Demonic Attacks

[Bill]

@Christina2000

This sounds like the shadow people that have been talked about on the internet for so long. I think they are also called shades and are something about the dead. It doesn't even matter that they are spirits because there are people alive who want to act just as bad as these spirits while they are alive.

The only way to get rid of them is the long fight in the name of Jesus Christ. Don't give into fornication. Keep getting out of bed and praying for the demon Revelation 3:2. Eventually you'll win if you stay with the Lord.

Don't be like the pagan witches and cause more trouble for yourself. They are likely to try all sorts of fancy tricks to help. In the end they will cause all the demons to come back on them though, because they deny Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ warned us that by getting rid of one demon, we can bring 7 more upon ourselves. That's why its such a long grueling process to get rid of them completely. Matthew 12:43-45


43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.(L) That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”

I welcome you to a private chat and where I could talk to you about this privately but I don't think that this is a good place to bring this type of stuff up primarily because for one Christina doesn't need it. those that don't believe in this stuff because they can't find it in the scripture will more than likely just cause a lot of havoc on this thread

 

[Bill]

I feel that praying to Christ for protection is best. It is important not to open ourselves to evil attacks and never to confront any entity directly. Focus on our Shepherd, cry out to Him. He will do the fighting or send angels to do it.

 

[Bill]

I feel that praying to Christ for protection is best. It is important not to open ourselves to evil attacks and never to confront any entity directly. Focus on our Shepherd, cry out to Him. He will do the fighting or send angels to do it.

Like I told you before probably the best thing to do is to go talk to your pastor because I'm sure that he has had other dealings in this manner.

If you have a male friend that would help you with this I would suggest that it would be a wise thing to do. Whether or not you are involved with thinking you can do anything on your own the truth of the matter is is that the darkness is also into hierarchy and there are certain rules that they follow. So having a male friend present and then both of you praying to the Lord to protect you from the darkness would be a wise thing.

I have given some thought to your experience and I thought that first of all it's not typical for a demon to want to get to bed with you the only thing that came to my mind is if the demon was sent via a spell or something like that. Or it could be and I'm going to be kind of blunt here, a situation where you are tempted to masturbate and you know that it's wrong to do so but you do it anyways might have caused that also.

So I would strongly still recommend that you go talk to a pastor you ask the Lord to forgive you of your sins before the pastor so that he could be a witness to that be cleansed before the Lord so to speak and then go from there

 

[PloughBoy]

First, I never "FELT THE HOLY SPIRIT FALL ON ME". All I was aware of Several weeks later, was that there were "Words" in my mind, and when I spoke them, more came, simple as that. Same as "Interpretation of Tongues" - the words (in the common tongue) simply come into your mind, and you speak them. There's no particular "Experience" connected with any of it. And the Bible states that "the spirit makes intercession" and no "spoken language is even involved (Rom 8:26).

If a Cessationist, chooses NOT to have anything to do with the ministerial gifts that God HAS MADE AVAILABLE to the Church, then WHY SHOULD THEY NOT "FEEL LESS" for refusing what God has provided for them???

And since the CONTEXT is that of public ministry, and even though I've spoken in tongues for decades, I've Never been burdened to speak in tongues in a church meeting (only to Interpret Tongues), therefore I would be one who (in context) doesn't speak in tongues.

And yet, Cor 14:4 indicates that speaking in "Tongues" is edifying to the individual, and also states that PROPHESY (which is essentially the same gift but in the common tongue) edifies the church. So why do YOU FEEL that edifying one's self IS A BAD THING???

Then argue with 1 Cor 14:4

Chuckle!! Since when is "Pentecost" a "Gospel"???

NO MAJOR PENTECOSTAL DENOMINATION connects "the baptism in the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:4) with being "Born Again", and becoming a Christian. There are some minor lunatic fringe groups (like the UPCI) that do, but the VAST MAJORITY of denominational "Pentecostalism" does not, and NEVER HAS.

The "GOSPEL" = The Holy Spirit INDWELLING the Christian, and cleansing them of their SINby FAITH (Eph 2:8,9).

The Acts 2:4 phenomenon, was called "The Enduement" (EXTERNAL CLOTHING) of POWER" by Jesus, when he told 'em to hang around Jerusalem until they "Got it". The EFFECT WAS that a SERIOUS number of People were added to the Church, after one Anointed Sermon by Peter.

In Acts 2, "tongues' were the "attention getters", but the "Heavy Lifting" happened when Peter spoke the common language in the power of the Holy Spirit, which "Pricked" the crowd in their hearts (Convicted them of SIN).

