications and I felt it was wrong for me to take them. I would say God you created me, you can fix this. Unfortunately I didn't know Jesus then. I ended up taking all those medications for about a year. It was a little after my dad passed on. Everything in my life came down at once, which I'm thankful for now. When I got to know Jesus, I quit all the medicine cold turkey. Its not that I believed all His promises off the bat. But I listened when He said "taste and know that I am good" Its not just your initial introduction either. You can try every single promise He has in His word and know they are all real.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

If you think about it,it is those who are not disturbed by the world and it's injustice and dark paths that are truly mentally ill.
Many are simply tormented by the very things that the Lords leads us to see.
Things concerning the layers of deception and many shades of darkness through which we are required to navigate.


The spirit realm is out of time/space/matter so it is a quantum realm by definition.The spirit wars against the flesh so those who enjoy the flesh rarely can hear anything spiritual.Those who are depressed and confused about life and are not at home in their flesh will seek more answers and may actually get some from the spirit.
This realm is nonsense without the ability to understand through scripture explained by the Holy Spirit.


So in my mind the mentally ill are only mentally different and that is certainly a requirement to see the realm of God.
Sometimes delusional visions are truths in the spiritual realm and the person tries to make it fit in time and space and it comes out all wacky.


If you tell a psychiatrist that you believe that Gods spirit resides within you and that you have the mind of Christ then he will diagnose you as Schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur.They believe that those who think they hear God are the most dangerous to themselves and society.

 

[jason h]

I have a few questions. Does a diabetic show lack of faith by taking insulin? Does a depressed person show lack of faith by taking an maoi or ssri? Explain in detail, if you can, exactly how these are even different. How do the alpha/beta cells for diabetes differ than the 5-HT receptors in the brain for the serotonergic mechanism. Did the person who got diabeties sin in some such a way as to become that way? I know for a fact that you cannot say that everyone who is sick is that way because they sinned. Jesus addressed that directly. The blind man didnt sin to be born blind. But that the glory of God would be manifest. He only gave us enough information to keep us aware that we dont know so many things. Sin can lead to sickness but to claim it is the root every time is cast down by Jesus' words.

We are sinners who live in a world with death and decay. That happened at the fall. Basically the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Everything runs down, decays, etc.. You cant get more out of what you put in. As for mental illness, let me see if I can help. Those who like to say it is spiritual in nature, or devil driven, could be right. But if you take that view, you should also take the view that it could be from God too. Since the bible also shows that He gave saul a distressing spirit. What is your view when your loved one needs insulin to live. Is that demonic in nature? Is it just failure of the alpha cells? Are these one and the same? Are there other options? If I am balding does that mean I am to believe that my faith is failing to protect my hair follicles from dihydrotestosterone. No body fears getting colds or the flu. Most people just accept this happens and even go to the doctor to get antibiotics! But because the mind is much more mysterious, we immediately go all 14th century and start getting strange with all manner of superstitions. Am I saying there isnt demonic activity? No. Am I saying all sickness is just part of this world and there isnt a spiritual origin to it? No. What Im saying is this. Unless you can explain the details of every case and know what the exact origin is, what do you actually know and how do you know you're not causing a brother to stumble. By some of the things we go on about, is it not possible for someone with a depression problem to walk away thinking God has turned him over, or that he must not have enough faith. The pharisies did that with people who were born with ailments or had sudden calimty come on them. They saw it as an obvious sin problem and God punishing them for it. We know from the book of Job and from the gospels that kind of thinking can get you in trouble. All of jobs friends can be summed up by what they said. They all claimmed that God punished the wicked and sinners and that obviously job really must have messed up to be where he was and if he would just repent of his sin, he'd be ok. They were wrong in at least 2 areas. One being that they didnt know all that God knew but still condemned job based on what they 'thought' was true. The other is their thinking was that they werent sinners like the people who got sick. They reveal this by their idea that as long as they are safe and healthy, they must be righteous. Just as with Job when God was questioning him. We dont know so many things and should consider that before throwing out stuff like dogma that we arent given a lot of knowledge on. Its just not very edifying. Doesnt seem to be wise to explain things in this world that arent expounded on in detail in the word. The church argued against a solar system with the sun in the middle based on what they read and saw in scripture. Who then wouldnt have argued against it with verses talking about the sun rising and setting. They took things out of context and argued about stuff they didnt have all the answers on. That didnt go very well.

