Election (being chosen) is not salvation

[Free gift]

Yes he is - I take all my burdens to him and he lifts them off my shoulders and takes them upon himself
and not just for me, but for millions who are praying to give to him their burdens also

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

Nice..

 

[Brightfame52]

After you show were Jesus was not a champion figure skater .

I never said that.

 

[Brightfame52]

where is that in the bible ? Different words, different meaning . Different context.

You just don't want the truth.

 

[Free gift]

I guess it is in how you read verses of scripture - I kinda get where you are coming from, but with the same verses you cite I just read them differently.
Predestination is about sinners being converted and then becoming adopted as children of God. It is not an argument about freewill, but rather a matter of time and history.

Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
here predestined is definitely referring to adoption of as sons - that is we were not children of God (alienated as sinners) but by the work of God the Son we can be translated into the kingdom of God as sons and daughters

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
1:12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.
As for Romans 8:23 for me that is about the resurrection of our dead souls/bodies and inheriting new glorified bodies.

I certainly read this as our adoption and salvation in God was put into effect, or the plan for this, from the very beginning before the foundation of the world.
Mindboggling I know. God already knew what mischief angels would get up to in his creation.
Sorry but predestination is not mind control that results in the election and salvation of good robots; rather I see it more that the plan to redeem humans from the corruption of fallen spirit beings upon us was purposed
by God from the beginning. And as Jesus has told us all - He is the alpha and the omega - the beginning and the end.
We can read of something quite spiritually mysterious in Genesis 1:1-5 which describes light (God) but there was also darkness (absence of light) before any other material creation concerning the world.

sorry about my previous posts and responses to you @Free gift that were less than kind - you are not a headache.

/
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
here predestined is definitely referring to adoption of as sons - that is we were not children of God (alienated as sinners) but by the work of God the Son we can be translated into the kingdom of God as sons and daughters//
"he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will" Yes saints not sinners . Those that are in him ,and because of being in him they are naturally predestinated to the redemption of the body. ( The adoption) Thats eternal security for the believer. Jesus is a eternal being, those that get ' in him ' are then blessed with all spiritual blessings ' in Christ Jesus ( Eph 1.3) . What was chosen was that all those that get put ' in him ' are chosen to be holy and blameless ect . No one is in him before the foundation of the world . We were lost and without hope in the world prior .

 

[Brightfame52]

Its a terrible argument .

Lol then why you start it?

 

[Brightfame52]

Not according to scripture. I think your referring to Calvinism.
Predestination is of existing saints to adoption/glorification, not sinners to conversion. (Eph. 1:5, 11; Rom. 8:23, 29-30)
Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

Yes according to scripture.

 

[Downunder]

No one is in him before the foundation of the world .

Obviously. Although I am old to my young grandchildren, I was not born back then.
Predestination is to do with the purpose of redemption and what would be required to accomplish this.

 

[Free gift]

Lol then why you start it?

Its a terrible argument, ' you made ' .

 

[Free gift]

Yes according to scripture.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Predestined to be CONFORMED.
predestined to be GLORIFIED
predestined to THE ADOPTION.
ITS THE SAME THING .None of this has happened yet to you .

 

[Free gift]

Obviously. Although I am old to my young grandchildren, I was not born back then.
Predestination is to do with the purpose of redemption and what would be required to accomplish this.

Do you mean the Body ? Our spirit is redeemed the moment we believed. But not the body. The body is predestinated to be conformed / The adoption

 

[Free gift]

[BIBLE[/BIBLE]

Yes according to scripture.

Only in the sense like when a Jehovah's Witness says his beliefs are ' according ' to scripture.

 

[Brightfame52]

Its a terrible argument, ' you made ' .

You started it, so you talking to yourself !

 

[Brightfame52]

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Predestined to be CONFORMED.
predestined to be GLORIFIED
predestined to THE ADOPTION.
ITS THE SAME THING .None of this has happened yet to you .

They have been predestined to happen, and thats Salvation. Even if the predestined one isnt born yet, its going to happen !

 

[Brightfame52]

[BIBLE[/BIBLE]

Only in the sense like when a Jehovah's Witness says his beliefs are ' according ' to scripture.

Well Im not a Jehovahs Witness ! So you may be on the wrong board

 

[Downunder]

Do you mean the Body ? Our spirit is redeemed the moment we believed. But not the body. The body is predestinated to be conformed / The adoption

I have posted previously about the redemption of our bodies - the first resurrection - transformed into glory.
Our spirit and our souls are not redeemed the moment we believe = that is populist deteriorated doctrine - one needs to ask or seek to receive the Holy Spirit in conjunction with water baptism.
Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Being conformed to Christ is through the work of the Holy Spirit during our lives here on Earth by becoming children of light and walking in the fruit of the Spirit.

1Cor 2:15 and he who is spiritual, indeed discerns all things, and he himself is discerned by no one;
2:16 for who knew the mind of the LORD that he will instruct Him? And we have the mind of Christ.

Col 3:1 If, then, you were raised with the Christ, seek the things above, where the Christ is, seated on the right hand of God,
3:2 mind the things above, not the things on the earth,

Rom 12:2 and do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God - the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

 

[Free gift]

They have been predestined to happen, and thats Salvation. Even if the predestined one isnt born yet, its going to happen !

That's what the cult of Calvinism teaches

 

[Free gift]

I have posted previously about the redemption of our bodies - the first resurrection - transformed into glory.
//Our spirit and our souls are not redeemed the moment we believe//
Speak for your self.

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2


//// = that is populist deteriorated doctrine - one needs to ask or seek to receive the Holy Spirit in conjunction with water baptism.///
False this was only a instruction to Israel ( Acts 2.38 ect )
///Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit.///
False . This was a 'sign' confirmation to the Jews . As in the example to Peter by Cornelius demonstrating to the Jews that the gentiles had now been granted repentance ( Acts 11 )

///Being conformed to Christ is through the work of the Holy Spirit during our lives here on Earth by becoming children of light and walking in the fruit of the Spirit.//
False . Being conformed is glorification.( In Rom 8 )

1Cor 2:15 and he who is spiritual, indeed discerns all things, and he himself is discerned by no one;
2:16 for who knew the mind of the LORD that he will instruct Him? And we have the mind of Christ.

Col 3:1 If, then, you were raised with the Christ, seek the things above, where the Christ is, seated on the right hand of God,
3:2 mind the things above, not the things on the earth,
Yes our Spirit is redeemed.

Rom 12:2 and do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, for your proving what [is] the will of God - the good, and acceptable, and perfect.

//

 

[Brightfame52]

That's what the cult of Calvinism teaches

You just dont believe the bible, and cant believe it.

 

[Downunder]

//// = that is populist deteriorated doctrine - one needs to ask or seek to receive the Holy Spirit in conjunction with water baptism.///
False this was only a instruction to Israel ( Acts 2.38 etc )
///Speaking in tongues (praying in the Spirit) is the evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit.///
False . This was a 'sign' confirmation to the Jews . As in the example to Peter by Cornelius demonstrating to the Jews that the gentiles had now been granted repentance ( Acts 11 )
///Being conformed to Christ is through the work of the Holy Spirit during our lives here on Earth by becoming children of light and walking in the fruit of the Spirit.//
False . Being conformed is glorification.( In Rom 8 )

Mexican standoff - you have your doctrine and I have my truth in scripture.