Excuse me, just asking a question, You said You NEVER felt ""THE POWER" of The "HOLY GHOST" Fall on you? NOW When The HOLY GHOSTS comes on you it is MORE POWERFUL than if YOU DRUNK a WHOLE FIFTH of JACK DANIELS! You become DRUNK! And STAGGERED, And some ,TAKE OFF and START RUNNING! THIS POWER COMES STRAIGHT from HEAVEN and YOU KNOW IT! And you cannot explain it!! FORGET ABOUT THAT "TONGUES STUFF"

Your Feet and Mouth is going to start singing JESUS!, you are going to be up all night! Your family, going be thinking about committing you to The CRAZY ward! PEOPLE GOING THINK YOU LOST YOUR MIND! AND YOU CANNOT STOP TALKING ABOUT JESUS!

You ain't going to be Thinking about any Tongues! YOUR SOUL is going to be on FIRE! You are going to unButton your Shirt and "LOOK at your CHEST! And Try to figure out what is This! Everybody going to be looking at your crazy!!!! "and He shall BAPTIZE You WITH FIRE"! and you think you old and cannot run.

and this is your quote:
First, I never "FELT THE HOLY SPIRIT FALL ON ME".

BOB, now listening to me. Ask GOD to FILL You with "THE POWER" of THE HOLY GHOST! Keep doing it! WHEN HE DO! Your FEET, is not going to KEEP UP with YOU, They will be moving to slow! TRUST ME.

I have meet PEOPLE in their mid 60, did not know That kind of POWER "EXISTED" on Planet earth! And they had been in Church All Their life! And they ask me how long has this been going on? I always have said, since JESUS went back to Heaven and Sent The HOLY GHOST back to empower you with "PNEUMATIC" POWER, And they always say, "how come the Church didn't tell me this was going on"!

They always, would thank me. For doing something they never would have done, Even a stranger a older person dying on a hospital bed, He thank me, He said; He never would have done what he did in the middle of the night, if I had not told him. He thank me. He died two days later.
And my own "intermediate" family, wonder why I cry, in the middle of the night, and sometimes at noonday. And they tell people, He be crying. And people wonder , what is wrong with me. Some I have in a sense seen their"Final Destination" and The Look on their face.

And knowing That one day in GLORY He will wipe alway all my tears and I will remember them no more.

PS. When That POWER comes on You! Gifts do not mean nothing, TONGUES do not MEAN Nothing! "Prophecy do not mean nothing, your health "DO NOT MEAN NOTHING", your house, your dog, your wife, your car, your church, DON"T MEAN NOTHING! NOW you KNOW!l and YOU cannot wait to Get There! "FOR YOU KNOW, "Your Name is written down in HEAVEN" "Help me JESUS" to tell The Story!
.
After it comes on you, you ain't going to want to sleep, next morning, you wake up, checking to see if it has left. You are not going to want to be around people, because it is going to seem like you are the only one got it. And Only A few a very small few, going to know what you are talking about, even in the church house!

Every time you talk about GOD the More Intoxicating you get! The less you talk about Jesus and GOD, the COLDER you GET! Your head start hurting, you ease out the room, people be wondering where you went. Now they label you, "ANTI_Sociable". Only thing you what to do is talk about "JESUS".

I got to stop, i can go on all day like this.
The more I talk about JESUS and GOD, The more The ANOINTING, ANOINTS My SOUL. So it is now, so it will be in 'ETERNITY" But One Thing, In ETERNITY I will be able to experience THIS JOY better in a "GLORIFIED BODY", because This BODY can HARDLY TAKE IT, The more i am being "SANCTIFIED" THE FULLER THE ANOINTING IN MY SOUL BECOMES, AND THIS Body IS NOT DESIGN, TO CONTAIN such "GLORIFICATION" That has been Decreed.

I lie not.

 

[Laeomis]

I welcome you to a private chat and where I could talk to you about this privately but I don't think that this is a good place to bring this type of stuff up primarily because for one Christina doesn't need it. those that don't believe in this stuff because they can't find it in the scripture will more than likely just cause a lot of havoc on this thread

Well it is in the Bible Bill, that's why I quoted the scripture of Jesus in Matthew 12:43-45. Jesus cast many demons out of people.

@Christina2000 said she felt paralyzed during this encounter. This sounds like a classic case of Sleep Paralysis. Sleep Paralysis is a real condition that effects people right before they fall asleep. A lot of people report it is like they are being attacked by a demon that paralyzes them and is a horrific experience.

Sleep paralysis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Excuse me, just asking a question, You said You NEVER felt ""THE POWER" of The "HOLY GHOST" Fall on you?

Yup, that's what I said. When He Burdens me to manifest a gift, there's a certain stirring in my gut that I recognize as His presence, but that's about all.

I've seen Aisle runners, shakers, fallers, shouters, cryers, (never seen a pew-runner) over the last 59 years, but that's not how HE deals in my life. If that's the way YOU roll, then good for you.

That's not me.

Simple as that. I'm not a particularly emotional person, and react quietly (and hopefully obediently, but not always) in God's presence, and under His Burden.

 

[Bill]

Well it is in the Bible Bill, that's why I quoted the scripture of Jesus in Matthew 12:43-45. Jesus cast many demons out of people.

