Elect according to the foreknowledge of God

[Brightfame52]

The result of Election ! 2


Again, the men of Jn 5:40 did not come to Christ in their attempts to attain to Eternal Life, for they would have thought themselves already on that path, Jesus had just said to them Jn 5:38-39

38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And if ye notice in Vs 38 Jesus indicates that their unbelief is due to a lack of the word of God abiding in them, which i believe speaks of being born of God 1 Jn 2:14

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Whenever one is Born of God, the word is engrafted, rooted in them permanently James 1:18-21

18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

19 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath:

20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.

21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

And so its always through the Spirits effecting His power in them ; So Jn 6:37 is speaking of those given to the Son by Election, and by regeneration/being born of God come to Christ seeking and to believe on Him and become His disciples indeed ! 8

 

[Butch5]

The title of this thread is actually a mistranslation of Scripture. The passage in 1 Peter does not say "elect according to the foreknowledge of God". The translators, probably Calvinists, changed the word order. Here is a literal translation from the Greek text.

1 Peter 1:1–2 (YLT): 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the choice sojourners of the dispersion of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2according to a foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, to obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied!

Notice the word "choice" (eklectos, elect) is in verse one, not verse two. He is writing to the elect sojourners of the "Disspora". The Diaspora is word used to describe the Jews who were scattered among the nation.

What is "according to the foreknowledge of God" is grace and peace to you. Another thing many miss here is that the word foreknowledge is a compound word, before and knowledge. It simply means to know before or to have prior knowledge. It's not used in Scripure in the sense of God knowing the future. It's referring to God or someone else knowing in the past. Paul uses this same word when he speaks of the Jews knowing his past in Acts 26.

 

[Sue D.]

@ Butch5. -- vs 2 the 'foreknowledge' = Gr. Prognosis, lit "before knowledge " . Of God the Father , in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: (NKJV)

The entire book of Revelation-- vs1of chapter 1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ.which God gave Him to show His servants---things that must shortly take place ."

 

[Butch5]

@ Butch5. -- vs 2 the 'foreknowledge' = Gr. Prognosis, lit "before knowledge " . Of God the Father , in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: (NKJV)

The entire book of Revelation-- vs1of chapter 1. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ.which God gave Him to show His servants---things that must shortly take place ."

Ho Sue, what's your point here?

 

[Sue D.]

@Butch5. You seem to have missed the point -- the verse specifies God the Father rather than possibly someone else.
God Does know the future.

Maybe I should be asking what is the YLT version you used.

And why comment that it was probably a Calvinist that changed the word order.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5. You seem to have missed the point -- the verse specifies God the Father rather than possibly someone else.
God Does know the future.

Maybe I should be asking what is the YLT version you used.

And why comment that it was probably a Calvinist that changed the word order.

Hi Sue, I figured that's what you meant but didn't want to just assume it. Of course God knows the future if it's something He is going to do. I can predict the future too, tomorrow I'll be working. I can predict it because I'm going to do it. That's different than saying someone knows what's going to happen that they have no control over.

However, my point is that the word is not used on Scripture of God knowing future events.

The YLT is Young's Literal Translation.

The reason I said it was likely Calvinists is because the KJV was translated shortly after the Reformation and it fits with their theology. Here is the translation in the Wycliff Bible of 1382, the first English translation. Notice chosen, Eklectos, is in verse one, not verse two.

1:1	Petre, apostle of Jhesu Crist, to the chosun men, to the comelingis of scateryng abrood, of Ponte, of Galathie, of Capadosie,
1:2	of Asye, and of Bitynye, bi the `bifor knowyng of God, the fadir, in halewyng of spirit, bi obedience, and springyng of the blood of Jhesu Crist, grace and pees be multiplied to you.

By the 1500's when the Reformation happened we find the Tyndale and the Geneva Bibles have changed it.

Tyndale Bible 1534
TNT 1 Peter 1:1 Peter an Apostle of Iesu Christ to them that dwell here and there as straungers thorowout Pontus Galacia Capadocia Asia and Bethinia
2 electe by the forknowledge of God the father thorow the sanctifyinge of the sprete vnto obedience and springklinge of the bloud of Iesus Christ. Grace be with you and peace be multiplyed. (1 Pet. 1:1-2 TNT)

Geneva Bible 1599
GNV 1 Peter 1:1 PETER an Apostle of IESVS CHRIST, to the strangers that dwell here and there throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God ye Father vnto sanctification of ye Spirit, through obedience and sprinkeling of the blood of Iesus Christ: Grace and peace bee multiplied vnto you. (1 Pet. 1:1 GNV)

The KJV which was translated in 1611 simply followed the previous two.

 

[Sue D.]

So you don't really believe that God is omniscient?!

I grew up with KJV cause that is pretty much all that was available with scoffields notes at.the bottom of the page. Then I switched to the NIV and then back to the KV in the form of the New KJV.

And I'm familiar with the various Bibles previous to the 1611.

How do you know that you won't end up in a wreck and spend weeks in a hospital recovering..