It is God who grants wisdom and He has allowed us to understand certain laws in His creation as they are now. With this knowledge we can heal people, bring the gospel to the furthest corners of the world, etc... The problem is when people think science is at odds with God. It isnt anymore than a gun is evil. It becomes evil in the hands of sinners when they try and use it to explain God away. Science doesnt do this. People wanting to believe science can do this are the ones who believe it can. Science is truth untill someone tries to take it to places beyond verification. Then like any other thing it becomes a faith. God also still has sovern control of all things and is bound by nothing He desires to do. He can even step in His creation and do obvious miracles. These things have a tension about them I cant resolve. I just accept somehow they are true and that i should know my role. Im a sinner but Christ is a greater savior. Im not told I have to know much, just told to love much.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Jason You are where you are. Grow from there GOD gave us doctors too for us to use till we can and will trust HIS WORD

 

[SpiritLedEd]

LOL!

Tell you what, you go around telling people you believe in the devil.

I'll continue going around telling people I believe in Jesus.

Then let's see what happens

"How can Satan drive out Satan?" (Mk 3:23)

Jesus knows Satan exists.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[stephen]

It is very clear that Jesus believed in Satan. Satan was cast out of heaven long ago ....God cast him out.

I suggest that you associate your-selves with a Christian Church. Jesus said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel" The 'gospel' is a life changing message. Find a place, a company of people that preach it. Meeting Jesus is also mighty experience, .....and eradicates all doubt about the reality of the 'cross'....
and so much more

 

[Furious_Love]

She believes all mental illness comes from the Devil and that Christians can not get cancer. I know they can and I also know mental illness is a real illness? Anyone care to add further debate to this please? My brother is paranoid schizophrenic and does much better on tablets than without them.

Good on your brother for seeing that medication can play an important role in treating his symptoms. Our beloved Paul describes his affliction and not once is it put down to a lack of faith.

The person who attributes Mental Illness, Cancer, Diabetes, Cancer, Parkinson’s, Crohn’s Disease, and any other disease to a lack of faith is absurd. Word of Faith teachers have a lot to answer for. I am of the belief these people lack wisdom and understanding.

(2Co 12:7) And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

(2Co 12:8) For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

(2Co 12:9) And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

(2Co 12:10) Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

“God allowed Satan to torment Paul for God’s own good purposes and always within God’s perfect will.” We find a similar vein throughout the Bible.

(1Sa 16:14) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. (1Sa 16:15) And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee.

(Job 1:12) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

(Psa 119:71) It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.

(Rom 5:3) And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; (Rom 5:4) and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

(Rev 21:4) And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."

Distorted Christianity has a lot to answer for, for making sufferers of such debilitating illnesses somehow believe they have deserved what they have. Which does confound me.

My Christian friend and I slightly disagree on things on one is this.She believes all mental illness comes from the Devil

That is so sad to hear this.

Satan comes to steal kill and destroy. So.....mental illness does come from Satan. That does not mean it is not a real illness. Even so there are demonic sprits who work with the tools Satan gives them. Schitzophrenia is a spirit who works with an illness called by the same name to imprision people in their minds. Cancer is also a spirit who works with cancer the illness to kill and destroy people.

We will find that sickness was the result of the fall, as Humanity was made perfect by God it then became corrupt. Denying this truth is very easy to do and it can be accounted as a lack of Faith. To a degree we all have faith in something. As Christians, our faith is in Jesus Christ and of the World to come. Our forbearers lived 900 years+ and now it is less than 100 years. To live past 100 is special yet of the 7 Billion people on this planet most will not make 100 years.