@Christina2000 said she felt paralyzed during this encounter. This sounds like a classic case of Sleep Paralysis. Sleep Paralysis is a real condition that effects people right before they fall asleep. A lot of people report it is like they are being attacked by a demon that paralyzes them and is a horrific experience.

Sleep paralysis - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Like I said we could have a private talk anytime you're welcome send me a message

 

[Waggles]

@Christina2000
Matthew 6:9 Pray YE therefore thus: Our Father who art in the heavens, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, As in heaven, so on earth.
11 Our daily bread Give us this day.
12 And forgive us our debts, As we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And bring us not into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one.

 

[PloughBoy]

Yup, that's what I said. When He Burdens me to manifest a gift, there's a certain stirring in my gut that I recognize as His presence, but that's about all.

I've seen Aisle runners, shakers, fallers, shouters, cryers, (never seen a pew-runner) over the last 59 years, but that's not how HE deals in my life. If that's the way YOU roll, then good for you.

That's not me.

Simple as that. I'm not a particularly emotional person, and react quietly (and hopefully obediently, but not always) in God's presence, and under His Burden.

Really me either, always had been know, i do not smile much, i do not laugh at jokes, But serious, And they ask me why?
And i tell them, to keep fools off of me. When i am relax and seems approachable, Women, think they can get close, and men have even touch me and grab me in the church! Guess what? WRONG ONE! I go Ghetto and terrorize them on the spot! They would ask me why i was so mean. But if you really got to know me, I am real and don't play, and will not be apart of another person schemes, I will not be apart of another persons corruptions, And the institutionalize church was where I found these atrocities who wanted me to be "bed partners" everywhere i went. I never receive that much pressure directed at me in the world.

I am a person, A Speaker that was empowered, not a jumper of pews, Or a running up and down the Aisles. I am not a SHOUTERS, I am " ORATOR", I have been "GIFTED" by GOD with A "STENTORIAN TONE' Voice. When I am called upon to speak! The Fire Burns and The STENTORIAN TONE kicks in. I had to Learn How to control it. "Nothing but unadulterated WORD of GOD comes out in "SYSTEMATIC" order!
Liken to "EZEKIEL" and "JEREMIAH"!, Amos, Micah!

That is why I got SCARED when I was "BORN FROM ABOVE" at WORK, How could I know to speak The Very WORD of GOD that is written in the BOOK and never have heard or read those words? SKIP Forward to Veering Back**

{and then afterwards read the Bible from front to back about 3 to 4 times in one month. And i thought it was Normal, and everybody in the church was just like me!
Come to find out they ain't read nothing! Like one scripture a day, or their favorite verse. They ain't hardly read nothing! And they are HOLY GHOST FILLED! And fight you about the lies they know about GOD! and the bible]

**Veering back where i left off**

That is why, I had to go to a church!!! WHAT IS THIS! What is these words, and I ask the PASTOR, who is "TIMOTHY"! I TOLD THE PASTOR, THIS VOICE KEEP TELLING ME TO GO SEE TIMOTHY, so I told my Mama, so she called you and you said come over here! And I am FIRE, and I cannot stop Talking about GOD! HIS eyes got RED, like He got high all of the sudden, He start Staggering, He Kept saying; "Oh my GOD, Oh my GOD, OH my GOD"! He told me to keep talking, I was calling JEREMIAH NAME, And what was going to happen in The World! And he Told me, to "Breathe" Breathe, Breathe" stop talking and take a Breath, I was on FIRE from HEAVEN! He explain it to me, what i was and what happen to me. And he said really church is not for you, I know where you need to go. Your church meeting will be of close sessions for Pastors and Ministers during the week!
!st. I thought he was crazy! And he told me go head , "You WILL BE BACK" he was A OLD PASTOR. HE SAID WATCH, and i am not going to say what they all TOLD ME. you would not believe me, if i told you and it does not matter. They said, we cannot teach you anything, "GOD WILL", Me: "What that mean" i said that to myself

As time went on, things came to mind, my whole pass life. Like mother had always told me, you cannot do like other, you will not get away with it, they will, My Aunt start telling about how strangers would see me, watch over that Child , that CHILD HAS THE MARK OF GOD on him, Strangers even as a kid, I would see, people would say, you got the mark of GOD on you. When i got grown, strangers would say, you got the mark of God on you! Ghetto Hoodlums, would say; YOU don't belong around here. Strange life. I cannot do no wrong,. I would always get in trouble if i did any kine of wrong, MY wife get away with everything. She considers that a blessing from GOD.

One day we will see, whats what. i don't know. I don't know how this stuff works. for All I know the devil is playing us! One thing for sure in this Life, Death Will come! How, I do not know, It is written, ,there is life after The Grave.

another Testimony
PloughBoy

 

[GodB4Us]

My faith walk in the beginning I felt the spirit quite a bit but that was a long time ago we're talking 40 years plus. Nowadays I recognize the movement of the spirit in me but I don't get the feeling of the falling on the spirit anymore because I'm beyond that I don't need to have that feeling to recognize the spirit moving.