Kind of sounds like you're trying to put God on our level. You Do realize that He's God Almighty you're talking about. He is the only one who knows when Jesus Christ will return..because He will Him when to do that.

 

[Butch5]

So you don't really believe that God is omniscient?!

I grew up with KJV cause that is pretty much all that was available with scoffields notes at.the bottom of the page. Then I switched to the NIV and then back to the KV in the form of the New KJV.

And I'm familiar with the various Bibles previous to the 1611.

How do you know that you won't end up in a wreck and spend weeks in a hospital recovering..

Kind of sounds like you're trying to put God on our level. You Do realize that He's God Almighty you're talking about. He is the only one who knows when Jesus Christ will return..because He will Him when to do that.

I believe God knows all things. However, the future doesn't exist so those events aren't things yet. I honestly don't know if God knows them or not. I don't believe Scripture tells us that. At least I've not seen anything to indicate that.

 

[Sue D.]

Have yiu read the book of Revelation? We learn about the Coming 1000 yr earthly reign of Christ and about the Future heaven and hell. How to be able to go to heaven and stay out of hell.

And the book of either 1 st or 2nd Thessalonians tells about a future rapture and then the second coming of Jesus christ.

All these events are in the future .

 

[Butch5]

Have yiu read the book of Revelation? We learn about the Coming 1000 yr earthly reign of Christ and about the Future heaven and hell. How to be able to go to heaven and stay out of hell.

And the book of either 1 st or 2nd Thessalonians tells about a future rapture and then the second coming of Jesus christ.

All these events are in the future .

Yes, they are things God is going to do.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Brother
@Butch5

may i add a little to what you have shared here for your consideration (not in support of calvinism etc, though)

Notice chosen, Eklectos, is in verse one, not verse two.

1:1	Petre, apostle of Jhesu Crist, to the chosun men, to the comelingis of scateryng abrood, of Ponte, of Galathie, of Capadosie,
1:2	of Asye, and of Bitynye, bi the `bifor knowyng of God, the fadir, in halewyng of spirit, bi obedience, and springyng of the blood of Jhesu Crist, grace and pees be multiplied to you.

By the 1500's when the Reformation happened we find the Tyndale and the Geneva Bibles have changed it.

Tyndale Bible 1534
TNT 1 Peter 1:1 Peter an Apostle of Iesu Christ to them that dwell here and there as straungers thorowout Pontus Galacia Capadocia Asia and Bethinia
2 electe by the forknowledge of God the father thorow the sanctifyinge of the sprete vnto obedience and springklinge of the bloud of Iesus Christ. Grace be with you and peace be multiplyed. (1 Pet. 1:1-2 TNT)

Geneva Bible 1599
GNV 1 Peter 1:1 PETER an Apostle of IESVS CHRIST, to the strangers that dwell here and there throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God ye Father vnto sanctification of ye Spirit, through obedience and sprinkeling of the blood of Iesus Christ: Grace and peace bee multiplied vnto you. (1 Pet. 1:1 GNV)

The KJV which was translated in 1611 simply followed the previous two.

The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is Mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with Me.
Leviticus 25:23


Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry; hold not Thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with Thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.
Psalm 39:12


These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:13


the adding of punctuation marks and verses to the 'script' can cause confusion, but doesn't have to.
I would submit that the calvinist take, made use of such and chose/picked 'select' words to boost the calvinistic doctrine?

The rendering , in English, was not all that far from the original context of the letter by (Simon) Peter, the Apostle.
As the above verses show, the 'concept' or truth of the matter is still completely there.
If we only read one verse at a time, to the exclusion of others following or prior, we will mis-read and mis-nterpret and mis-understand.

not wanting to deter from the thread here, but only sharing something for consideration. (too much, 'the Bible has been changed etc is not good for the ones who are trying to find the Way and are put off by such claims)


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

Yes, they are things God is going to do.

Greetings,

in other words, Sue @Sue D. , what Butch5 is saying/sharing is that God knows for sure those things which He has 'planned' and said will happen, because He is true and does not change and flutter, He is not tossed to and fro.

Of course God knows the future if it's something He is going to do.

the point being made is that Brother Butch5 is stating that he has not seen in Scripture where it is clearly written of every event that will happen being known to God.

I honestly don't know if God knows them or not. I don't believe Scripture tells us that. At least I've not seen anything to indicate that.

If you could give some Scripture to help him see otherwise, that would be most helpful and kind, which i am very sure you desire to be, and that, for the glory and praise of God, Sister.


Bless you ....>


ps... @Butch5
please correct me if i am wrong ....><>

 

[Sue D.]

Okay -- look at 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 18 is describing the rapture .
And ,vs 14 "...even so God Will Bring...." future event.

And I. The book of Revelation 20 talking about future events -- vs 7 " now when the 1000 yrs have expired." Future event.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Okay -- look at 1 Thessalonians 4: 13 - 18 is describing the rapture .
And ,vs 14 "...even so God Will Bring...." future event.

And I. The book of Revelation 20 talking about future events -- vs 7 " now when the 1000 yrs have expired." Future event.