Disease came from the fall through humanities quest for godhood. IMO this century and last has tried to put the blame on Illness to the Devil and a lack of faith, after-all the woman who had bled for a dozen years was healed and was accounted to her from her faith. I believe we all have faith for healing. I have a friend who once told me a poignant story; He related to his dad who was at church and during the meeting the speaker prayed a prayer of healing to the congregation. My friend’s father immediately began to hear perfect as his dad was hard of hearing. Immediately following his miracle he said “ I don’t believe it”. As he said that he lost his ability to hear again. Is this accounted as a lack of faith? We are human and flawed. Thomas had to touch Jesus’ wounds to believe once more. To assume our infirmities are a lack of faith is once again absurd. We are given what we can deal with.

The most observant Christian can and will have difficulties in life. To say otherwise is once again absurd and naïve.

Bless You….

 

[Warrior Mom]

For the past 15 years my son has been dealing with mental illness. So many prayers for him, some answered some not. He came to us "something is wrong with me! I am not thinking like I used to". No causal event to trigger this. Short version: Dr. said "depression" anti anxiety and antidepressants. Worked somewhat for years. at 27 about 2 years ago, he had a major breakdown. Now he is in the midst of a second. Schizoaffective disorder.
What the Lord has given me in this time is that we each have a life to give to Christ, spend ourselves as he spent himself for us. So the family prays and we lift up the precious one who is so ill and present them to the Savior who sees all: the one who is so sick and the ones who carry them. It would be a great kindness if there are people who would join in prayer for those who are afflicted. I am willing are there others?

 

[falconbrother]

My Christian friend and I slightly disagree on things on one is this. She believes all mental illness comes from the Devil and that Christians can not get cancer. I know they can and I also know mental illness is a real illness? Anyone care to add further debate to this please?

My brother is paranoid schizophrenic and does much better on tablets than without them.

Just an observation, your friend seems to be unloving. If she gets cancer what's she going to say then? Also, it sounds like she has her own neurosis just like everyone else. In my view the first thing we ought to be as Christians is honest. Honest about who we are, which is sinners in need of grace. Condemnation isn't a gift of the spirit. It sounds to me like this condemnation of all sick people and all mentally ill people is certainly not a Christian attitude. People were sick in Jesus day and he didn't write them off. He touched them and healed them.

I'm so tired of fellow Christians taking the high ground and condemning others. It harms the Christian witness, offends the spirit and perpetuates a rejection of surrendering to the call of the Holy Spirit to repent (honesty and brokenness before the saving grace of the blood of Jesus). It's a counterfeit repentance to turn our noses up at people and to feel superior. That makes us no better than some fundamentalist terrorist in attitude and intent.

The Holy Spirit calls us to be humble in spirit, loving in action and bold in proclaiming the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

With all of this said, you cannot think for your friend. She will have to discover truth, or not. A life lived as a loving example is a great witness to the power of God.

 

[lightalma]

Perhaps you may see it this way. Mental illness can be cured through following Jesus Christ's Laws. If we have drawn spirits to us then they use our senses. Many of these cases took place in the bible. Today, it is considered a medical name. but truly it is spirits. Why does one have that and another not? We are made of atoms and we create light or darkness in our auras. Jesus said, "I am the Light of the world". He had only light in hus spirit, body and soul. He was without sin. So darkness could not touch him. Through Him and in obedience to certain Scientific spiritual Laws we can remove these conditions from our auras. it works and Jesus Christ helps us through His Method.

 

[harvester]

Just an observation, your friend seems to be unloving. If she gets cancer what's she going to say then? Also, it sounds like she has her own neurosis just like everyone else. In my view the first thing we ought to be as Christians is honest. Honest about who we are, which is sinners in need of grace. Condemnation isn't a gift of the spirit. It sounds to me like this condemnation of all sick people and all mentally ill people is certainly not a Christian attitude. People were sick in Jesus day and he didn't write them off. He touched them and healed them.