Unfortunately by your testimony, some will doubt they had received the holy Spirit as promised by faith in Jesus Christ and so they will want what you have and go seeking after it as a sign or proof that they had received Him.

As far as tongues go I'm glad that some people have it but it's not necessary in showing whether or not a person has the gifts of the Spirit. Personally I've stayed away from tongues or trying to use them as there's a passage in Scripture that Paul talks about that you have to have somebody to interpret the tongues

Because unless it is interpreted, it is unfruitful to the one that is speaking in tongues. That is why God's gift of tongues will always come with interpretation, otherwise, it is neglecting the member of the body of Christ that is speaking in tongues.

unless you're using it on your own in a private place.

There is no scripture for tongues used in private place. Paul could not testify to such a practice when he needs two or three witnesses to verify tongues for private use and so the issue is an oxymoron. 1 Corinthians 12:7 testify that the manifestations of the Spirit is to profit the body of Christ and 1 Corinthians 12:19-21 dispels the notion of tongues for private use as if that member of the body needs no other to interpret that tongue for them. That tongue is not of Him.

And he also warns of using the gift of tongues without an interpreter so I just stay away from it all together.

The point of tongues with interpretation is to edify and so that is why Paul exhorted believers that if they seek any gift, to seek the gift of prophesy because it can be used as a stand alone gift per 1 Corinthians 12:1.

But there is something that you're missing and I think a lot of people Miss even if they do have the gifts of the Spirit and it it develops over time but what it is is that anyone who has the gifts of the Spirit but especially discernment can tell whether or not another person has the gifts of the Spirit or not.

The real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people in their native tongue that the one speaking does not know 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 That is why His gift of tongues will come with interpretation in the assembly 1 Corinthians 12:7-12 If any one get a supernatural tongue that does not come with interpretation because it is gibberish nonsense, that is not the real God's gift of tongues, but the pagan tongue as found in the world and the occult. Shun that tongue.

No I want to point out one little thing because there's a lot of confusion in this little detail there's a lot of people that feel that you receive the gifts of the Spirit when you are baptized into the kingdom of God with the water baptism and that's not true.

I agree because the Gentiles heard the word ( and obviously believed the word ) and received the Holy Ghost before confessing Him, before coming forward, and way before water baptism. Acts 10:43-48 That is why Paul said he was not sent to water baptize but preach the gospel because it pleases God to save those who believe the preaching of the cross

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

But I should point out that the Catholic Catechism does believe water baptism is necessary for salvation as being one of the sacraments that Catholics are to do.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.59 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.60 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.61 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

The water baptism brings you into the body of Christ but the baptism of the holy spirit is for the mature Soul so to speak and I say it kind of tongue and cheek there because John the Baptist who received the baptism of the Holy Spirit was still a baby in the womb.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Water baptism does not do anything at all when it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost that is how a believer is baptized into one body. That is how being born again of the Spirit makes one become a son of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

But for the majority of Christians the water baptism is a baptism of the spirit but it is a baptism of the drawing of you to God and bringing faith into your life.

The Father draws us unto the Son John 6:44 and reveals His Son to us so we can believe Matthew 11:25-27 as our believing in Him is a manifested work of God John 3:18-21

However the baptism of the Holy Spirit is an anointing type of baptism that gives you authority to go out and preach to the multitude of people and it gives you power with that Authority as well.

The power to do that was already received at our salvation per John 1:12-13 AND Colossians 2:5-10 testifies that after we had received Christ, we are complete in him to go on to perfection as well as to minister to others the Good News.

We can see this with the apostles who after through Peter revealed that Jesus was the Messiah and the apostles believed that and even though Jesus died on the cross and the apostles were scattered and they finally came to their senses and came back together they were still not baptized with the Holy Spirit but they knew that Jesus was the son of God.

Even after the resurrection of Jesus and Jesus showing himself to the 12 they did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit at that time but they knew that Jesus was God there was no doubt in their mind that Jesus was God then they received the gift of the Holy Spirit afterwards and that empowered them to go out and preach to the world.

Jesus promised His disciple that when He goes to the Father to prepare a place for them, John 14:1-3 He would send the forever indwelling Holy Spirit afterwards John 14:16-17 when He was no longer present with them John 14:25-26

So that incident in John 20:22 and Matthew 10:1-11 was not the moment when His disciples were born again of the Spirit as John 3:7-16 confirms in His answer to Nicodemus that after His ascension verse 13 which is after His crucifixion verse 14 for whenever any one believes in Him is saved hence born again of the Spirit verses 15 & 16

So the notion of being filled with the gifts of the Spirit at the moment of water baptism is a no but there are people who do receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit upon the water baptism or within that range I've seen it myself where I the Lord I was at a baptism where a guy received the water baptism and immediately afterwards the Lord told me to lay hands on him and give him the baptism of the Holy Spirit which I did

I am sure it can happen then just as it did at Pentecost for new believers that His disciples were preaching to which is why Jesus said no one can know when someone is born again of the Spirit because one can be born again without the laying on of hands or water baptism. It is when they come to and believe in Jesus Christ is how and when they are saved. It is the emphasis on the laying on of hands or water baptism or feeling the Holy Spirit fall on them is how it can steal the joy of salvation from those that already believed when none of that is necessary nor serve as proof of salvation when their believing in Jesus Christ is the manifested work of God.