"Secret rapture" in a manner of "sudden disappearance" is a false doctrine. 1 Thess. 4:16 very clearly states that the dead must rise FIRST, that's the first resurrection described in Rev. 20, and the only time that takes place is Christ's glorious return in the previous chapter, which was also written in Isaiah 63:1-6. Since the church is not appointed to the wrath of God, this is talking about us, we'd be dead by then, and we'll be among the great multitude in Rev. 7:9.

 

[Sue D.]

@Jonathan_Gale -- the rapture will happen in the twinkling of an eye. Scripture says that the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who are alive at that time will follow . In a split second. And there won't be any secret when it happens.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

@Jonathan_Gale -- the rapture will happen in the twinkling of an eye. Scripture says that the dead in Christ will rise first and then those who are alive at that time will follow . In a split second. And there won't be any secret when it happens.

All I'm saying is, we could be among the dead, and that's actually a good thing, because we're spared from the great tribulation (Rev. 3:10) of three and a half years. The living are very likely to be the Jews who would mourn when Christ returns (Matt. 24:29-31). There's no guarantee that we'll be alive to experience this. Our hope is salvation and resurrection, not this rapture.

 

[Sue D.]

The rapture is Jesus Christ coming foe all born-again believers -- He will be meeting them in the air. It's not escapism -- our calling Him to come get us. It's God telling Jesus christ thst it's time to get us.

 

[Butch5]

Greetings Brother
@Butch5

may i add a little to what you have shared here for your consideration (not in support of calvinism etc, though)



The land shall not be sold for ever: for the land is Mine; for ye are strangers and sojourners with Me.
Leviticus 25:23


Hear my prayer, O LORD, and give ear unto my cry; hold not Thy peace at my tears: for I am a stranger with Thee, and a sojourner, as all my fathers were.
Psalm 39:12


These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:13


the adding of punctuation marks and verses to the 'script' can cause confusion, but doesn't have to.
I would submit that the calvinist take, made use of such and chose/picked 'select' words to boost the calvinistic doctrine?

The rendering , in English, was not all that far from the original context of the letter by (Simon) Peter, the Apostle.
As the above verses show, the 'concept' or truth of the matter is still completely there.
If we only read one verse at a time, to the exclusion of others following or prior, we will mis-read and mis-nterpret and mis-understand.

not wanting to deter from the thread here, but only sharing something for consideration. (too much, 'the Bible has been changed etc is not good for the ones who are trying to find the Way and are put off by such claims)


Bless you ....><>

Hi Br. Bear,

Yeah, I agree. The JW's have done the same thing. In John 1 they translate it as, 'the Word was a god'. That is a possible translation, maybe not a good one, but a possible one. That translation fits their theology. I don't think it's malicious. Translators have their theology and what they believe the Bible says. It's only natural that they would translate it as they believe correct.

 

[Butch5]

Greetings,

in other words, Sue @Sue D. , what Butch5 is saying/sharing is that God knows for sure those things which He has 'planned' and said will happen, because He is true and does not change and flutter, He is not tossed to and fro.



the point being made is that Brother Butch5 is stating that he has not seen in Scripture where it is clearly written of every event that will happen being known to God.



If you could give some Scripture to help him see otherwise, that would be most helpful and kind, which i am very sure you desire to be, and that, for the glory and praise of God, Sister.


Bless you ....>


ps... @Butch5
please correct me if i am wrong ....><>

That's it!

 

[Brightfame52]

Elect before Faith and unto Faith !

Some in false religion give the lie that the Elect of God dont become so until after they believe, but that is false. There are scriptures that indicate this, titles they[the elect] have before they believe: One such title is God's Sheep or Sheep, or Chosen and these are one and the same ! And they are Sheep before they believe and while they are in a lost state ! This will be shown to be true by a few scriptures; Jn 10:16,26

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Now in Vs 16 they are Sheep that Christ has, but are yet to hear His Voice in the Gospel, they canr become belivers until they hear His voice, because Faith cometh by hearing Rom 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

So faith comes by hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the preaching [of the message that came from the lips] of Christ (the Messiah Himself).AMP

Because they are Sheep they are given hearing ears Prov 20:12

The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, the Lord hath made even both of them.

The hearing of Rom 10:17 is Christ giving Faith or Creating Faith, its the greek word akoé:

hearing, faculty of hearing, ear; report, rumor.

properly, hearing; used of inner (spiritual) hearing that goes with receiving faith from God (Ro 10:17), i.e. spiritual hearing (discerning God's voice; see also Gal 3:2,5, Gk text).

Also in Lk 15:4-7

4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?

5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Clearly the Sheep was a Sheep/Elect while being in a Lost state or condition ! Even before Repentance

Jesus also said once this Matt 15:24

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Does not this statement indicate that they are Sheep/Elect while Lost ? Yes it does !

Even while Sheep in a Lost state they still belong to Christ their Shepherd, so Christ says of His Lost Sheep, other Sheep I have, and they shall hear His Voice Jn 10:16 ! So they are Elect before Faith !