I'm so tired of fellow Christians taking the high ground and condemning others. It harms the Christian witness, offends the spirit and perpetuates a rejection of surrendering to the call of the Holy Spirit to repent (honesty and brokenness before the saving grace of the blood of Jesus). It's a counterfeit repentance to turn our noses up at people and to feel superior. That makes us no better than some fundamentalist terrorist in attitude and intent.

The Holy Spirit calls us to be humble in spirit, loving in action and bold in proclaiming the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. For there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.

With all of this said, you cannot think for your friend. She will have to discover truth, or not. A life lived as a loving example is a great witness to the power of God.

You are judging someone by a few sentences I said. You have no idea how loving she is. She just believes that mental illness comes from the devil and we can rebuke it in Jesus name. How does that make one unloving? Please think before you judge someone you do not even know.

 

[revbrad]

All sickness is ultimately the result of sin.

NOT SO........

John 9: 1-3
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

 

[falconbrother]

You are judging someone by a few sentences I said. You have no idea how loving she is. She just believes that mental illness comes from the devil and we can rebuke it in Jesus name. How does that make one unloving? Please think before you judge someone you do not even know.

You said that your friend believes that Christians can't get cancer. That implies that she writes off all cancer patients as being non-Christian, unsaved or rejected by Christ. That's all I was saying. Seems awfully mean spirited. The best, most loving, Christian woman I have ever known is a cancer survivor. The best Christian man I ever knew died from cancer. To state that they in fact were not saved and therefore rejected by God, through no fault of their own, is cruel no matter how you cut it.

 

[Sherebro]

One of the apostles, Luke himself was a medical doctor. I think there is a great need for doctors and psychiatrist alike, and I strongly believe that God created these professionals to aid people in their illnesses. However I also believe in the power of healing, because I used to suffer violently with panic attacks and major depression. I believe that God has the power to heal. Why? Because He healed me. One day I had enough, it was getting to the point that I was becoming suicidal so i called out to God and He healed me (this was around the time I got saved). Haven't had a panic attack or depression episode since. HALLELUJAH! Now as for what your friend was saying about demons... there is biblical evidence for this throughout the Bible. The scripture below is one example.

Mtw17:14-20
And when they came to the crowd, a man came up to him and, kneeling before him, said, “Lord, have mercy on my son, for he is an epileptic and he suffers terribly. For often he falls into the fire, and often into the water. And I brought him to your disciples, and they could not heal him.” And Jesus answered, “O faithless and twisted generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him here to me.” And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was healed instantly. ...

Does that relate to all mental illness cases? Honestly I do not believe so. But I am not sure, would have to do some more Biblical research on that. But I do know He healed me. And If He can heal me, I believe He can heal others too. God bless!!!


Matthew4:24So his fame spread throughout all Syria, and they brought him all the sick, those afflicted with various diseases and pains, those oppressed by demons, epileptics, and paralytics, and he healed them.

 

[Eric E Stahl]

4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

There is a time for medication of depression.


6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
8 Open thy mouth for the dumb in the cause of all such as are appointed to destruction. 9 Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

You are judging someone by a few sentences I said. You have no idea how loving she is. She just believes that mental illness comes from the devil and we can rebuke it in Jesus name. How does that make one unloving? Please think before you judge someone you do not even know.

The problem I have with this Word-of-Faith stuff is that it assumes God is a Miracle Vending Machine; just drop in the appropriate prayers and receive the expected answer IF you've deposited enough faith.

SLE

 

[christbased]

You are judging someone by a few sentences I said. You have no idea how loving she is. She just believes that mental illness comes from the devil and we can rebuke it in Jesus name. How does that make one unloving? Please think before you judge someone you do not even know.

I believe that too, that metal illness's original source of from long term demonic attack, the original source that is. How directly does one go about rebuking demonic spirits in Christ's name? How do we deal with that from a biblical point of view? How does one get help ?

in Christ, I ask this.