 

[GodB4Us]

First, I never "FELT THE HOLY SPIRIT FALL ON ME". All I was aware of Several weeks later, was that there were "Words" in my mind, and when I spoke them, more came, simple as that.

The way you described the difference between salvation as receiving Him in us and the other as being clothed upon as if a different event, can be misleading into thinking you were referring to the Holy Spirit falling on you then.

And if words came to your mind, then those are words you know in your language, right?

Same as "Interpretation of Tongues" - the words (in the common tongue) simply come into your mind, and you speak them.

Joyce Meyers said she interpret tongues by getting the feel or gist of what is being said and a church that believed they had the God's gift of tongues and interpretation, had hired a linguist to record the event one church service and to translate the event to determine how many different languages was being done there. Turns out it was all gibberish nonsense and not any language of men at all. So I can believe you believe what you had posted, but scripture plainly states that is not how you interpret tongues when it is an actual language. Since the point of the gifts is to edify the body, if everyone is speaking English, then the Holy Spirit will not be vain in going in a round about way to a whole bunch of languages of what He would otherwise say by the gift of prophesy to edify others in their regular language.

There's no particular "Experience" connected with any of it. And the Bible states that "the spirit makes intercession" and no "spoken language is even involved (Rom 8:26).

Well some apply Romans 8:26 of wordless groans as if sounds are being uttered, justifying gibberish nonsense as wordless groans whereas the KJV testifies that the Holy Ghost cannot even utter His groanings. So verse 27 comes into play in how the unuttered intercessions of the Spirit are given and that is by the "he:" that searches our hearts Whom is the Word of God aka Jesus Christ per Hebrews 4:12-16 as this same "he" knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's unuttered intercessions for Him to the Father because that is the Son's job as the only Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Timothy 2:5 because it is to the will of God so that when the Son answers the prayers, the Father is glorified in the Son for answers to prayers ( John 14:13-14 ) for why we are to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

If a Cessationist, chooses NOT to have anything to do with the ministerial gifts that God HAS MADE AVAILABLE to the Church, then WHY SHOULD THEY NOT "FEEL LESS" for refusing what God has provided for them???

And since the CONTEXT is that of public ministry, and even though I've spoken in tongues for decades, I've Never been burdened to speak in tongues in a church meeting (only to Interpret Tongues), therefore I would be one who (in context) doesn't speak in tongues.

And yet, Cor 14:4 indicates that speaking in "Tongues" is edifying to the individual, and also states that PROPHESY (which is essentially the same gift but in the common tongue) edifies the church. So why do YOU FEEL that edifying one's self IS A BAD THING???

Then argue with 1 Cor 14:4

Chuckle!! Since when is "Pentecost" a "Gospel"???

NO MAJOR PENTECOSTAL DENOMINATION connects "the baptism in the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:4) with being "Born Again", and becoming a Christian. There are some minor lunatic fringe groups (like the UPCI) that do, but the VAST MAJORITY of denominational "Pentecostalism" does not, and NEVER HAS.

The "GOSPEL" = The Holy Spirit INDWELLING the Christian, and cleansing them of their SINby FAITH (Eph 2:8,9).

The Acts 2:4 phenomenon, was called "The Enduement" (EXTERNAL CLOTHING) of POWER" by Jesus, when he told 'em to hang around Jerusalem until they "Got it". The EFFECT WAS that a SERIOUS number of People were added to the Church, after one Anointed Sermon by Peter.

In Acts 2, "tongues' were the "attention getters", but the "Heavy Lifting" happened when Peter spoke the common language in the power of the Holy Spirit, which "Pricked" the crowd in their hearts (Convicted them of SIN).

I am not a Cessationist since I believe the gift of discerning spirits is still required today in these latter days when many are departing from faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils 1 Timothy 4:1 and so it is my judgment that tongues for private use is not of Him but of the devil since that kind of tongue existed before Pentecost came with the real god's gift of tongues and believers should not believe every spirit that falls on them but test them.

Not very many believers are taking pause in testing the spirits in these latter days, but believing every sensation of feeling the spirit falling on them is of God. You may not be testifying to this, but I do wonder why you are not saying anything to those that do in this forum for why I am alarmed and Biblically justified for being so alarmed, thanks to Jesus Christ in me.

 

[GodB4Us]

Hey brother I'm not going to keep going on with this it's kind of pointless we just don't believe in anything so walk your way I'll walk mine have a good day

Well I give thanks to the Lord that an attempt of iron sharpening iron was done today and I hope in Him that although He has not caused the increase now, He may yet do so for you down the road.

