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SignUp Now!I read your list Chad, inspiring but very topical. You basically describe what it's like to be alive and cite it as proof of God, I don't find this overly profound. You also mention thousands of artifacts attesting to the validity of the scriptures and have one link to the dead sea scrolls.
I would like to raise a point that may have been raised, I'm not sure. If a Christian type God does exist why is there, and has there always been a considerable lack of agreement on the existence of it? No human on earth would deny that they have a father or a mother, this knowledge is so deep within our species that we don't ever question it.
If God is essentially the father of the human race what is stopping him from once and for all exerting his presence upon us? Surely he could communicate this omnipotently to all upon the earth simultaneously could he not?
To me the myriad of interpretations of God found throughout time on this planet speak more towards the human condition of being unsure of our origins and destination. Keep in mind that the Bible is but one of many religious texts and if you're white and American you were probably raised with it and have never considered anything else.
A much more elegant way of saying "we can't explain it because God work in a mysterious way".
Let's take the Noah's story. God destroyed everything, except for animals and seeds in the Ark. Let's overlook the fact that penguins and panda bears could magically trekked miles to find the Ark. What did the penguins and panda bears ate for 40 days and nights? What did the lions eat? How did the penguins and pandas get back to their present habitat?
With the Earth covered with water, not a form of water, there was no ice caps at the poles. How was that possible? One of the poles must be cold. How long did it take to melt all those ice? Wouldn't that made the ocean water less salty and thus made it impossible for ocean marine life? Similarly, wouldn't that have made fresh water fish died off as well because the lake water would be too salty? I don't think the Bible mention of saving the fish. And how long did it take for the ice to form again so that penguins and polar bears can live at the poles?
According to the Bible, it's about 8,000 years since the flood. We are all descendants from Noah. That meant the Semitic's genes gave rise to the Caucasians, Africans and Asians! Remember that the Bible didn't mention God had a second Genesis. Because if He did, why didn't he just wiped Noah out as well and started all over? The Chinese has 5,000 years of recorded history. Maybe God was Darwin before Darwinism was cool. Even more remarkable that we achieved this human diversity in 3,000 years because the Chinese has a 5,000 recorded history.
I understand it's difficult to fathom that the current bio diversity was developed within 3000 years. So, it must be God's work.
Have you read and studied this in the Bible?
Have you taken the time to research online and in Bible
handbooks for a possible solution? Not every solution
has to be man-made. Miracles for these things should not
lower God's status in anyone's eyes. For through Him,
all things are possible. The story contains many miracles
in just BRINGING the animals there. Genesis 6:20, 7:9,15
Genesis 6:21
Most days, I don't care what I ate last week, nor do
I even remember. I just know that I ate, it was good,
I am alive. :giggle: If I were required to write down everything
I ate, I would stop making that list before the day was over. Heehee.
If the Bible contained a list of things ALL the animals ate,
would anyone care to read pages and pages of it? Not
so much.
I never said every solution has to be man-made. I'm just wondering how did the 2 penguins trekked across from the South Pole to Judea without dying? I guess we can try to figure something that we don't know out or just sweep it under the miracle rug. If my alarm clock suddenly fell from my table, I wouldn't know what caused it nor would I attribute to the work of a deity.
Again, I don't really care what ALL the animals ate. I'm just wondering what did the 2 panda bears ate since pandas only eat bamboos. I'm trying to reconcile what the carnivore animals ate, during the flood, with the 2 and 7 pairs of animals that made it to the Ark. It must be a miracle for the 2 lions, tigers, jaguars et al to remain healthy while on a strict vegetarian diet.
On the net, the religious theorists couldn't decide what did Noah do with the waste. It's a shame that the Bible didn't mention that so these pious souls can devote more time to study the scripture.
I just took physics class, and what I learned there, is that anything
will cool down faster (or melt) if there is a dramatic temp. difference.
Ex.) boiling tea cools faster at room temp. which is why people always try to find ways to keep heat inside the cup. The ice would not have taken long to melt.
As for the salt, there is a lot more salt water than fresh water. Lots. It would not be less salty.
Fresh water is fresh because the process of going downstream picks up small amounts of sediment and minerals that are too small to taste, and they build up at the end (oceans and seas). Like Nemo says, rivers lead to the ocean. ^-^
Funny that the Bible didn't mention the sudden rise and subsequent drop in temperature before, during or after the flood. This must be one of the miracles.
The water covered all mountains during the flood. Mount Everest is 30,000 feet tall!!! The extra water would overwhelmed the ocean water. Unless, of course, it's a miracle that the extra water contained the specific salination that was good for ocean marine life. Unfortunately, that meant all the fresh water fish would have died. Unless, of course, God built a salt/fresh water barrier that allowed the water to rise 30,000 feet but no mixing of the salt and fresh water. Or we may have misread the Bible. It maybe just a thin coated of water to cover the top of the mountain. God certainly worked in a mysterious way.
Man's opinion of customs differ from each other a lot, and therefore, most of the descendents would have formed their own groups and customs, and packed up. If you look at the possible population a few years from now, it will be HUGE. Diversity would not have been a problem because people are the fastest producing species on Earth.
