Dear Atheist

[Zendra]

Hows it going Questioning.(this next bit is kinda for the others though)
I was reading an article about generations and it was talking about how the last two generations are much more skeptical due to an overload of advertising. Anyway in case you were wondering that's probably why people can find it hard to just commit entirely on faith.
Also Chad iv seen some of the links but I'm sorry as like Questioning said about hearing the same information, that when you see it is entirely christian sites and organisations it is easy to prejudge of it being biased.

 

[Questioning]

Hows it going Questioning.
I was reading an article about generations and it was talking about how the last two generations are much more skeptical due to an overload of advertising. Anyway in case you were wondering that's probably why people can find it hard to just commit entirely on faith.

I have no idea about that, but certainly skepticism is extremely valuable and faith isn't as much. Using either extensively can get somebody in a lot of trouble. (This is why you don't buy bridges or unseen gemstones).

 

[SpiritLedEd]

but certainly skepticism is extremely valuable and faith isn't as much. Using either extensively can get somebody in a lot of trouble. (This is why you don't buy bridges or unseen gemstones).

Skepticism is important when it produces caution. However, when it is used as an excuse for indecision, it becomes your enemy. Wasn't it Teddy Roosevelt who said that no one has ever raised a statue honoring a skeptic?

SLE

 

[Zendra]

Well skepticism isn't really a type of person. It just means you have doubts about something and statues are generally of people who have done something great in one area even if you are skeptical in another.

 

[Questioning]

Skepticism is important when it produces caution. However, when it is used as an excuse for indecision, it becomes your enemy.

I would say that the value of decision lies in the consequences of making the decision in whatever ways it may be made. For example, if I pick some wild mushrooms and then give them to you to eat, your skepticism may well save your life. If the mushroom is deadly, then you are safe under both indecision or the decision to not consume. In such cases indecision "becomes your friend" just as much as the proper decision. Of course these reasonings lead us to the mechanism of risk assessment, and then you get into other value systems and belief sets.

Wasn't it Teddy Roosevelt who said that no one has ever raised a statue honoring a skeptic?
SLE

Maybe? But that statement is incorrect regardless of who said it. Many famous people for whom statues have been raised have considered themselves to be skeptical individuals. At least a few of them are famous FOR their skepticism, and their skepticism was a large part of who they were and why they had a statue raised in their honor.

 

[Questioning]

Well skepticism isn't really a type of person. It just means you have doubts about something and statues are generally of people who have done something great in one area even if you are skeptical in another.

Strawmen can't pick off the labels which are affixed to them. Indeed, that's why they are constructed.

 

[tranquility]

God Bless You and your Witness here!

What you said is wonderful!

 

[Zendra]

im sorry but are you promoting labeling of people?

 

[Chad]

Questioning...

After all the articles, links I've given you and others' responses to your "questions" that really are not questions, you are still not satisfied.

You don't need answers to your questions, you need prayer and at least a hint of faith.

Humility goes a long way.

Read a book by ex-atheist called Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. Perhaps you already have a comment about him or his book.

I find it hard to believe that an atheist thinks this world exists without a living God, Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible as Savior and everything is mere coincidence.

Hard to believe your beliefs.

 

[Questioning]

After all the articles, links I've given you and others' responses to your "questions" that really are not questions, you are still not satisfied.

I'm very satisfied. What makes you say otherwise?

You don't need answers to your questions, you need prayer and at least a hint of faith.

Hmm.. Maybe I'd like answers, though? And I do have faith, but I put my faith in ideas that seem meritorious of it.

Humility goes a long way.

I've seen precious little of it here, so perhaps you're right, and I'm just not aware of it.

Read a book by ex-atheist called Case for Christ by Lee Strobel. Perhaps you already have a comment about him or his book.

I've read this book 11 times and debated its major points, one by one, at least 4 times. I'd be happy to go through it chapter by chapter with anyone at all. It's arguments are not nearly so good as believers imagine once the reasoning is examined with proper rigor.

I find it hard to believe that an atheist thinks this world exists without a living God, Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible as Savior and everything is mere coincidence.

I understand what you mean, Chad. I too find it hard to believe that so many people believe in a specific God.

And as I've already explained once in this thread, to you specifically, I do not consider that "everything is mere coincidence." I'm not the strawman atheist that your preachers set up in order to easily knock down. I'm a real person with real feelings and ideas and problems and joys and sorrows who simply does not believe in your God or religion--or any God or religion of which I've heard.