May God bless you & keep you. May He shine His face upon you and give you His peace.

 

[Bill]

Unfortunately by your testimony, some will doubt they had received the holy Spirit as promised by faith in Jesus Christ and so they will want what you have and go seeking after it as a sign or proof that they had received Him.

Because unless it is interpreted, it is unfruitful to the one that is speaking in tongues. That is why God's gift of tongues will always come with interpretation, otherwise, it is neglecting the member of the body of Christ that is speaking in tongues.

There is no scripture for tongues used in private place. Paul could not testify to such a practice when he needs two or three witnesses to verify tongues for private use and so the issue is an oxymoron. 1 Corinthians 12:7 testify that the manifestations of the Spirit is to profit the body of Christ and 1 Corinthians 12:19-21 dispels the notion of tongues for private use as if that member of the body needs no other to interpret that tongue for them. That tongue is not of Him.

The point of tongues with interpretation is to edify and so that is why Paul exhorted believers that if they seek any gift, to seek the gift of prophesy because it can be used as a stand alone gift per 1 Corinthians 12:1.

The real God's gift of tongues is for speaking unto the people in their native tongue that the one speaking does not know 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 That is why His gift of tongues will come with interpretation in the assembly 1 Corinthians 12:7-12 If any one get a supernatural tongue that does not come with interpretation because it is gibberish nonsense, that is not the real God's gift of tongues, but the pagan tongue as found in the world and the occult. Shun that tongue.

I agree because the Gentiles heard the word ( and obviously believed the word ) and received the Holy Ghost before confessing Him, before coming forward, and way before water baptism. Acts 10:43-48 That is why Paul said he was not sent to water baptize but preach the gospel because it pleases God to save those who believe the preaching of the cross

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

But I should point out that the Catholic Catechism does believe water baptism is necessary for salvation as being one of the sacraments that Catholics are to do.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.59 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.60 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.61 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

1 Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.

Water baptism does not do anything at all when it is the baptism with the Holy Ghost that is how a believer is baptized into one body. That is how being born again of the Spirit makes one become a son of God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Father draws us unto the Son John 6:44 and reveals His Son to us so we can believe Matthew 11:25-27 as our believing in Him is a manifested work of God John 3:18-21

The power to do that was already received at our salvation per John 1:12-13 AND Colossians 2:5-10 testifies that after we had received Christ, we are complete in him to go on to perfection as well as to minister to others the Good News.

Jesus promised His disciple that when He goes to the Father to prepare a place for them, John 14:1-3 He would send the forever indwelling Holy Spirit afterwards John 14:16-17 when He was no longer present with them John 14:25-26

So that incident in John 20:22 and Matthew 10:1-11 was not the moment when His disciples were born again of the Spirit as John 3:7-16 confirms in His answer to Nicodemus that after His ascension verse 13 which is after His crucifixion verse 14 for whenever any one believes in Him is saved hence born again of the Spirit verses 15 & 16

I am sure it can happen then just as it did at Pentecost for new believers that His disciples were preaching to which is why Jesus said no one can know when someone is born again of the Spirit because one can be born again without the laying on of hands or water baptism. It is when they come to and believe in Jesus Christ is how and when they are saved. It is the emphasis on the laying on of hands or water baptism or feeling the Holy Spirit fall on them is how it can steal the joy of salvation from those that already believed when none of that is necessary nor serve as proof of salvation when their believing in Jesus Christ is the manifested work of God.

Even Jesus stated that there were two baptisms in his own word which is the scripture through the voice of John the Baptist.

People tend to forget that even though people in the scripture make the statements it is still through Jesus that the statements are made. And as we can point out that the testimony of the scripture is Jesus himself

 

[Bill]

Well I give thanks to the Lord that an attempt of iron sharpening iron was done today and I hope in Him that although He has not caused the increase now, He may yet do so for you down the road.

May God bless you & keep you. May He shine His face upon you and give you His peace.

I don't expect you to believe what I am telling you about the pre-tribulation Rapture being garbage. How could I it's been drilled into your head for so many years and let's say you have a particular preacher you like listening to and he keeps repeating this garbage to you then I have to ask myself well what other false preaching has this preacher done to poison the minds of God's children.

There are a lot of different false teachings that have been going on for years that have been unchecked. The one that we've even talked to her about that you still have to seek God's forgiveness the sins have been forgiven but you still have to seek God's forgiveness when it comes to sinning. Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have the right to sin. It doesn't give you a blank check saying it's okay to do whatever you want.

Or you're going to be coming up against me in the future and you're going to be screaming to the mountain tops I am a Christian and I'm going to say to you so what. And you're going to complain to me about all the crap that I'm going to bring down from heaven upon mankind. Because the first people that I'm going to go after are the Christians that all say one thing out of one side of their mouth and do another thing out of the other side of their mouth.