Just in Genesis, there are so many people, I ran out of room on my piece of paper to record them all. (I tried making a family tree thingy).
Actually, human is one of the slowest reproducing species. In Old Testament time, an average life span would be about 30 years. Assuming that Noah's daughter in-laws reproduce when they were 13, this would be about 17 offspring each. A chicken produced far more than that in a week.
No scientists can claim that the current Caucasian, African and Asian population mutated from the genes of Noah in 3,000 years. It maybe possible in a thousand million years but 3,000 years is a very short time frame. But the Bible said Noah's flood was about 8,000 years old. Again, it's a miracle.
Question are always ok. Everyone is curious. But
since you say that you are not a born again Christian in your
profile, then you must have joined this site because you are
seeking Jesus. As the site says it is for serious Christians or those
who seek Jesus Christ. So then those who seek Jesus would probably find the gospel and scripture about Jesus able to save us from our sins more important than what animals on the ark ate or how cold the water was.
I would also suggest you to read 'Father's Love Letter.' Those
questions are interesting to look into once most have accepted Jesus
into their hearts. But for now, if your not a Christian, then wouldn't His central message be more important?
What did I do wrong? The site is for Christians and those who are seeking Jesus. The previous statement would be redundant if it's for Christians ad those who accepted Jesus. And I'm only answer Chad's open question to atheists.
I believe that many atheists and non-Christians would not mind spend a few minutes to get to know Jesus. However, in accepting Him, I must, by definition, accept that the Bible is truth, and nothing but the truth. So far, any question about any event in the Bible that is incompatible with science or what we knew, is answered with "It's a miracle".
And since Jesus performed these same miracles in front of thousands of
witnesses, then it wouldn't be hard to accept that miracles are possible.
If an all powerful God can perform such miracles, and showed them to His
people countless times, then why would it bug anyone to accept a miracle as an answer? There appears to be nothing as irritable to the critical mind as events which defy explanation, especially if a non-supernatural explanation is what’s being sought.
Also: You don't have to be a Christian to seek Jesus.
If you didn't seek Jesus, how else would you come
to know God? Before I accepted Jesus, I learned about Him,
and searched for Him in scripture and in my life.
Seeking is looking.
You are twisting my post. That entire post did not say in between the lines 'only read NT'. So again I say: There appears to be nothing as irritable to the critical mind as events which defy explanation, especially if a non-supernatural explanation is what’s being sought. Chad has posted many threads in this section and other parts of this forum about the miracles God and Jesus performed, as well as prophecies that have come true that were predicted in the Bible which are still coming true now, and even physical evidence since it seems you won't be satisfied until you get that. Also, I do not think you read 'Father's Love Letter' which I suggested to you earlier.
Now that I have gone out of my way to try to explain to you further
whatever questions were on your mind, it is now your turn to do
something about these questions. Chad and many other users have put
a lot of work into these posts for you and many other users of this site.
I would suggest that if you really were seeking God as you say, that you
use those tools given to you. Don't let the work of our fellow brothers and
sisters go to waste.
In previous post, you asked me to read and find in the scripture about Jesus and not get too hang up about the Ark or other non-Jesus related stuff. Am I correct in saying that Jesus's sermons and teachings occur mainly in the New Testament? If I'm wrong, please show me quotes of Jesus's teachings in the Old Testament. There were a few prophesies of the coming of Jesus and nothing else.
I never said in that post to 'just look for Jesus talking in OT', as you say I did.Those
questions are interesting to look into once most have accepted Jesus
into their hearts. But for now, if your not a Christian, then wouldn't His central message be more important?
That verse states to what extent God forgives us."And to tell you that I am not counting your sins."
“All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to Himself…in Christ God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them…For our sake He made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.” 2 Corinthians 5:18,19,21"Jesus died so that you and I could be reconciled."
I've lost track of how many smites God delivered to both Jews and non-Jews.
humans have intangible senses, called emotions where we feel love, hate, anger, sadness, happiness, shock, confused, hurt, healed, and so forth?
No matter what I try to think up or what people say to debate this, only humans have all those feelings.
Animals don't have all these feelings, only feelings of pain, feeling threatened or in danger, and adrenaline or exhaustion. Just basic feelings needed to keep alive.
Fish in fish tanks who are adults eat the baby fish, including the parents of the offspring.
But human parents would rather die themselves than do such a thing because they truly have feelings of love toward their offspring.
Humm, every day woman around the world rip the fetus out of their womb and throw it in the trash. But then again, the tissue from heart bypasses, appendixs' and other surgical procedures are discarded as well.
Well said brother Chad, another great source is the DVD "Case for the Creator" by Lee Stroebel
Humm, every day woman around the world rip the fetus out of their womb and throw it in the trash.
Are we drifting away from the title of the thread?
Or is it just me?
If you are enjoying the conversation then by all means continue.
I hope that I do not end up with a pitchfork in my hand
running down the street looking for abortionists.
I have watched that and it is wonderful... it actually amazes me how much proof there is of God's existence and how many people don't believe. They are blind to the obvious... well, to me it's obvious... it's just hard to understand that sometimes.