Hard to believe your beliefs.

That's understandable. It can be very hard for a person who is entrenched in a belief system to comprehend why someone would not be a part of their belief set.

But if I may ask, which beliefs of mine are hard to believe? Or do you mean to say that you find my non-belief hard to comprehend?

 

[Chad]

Its clear you did not come to ask questions, only to respond short with your own understanding.

 

[Questioning]

Its clear you did not come to ask questions, only to respond short with your own understanding.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion, or how it seems "clear." I have asked many questions that were never answered, and I have been thoughtful and respectful in all of my responses. I'm not in the practice of lying, however, and I'm not going to put on dishonesty just to seem more acquiescent to the popular notions presented to me.

In your opening post (of this thread) you assume that atheists have certain ideas. Those assumptions you made were false, as far as I can determine, and I've spoken with lots of other nonbelievers. Your post was titled "Dear Atheist," and then constructed a false image of what an atheist thinks and does. Here I am. Alive and in person, not arguing or causing strife in any way, willing to take the time to find out what answers you have to an actual nonbeliever with the normal questions a nonbeliever has--not the questions you and other christians assume nonbelievers have that they really don't.

If I were to guess, I'd say that about I've received an answer to only about 20% of the questions I've asked, and I've not ever once brought this up before now, when you accuse me of not being here to ask questions. I'm asking questions that aren't being answered, and you say that I'm not here to ask questions?!? I'm not making the rules, here, you are. I must abide by them. I put it to you that if my questions were answered, you would see nothing from me but civil, honest, worthwhile, beneficial discussion without any negative aspects. I plead with you (and anyone else here) to put this claim of mine to the test. You have before you an atheist who is willing to listen to any and all answers, and civilly discuss what values you put forth from your religious viewpoint. Has such a case ever come before you on this website? Do you consider me an opportunity for the cause of Christ or a swine before which you should not throw your pearls? How do you know that God may not have sent me here to learn from you the truth of the gospel so that I may after that change go on to evangelize around the globe?

But perhaps you can instead notify me of another christian website that might answer a greater percentage of my questions from the christian viewpoint? I certainly don't want to be a bother to anyone, but I had thought that believers here would see my presence on this site as an opportunity to witness for their Lord. And, test out what scriptures, answers, and biblical ideas make the most impact on a nonbeliever.



p.s. Also, I have no idea what you mean by that statement that I " only respond short with your own understanding" means, but I promise to consider it carefully if you can explain it to me in a clearer way. Thanks for your help.

 

[Questioning]

im sorry but are you promoting labeling of people?

I don't know if you were asking this question of me, Zendra, but I'll answer just in case you were. No, I'm not promoting the labeling of anyone. I was referring to the practice of constructing strawman arguments. Why people construct them, and how that process then works from that point on. I would be more than happy to discuss this further with you, if you would like. Just let me know.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Maybe? But that statement is incorrect regardless of who said it. Many famous people for whom statues have been raised have considered themselves to be skeptical individuals. At least a few of them are famous FOR their skepticism, and their skepticism was a large part of who they were and why they had a statue raised in their honor.

To "Questioning": I apologize. It just occurred to me that the Teddy Roosevelt quote I had in mind was to the effect that no one has ever raised a statue to a critic. The error was unintentional.

SLE

 

[Questioning]

To "Questioning": I apologize. It just occurred to me that the Teddy Roosevelt quote I had in mind was to the effect that no one has ever raised a statue to a critic. The error was unintentional.

SLE

Ah! That makes much more sense! Thanks for the update, SLE, it's much appreciated.

 

[Zendra]

Strawmen can't pick off the labels which are affixed to them. Indeed, that's why they are constructed.

Ok thanks what i meant was it seemed like you were saying that people cannot have their labels removed from them.

 

[Chad]

Questioning has been banned. We don't need insincere "all knowing" sinners belittling others.

Find something useful to do with yourself.

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Here's my personal letter to all atheists who deny GOD.

Dear Atheist,

Do you think its a coincidence that...

you just happened to be here on a Christian site reading this letter? (read)
your calendar says that the current year is 2009? What happened 2009 years ago?
​

updated: March 23, 2009

Pretty cool stuff!

 

[levipattar]

It’s interesting that this thread has ran so long - for three years. I am glad.