And if you don't like it I'm just going to say tough beans. Because the scripture isn't for the pagans although in a way it is the scripture is for the Christians who are so disobedient.

Trust me if you cannot love your brothers the Catholics and if the Catholics cannot find love in their hearts for the Protestants both you guys are going to be up against me.

 

[GodB4Us]

Even Jesus stated that there were two baptisms in his own word which is the scripture through the voice of John the Baptist.

People tend to forget that even though people in the scripture make the statements it is still through Jesus that the statements are made. And as we can point out that the testimony of the scripture is Jesus himself

The only baptism that matters is the one accompanies us at salvation when we first believe in Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is replaced by believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as stated plainly to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44

That is why water baptism is not necessary for salvation and why believing in Him is the crux for receiving the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[GodB4Us]

I don't expect you to believe what I am telling you about the pre-tribulation Rapture being garbage. How could I it's been drilled into your head for so many years and let's say you have a particular preacher you like listening to and he keeps repeating this garbage to you then I have to ask myself well what other false preaching has this preacher done to poison the minds of God's children.

There are a lot of different false teachings that have been going on for years that have been unchecked. The one that we've even talked to her about that you still have to seek God's forgiveness the sins have been forgiven but you still have to seek God's forgiveness when it comes to sinning. Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you have the right to sin. It doesn't give you a blank check saying it's okay to do whatever you want.

Or you're going to be coming up against me in the future and you're going to be screaming to the mountain tops I am a Christian and I'm going to say to you so what. And you're going to complain to me about all the crap that I'm going to bring down from heaven upon mankind. Because the first people that I'm going to go after are the Christians that all say one thing out of one side of their mouth and do another thing out of the other side of their mouth.

And if you don't like it I'm just going to say tough beans. Because the scripture isn't for the pagans although in a way it is the scripture is for the Christians who are so disobedient.

Trust me if you cannot love your brothers the Catholics and if the Catholics cannot find love in their hearts for the Protestants both you guys are going to be up against me.

Well most that believe in the rapture thinks all saved believers will be going but not so. This is why Jesus is warning even His disciples to be ready or else in Luke 12:40-49 and not be in iniquity as Luke 13:24-30 warns.

God is coming to judge His House first and He sent warnings to 5 of the 7 churches in error and exhortation to hold fast in the 2 of the 7 churches abiding in Him or if they do not hold fast, they get the same or else too.

So this is not about the Catholic Church vs the Protestant Church but the body of believers everywhere, but will churches heed the warnings and exhortations given to the 7 churches in Revelation or not? Will individual believers heed the warnings given to them by Jesus Christ to be ready or not? He did prophesy that very few will find it because of false teachings and apostasy in these latter days in Matthew 7:13-27

BTW Catholics and Protestants are all brothers, but on both sides, I have found iniquity abounds and laboring in unbelief also, in coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ because of Catholicism & the religious commitment to follow Christ.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Bill]

The only baptism that matters is the one accompanies us at salvation when we first believe in Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is replaced by believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as stated plainly to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44

That is why water baptism is not necessary for salvation and why believing in Him is the crux for receiving the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ.

Where in the scripture does anyone say that the water baptism is now replaced?

You are showing a little confusion in your thinking process

 

[Bill]

The only baptism that matters is the one accompanies us at salvation when we first believe in Jesus Christ.

John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins is replaced by believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins as stated plainly to the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-44

That is why water baptism is not necessary for salvation and why believing in Him is the crux for receiving the promise of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ.

Where in the scripture does anyone say that the water baptism is now replaced?

You are showing a little confusion in your thinking process.

Where are you getting this bologna from.

The water baptism is essential for going through Jesus to the Father in heaven

 

[Bill]

Well most that believe in the rapture thinks all saved believers will be going but not so. This is why Jesus is warning even His disciples to be ready or else in Luke 12:40-49 and not be in iniquity as Luke 13:24-30 warns.

God is coming to judge His House first and He sent warnings to 5 of the 7 churches in error and exhortation to hold fast in the 2 of the 7 churches abiding in Him or if they do not hold fast, they get the same or else too.

So this is not about the Catholic Church vs the Protestant Church but the body of believers everywhere, but will churches heed the warnings and exhortations given to the 7 churches in Revelation or not? Will individual believers heed the warnings given to them by Jesus Christ to be ready or not? He did prophesy that very few will find it because of false teachings and apostasy in these latter days in Matthew 7:13-27

BTW Catholics and Protestants are all brothers, but on both sides, I have found iniquity abounds and laboring in unbelief also, in coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ because of Catholicism & the religious commitment to follow Christ.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

"God is coming to judge His House first"

Wow, Amazing ---- That is Correct.

Who do you think are His house, hmmmm , Jews, Christians. Yup that is correct.

Jews have the old Covenant, Christians have the new Covenant. Both Sons and Daughters of God

Just to remind you again , there is no pre Tribulation escape plan.

Guess you will have to find out for yourself.

