Paul is speaking in 2 Thes. 2 of the future, and is still in the future for us.
He's discussing the man of sin, the anti-christ.
Christians and the Tribulation
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Paul is speaking in 2 Thes. 2 of the future, and is still in the future for us.
He's discussing the man of sin, the anti-christ.
There is only one conclusion, a third temple will be built.
When the rapture takes place the Scripture gives no timeline on the beginning of the Tribulation.
It could be months or years before the 7 year Tribulation begins.
During this time is when it's believed the third temple will be built.
It will come through a peace deal between Israel and the Muslims, arranged by the anti-christ.
Hekuran
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It's just an assumption it's in the future - there's nothing in the text demands it's still ahead of us.
He is called the man of lawlessness. Titus destroyed the temple, and all Roman emperors assumed divinity.
It's far more likely Paul's prophecy was fulfilled when Titus (or possibly Nero) took power. Read the whole of 2 Thessalonians and see if it makes sense.
Hekuran
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You're just making stuff up.
I've been in churches for nearly half a century and have seen a lot of fanciful speculation come and go. Yes all the speculation of the past has turned out to be wrong, butt no matter because the end time pundits just move on to the next theory.
Mind you, they've sold a lot of books, films and conference tickets.
Paul opens 2 Thes. 2 by it's theme, "Now we beseech you, Brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him."
You're beginning to sound like a Preterist, or at least thinking like one. If that's the case just ignore all that I've said.
Well I can see you're not aware of the peace treaty the anti-christ will broker, according to Daniel.
Admon Mikha'el
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OoooKaaaayFarewell to the Rapture - NTWrightPage
(N.T. Wright, Bible Review, August 2001. Reproduced by permission of the author) Little did Paul know how his colorful metaphors for Jesus’ second coming would be misunderstood two millennia later. The American obsession with the second coming of Jesus — especially with distorted...ntwrightpage.com
Hekuran
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Go on. Enlighten me.
Daniel 9:27
"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."
The covenant is believed to be a peace treaty between Israel and the Muslims.
In "the midst of the week" is the mid-point of the 7 year Tribulation when the anti-christ's true motives are revealed, he breaks the covenant.
This is when "he sits in the temple of God and claims to be God."
I forgot to point out that "he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease" is where he puts an end to Israel offering sacrifices.
Israel will have a new temple and be offering animal sacrifices as in the old days.
Hekuran
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Antiochus Epiphanes, Greek king reined from 174 to 164 BC. Percecuted Judea and Samaria, violated the temple by holding a pagan sacrifice with pigs blood.
He did not commit the "abomination of desolation" the anti-christ will by being in the temple claiming to be God himself.
When the new temple is built, Israel will be committing blasphemy before God by offering sacrifices, but the anti-christ will commit the ultimate blasphemy by sitting in the temple and claiming to be God.
Hekuran
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Daniel doesn't mention an anti-christ.
It just says "abomination that causes desolation". Of course, spilling pigs blood in the temple is an abomination.
In Matt. 24 as Christ explains what will happen to Israel in the Tribulation, he says,
Matt. 24:15,
"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand"
Christ is referring back to what Daniel said of the anti-christ.
Curtis
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2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Hekuran
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Yes. Jesus was speaking to different people in a different context at a different stage in the story of the bible about a different situation.
It's natural for him to make reference back to Epiphanes when predicting the AD70 destruction of the temple.
And Jesus didn't mention an antichrist either.
No, only the anti-christ sits in the temple claiming to be God.
As Daniel moves on, still speaking of the anti-christ in 11:36-39 he says this,
And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain."
Hekuran
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There's nothing in the Bible that says this. Where does this idea come from?
The only mentions of the antichrist are in the letters of John. Nothing about sitting in the temple there.
I've already shown you that in 2 Thes. 2:4. The man of sin, the anti-christ.
Information on the anti-christ is cumulative, some from Christ, some from Paul, some from Daniel, etc.
Believe what you want, everyone but the Preterists will disagree with all you're saying.
Hekuran
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I think your cumulative reading approach is at the heart of the problem here. To read any Bible text well, we need to be sensitive to who the text was written to, the situation they were in, and at what stage in the unfolding story of the Bible.
Daniel lived in Babylon in exile from Jerusalem. He was in the first generation to experience the devastation of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple. He was aware of Isaiah's and Jeremiah's prophecies of return and restoration. He lived in hope of return from exile.
Jesus, immediately before his death stood in the shadow of the second temple and taught his disciples that judgement would again fall on Jerusalem, and again the temple would be destroyed.
In the first pages of Acts we read of tongues of fire descending on the disciples, just as holy fire had once descended on the temple, indicating that now God's presence in the world is no longer through a holy building, but through the lives of every believer.
Twenty years later Paul assures the church in Thessalonica that Jesus will return in glory and the dead will rise from the grave to be with him. But he warns that it will not happen until a man of lawlessness comes, taking his place in the temple and claiming to be God.
These prophecies had a purpose: they would have meant that when terrible things happened the first generation of Christians would not have had reason to doubt God was working out his plan. They knew what to do, how to pray, what to put their trust in.
If you mash all this together without respect for the different times and circumstances of these prophecies, you end up with a Frankenstein's monster theology, stitched together from scraps of scripture.