Someone said this “Leave an atheist in the middle of the ocean alone in a boat, I don’t think he would be an atheist anymore”

Another “There are no atheists in hell”
Please do not ask me to prove it because I will not be in hell anytime.

The Bible calls the proud as fools and the humble as wise. The fools are so proud and blind that they cannot even see their identity, that they are men.

About Evolution:
Definition of Evolution: n. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.
If it is a "gradual" process then where is the generation of the missing link between apes and humans? Why do we get only complete humans and complete apes? Why not Australopithecus afarensis, Australopithecus africanus, Australopithecus robustus, **** habilis, **** erectus, Neanderthal, Cro-magnon? (I know its hard to pronounce-just try it fellas what these fools [that’s what the Bible calls those who do not believe in God] have done) Where have all these disappeared?

It is good that I am not even a good tree climber.

There are lots of secret societies involved into this conspiracy. They have fooled men and they will keep doing that.

 

[JosephSmith]

Hi, read the thread and wanted to comment.

I'll make this point first for anyone who gets offended. I grew up quite serious about my Christianity. As a teenager, it sometimes bothered me when Jesus or Christianity were bashed. Religion is an emotional issue. The only reason any of us are religious in the first place is because we've been emotionally persuaded to be religious. We see these religious beliefs we embrace as a big part of what makes us who we are. It's completely irrational to get offended though, when religion is criticized. I was completely irrational when I got offended when I was younger. Growing up going to church, we are told that any negative talk about God or religion is such a terrible crime, this is nailed into our heads, and this is why we get offended. We are told God will be dissapointed in us if we don't stand up for him and defend him. So we're basically following orders when we get offended about religion being bashed. We think it's our religious duty to be offended. But the reasons for doing so are not logical at all.

I understand what it's like to be a Christian. I can put myself back into the mindset of when I was a very serious believing Christian (up until 15 years old). As a small child I would pray for insignificant things, and some of them of course by coincidence would happen, so that convinced me God was listening. I felt God's presence, experienced God.. all of that good stuff the religious say atheists are too close minded for. It's because we've experienced what we've experienced that we know better. We know what we experienced was nothing more than a hallucination. Masturbation of the mind. I understand why Christians believe what they believe, but there is one thing I can not bring myself to understand. Knowing how faith works, how can a Christian remain a Christian? We are born to our parents by random chance. You could have very well been born in the Middle East rather than in America. If that were the case, by following the principle of "faith" you'd be worshipping a totally different God and you'd have a different holy book that you accepted to be true on the principle of faith. If you were born to Muslim parents, you would not have given Christianity or Jesus a second thought.

That's how faith works, and that is the main reason I gave up my Christian faith. Christians are against faith too, unless it's the right kind of faith (their faith). Afterall, the Christians believe that the faith of a Muslim child will be his ticket to hell. I was forced to give up my faith because I realised that out of the tens of thousands of gods people have believed in and still believe in, my God had no more evidence than any other.

Our beliefs are not that different. Christians, just like atheists, believe that complex things can exist with no need for a designer. Atheists however, do not believe that complex things can just pop into existence. We accept that complexity comes from simplicity and simple beginnings, after great amounts of time, unlike theists who think a complex God just popped into existence by chance. God only makes sense if you completely ignore the question of where God came from. Who made God? Did he spring out of nothing? Always having existed is out of the question, because that's a squared circle. Something with the ability to think had to have had a “first” thought. We and Christians both believe that things can come to be without a designer, so why is our belief of simple, natural beginnings more silly than believing a sky wizard, complete with magical powers and perfect in every way, just naturally (because God wasn't designed, right?) popped into existence by chance?

What it comes down to for the religious is their phobia of death. You don't want to give up all you've been promised and it's understandable. Sometimes I still wish there was a heaven I could go to. But our desires and wishes have no impact on reality. What's true is true, and there's no changing that. You will never find out you were wrong, and I will never find out I was right. None of us will care what happens when we die, because... well, we'll be dead so we won't have the ability to care. I suspect that none of the Christians here have any sort of fear for the Muslim hell. I have no fear of the Christian hell for the same reason you have no fear of the Muslim one. No evidence for it. I don't think about it for a second and I have long accepted that this is my only life. Christianity is great for the comfort it gives though, right? How much comfort do you think it gives to my parents who have to worry about their 3 year old grand daughter being burned in hell some day, because I'm going to raise her to only accept things that can be backed up by evidence?