Like i said , at what point will you say, i missed the train . At the breaking of the 6th seal . When the mark of the beast comes , when the antichrist comes , when the Two Witnesses walk in Jerusalem, maybe when Jesus does return you will finally realized, you missed the train

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thank you for sharing but I disagree.

When @Waggles & @Curtis & @Bob Carabbio testify of feeling the Holy Spirit fall on him and got tongues and one of the supposed claims for tongues is the Holy Spirit praying for him, how does that not make the non tongue speaker Christian feel less in the body of Christ when the Holy Spirit is not praying for them, and indeed, wonder if they are in the body of Christ at all since they had not that experience of feeling the Holy Spirit falling on them?

Hank Hanegraaff in his book Counterfeit Revival, testified to those seeking that falling of the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues to have, and no matter how much or how long, when nothing happened, they believed they were of the devil & went into the occult.

Then you have @Christ4Ever testify to being at the altar in a Baptist church to pray for his salvation when he felt the Holy Spirit fall on him BUT without tongues.

A former neighbor across the street testified that she was reading her Bible one day at the kitchen table when she felt the Holy Spirit come over her and giving her tongues and then proceeded to tell me that was when she was saved because she got the Holy Ghost & tongues all at once.

I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. At first she did not know what I had meant but then went on to tell her story that she went to the pastor and inquired what had happened because she was a believer for most of her life. The pastor pointed to someplace in the Book of Acts, but did not conveyed to me what chapter. I assumed it was Acts chapter 2 as they were in the upper room doing every day stuff for why she went on to tell me of others' testimonies of doing other things that she rolled her eyes at but did not care to share what she had heard that was incredulous.

Needless to say she was not seeking that phenomenon nor that tongue, and yet she had been hanging around a church that experienced those kind of things.

Even though she told me that she does not believe that if one does not speak in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not saved, she would have a hard time preventing anyone from using her changed testimony to support that false teaching.

Does any testify to believing the Holy Spirit is not ministering any more because they stopped praying in tongues? Does any testify that because the Holy Spirit is not falling on them any more that God has abandoned them? Usually, these wayward believers will not be so vocal in that regards when that fear of never experiencing that again can lead to thoughts of self condemnation.

I see this phenomenon as a thief and contrary to the truth we have in Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; <---- he can't be the Comforter if He does not abide in us forever.
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. <--- different from how the world sees by receiving spirits

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

We are to beware those who preach another Jesus or another Holy Spirit to receive again, thus preaching another gospel because not every saved believer will test the spirits because they want that phenomenon to be of God.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: <-- "is come" means presently, not in the past and so the same as saying 2 Corinthians 13:5 above.
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. <--same as 2 Corinthians 11:3-4
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. <--- this is the discerning line in testing the spirits knowing He is in you as opposed to the one coming over you

Changed Bible versions have obscured the message as kept in the KJV about how to test the spirits as verses 2 has been altered to believe this is about a heresy which doubts Jesus had ever come in the flesh in the past. Not so.

But as it is, many believers today do not test the spirits nor see how that phenomenon is leading them in their testimony to sow doubts in other believers about others having the Holy Spirit and if they are saved at all.

So I am not sure how you can maintain this statement below after all that.



When it sows doubts to having the Holy Spirit at all thus stealing the joy of their salvation by their faith in Jesus Christ thus wanting the Holy Spirit to fall on them for a sign or proof or assurance of salvation, it does make one feel way less.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Indeed, for those that felt the Holy Spirit fall on them bringing tongues for private use so the Holy Spirit supposedly is praying for them, how can you not ask why the Holy Spirit in you is not praying for you being void of that tongue?

And yet not every one speaks in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.... <---- that means all the gifts of the Spirit is to profit the body of Christ and not for individual use

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you. <----- proves that tongues are not for private use as they would claim no interpretation is needed,

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. <--- tongues for private use divides the body of Christ

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? <---- why ask this question if the Holy Spirit is supposed to pray in tongues or self edify or other supposed benefits for private use?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way. <---- leads into the love chapter to wit tongues without interpretation is love unshown in the body of Christ

Tongues for private use cannot be of Him at all nor the phenomenon of feeling the Holy Spirit fall on believers, be it at salvation or as another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues which is for private use.

The point is the gospel is about Jesus Christ, but so far, believers are being misled into preaching the gospel of Pentecost whether they meant to or not. And some will testify to feeling the Holy Spirit fall on them or feel the presence around him in making him emotional BEFORE believing in Jesus Christ. I will have to say that such persons to do not see themselves as preaching Pentecost as opposed to the preaching of the cross. Usually such conversions will always center on the glory of the falling of the Holy Spirit on that believer rather than Jesus Christ & Him crucified thus Jesus Christ is in the limelight while the epic phenomenon of Pentecost is in the spotlight.

Dear Brother,
Are you trying to draw me into this conversation? Do not!!!

Do, it again, and I'll swap hats to Moderator, and start giving you warnings.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><