Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tampered With!!

[Shaolin]

I provide a link to the canon of the Church of the East -

TheAramaicScriptures.com

The Holy Aramaic Scriptures: With a literal English translation and transliteration of The Eastern Peshitta New Testament Text, such as given in The Khabouris Codex.

www.thearamaicscriptures.com

Please note their table of contents, so you no longer need to be "possible". Rest assured that the Church of the East would disagree with you about the canon of scripture.


And upon what basis would you decide that God chose the Roman Catholic Church to "preserve" the canon and NOT the Church of the East ??

And why would God change his mind to have the books labeled "Apocrypha" removed from the King James Bible ??

They were okay by God in 1611 but not in the late 1800's ?? Or was God asleep at the switch and forgot to "hand pick" the books that were published in 1611 ??

To that end, I don't find your argument credible.

And I would note that the Catholic view of the authority of scripture is rather quite different from that of the Sons of the Reformation (meaning the Protestants). When Martin Luther rejected the ecclesiastical authority of the Pope, he needed some sort of surrogate and chose Scripture as the final authority. He wanted James and Revelation removed, but by that time it was too late.

While Martin Luther published (and translated) the Scriptures into German, his intent was to show the common folk that he (Martin Luther) was RIGHT. Instead, it blew up in his face, allowing each person who could read to become his own Pope.

Dr. Luther never thought for one moment that any person could arrive at a different conclusion than he, when reading the same text.

Finally, I do understand the reasons why the Sons of the Reformation (and you've given me no reason to exclude you) preach that we are to be led by scripture, but I find it ironic that this very scriptures disagrees -

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.​

(Romans 8:14 KJV)​

The text certainly doesn't say, "For as many as are led by the Word of God (by which most people mean "Scripture" or Bible") they are the sons of God".

Your friendly neighborhood son of God,
Rhema

I see a lot of perverse argumentativeness in your response, based upon a lot of flesh in history, not God.

In the end, it doesn't matter what church did what, what matters is what the Scriptures tell us. I could care less what the eastern catholic church says...and on that matter, I could care less what the western catholic church says; if it doesn't line up with Scripture, then it is false. Period.

As to Scripture, as I said earlier and you left out of your rebuttal, God moved in chosen men to put together what He wanted to be the Scriptures, not the RCC. The reasons why those books were left out is because they have no spiritual value whatsoever, among the other reasons that I already gave. Also, Luther wasn't a "doctor," he was only a monk...not even educated in how to read the Scriptures in his day.

I am not a son of the reformation, and if you cannot see that clear distinction in my theology, then there is reason for concern about your reading comprehension. I do not hold to practically anything that came out of the reformation. I am a son of the pentecostal movement, born and raised. Having said that, I do not subscribe to the various branches that have gone way out into left field (picking up snakes, drinking snake venom, fire dances, and all that other nonsense). The only doctrine that I am aware of that I hold in common with the reformation, is that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh...after that, precious little in reformed theology is true.

As for Romans 8:14, since the Scriptures (that God has brought together in our current Bible) were written by God through the Holy Spirit, through the hands of chosen, Spirit-led men...then the Scriptures ARE the directives of the Spirit. You make a distinction where God does not make one, and that is folly.

Blessings!

 

[Rhema]

I see a lot of perverse argumentativeness in your response, based upon a lot of flesh in history, not God.

You just cannot be serious - that God would protect and ensure that a corrupt church would preserve an accurate canon, while God failed (or was unable) to preserve an accurate teaching to save people. Now that's perverse... that God would just let souls go to hell while turning his intentions instead to preserve some book. Again, given the history of corruption of the Catholic Church, it would be better argued that God had preserved His canon within the Church of the East a church free of such corruption.

While you see my response based in history, I find your position based upon a fantasy of who you think God is and what you think God would do. In fact, you think to search the scriptures in order to find truth, when those very scriptures declare that God would put truth in your heart (not in a book).

Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone {or parchment}, but in fleshy tables of the heart.​

(2 Corinthians 3:2-3 KJV +)​

​

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.​

(Romans 8:14 KJV)​

what matters is what the Scriptures tell us.

Doesn't mean squat if you have the wrong Scriptures, Shaolin.

What matters is what God writes upon our heart.

.and on that matter, I could care less what the western catholic church says; if it doesn't line up with Scripture, then it is false. Period.

And just where do you think you got your scripture from if not the Western Catholic Church?

(Might it have floated down from the sky?)
.

God moved in chosen men to put together what He wanted to be the Scriptures, not the RCC.

No he didn't. Prove it.

The only man chosen to be approved by God was Jesus. And were you to actually do your hermeneutic dance, you'd find that there are portions of your own scripture that contradict the teachings of Jesus. You ran away from that discussion at the other forum. I would hope you don't do that here.

The reasons why those books were left out is because they have no spiritual value whatsoever,

According to WHOM ?? Athanasius? Origen? Eusebius?

What is the measure by which ye measure? You? Your denomination? Who decided these had no spiritual value?

Which convocation of Bishops? The Synod of Laodicea? The Synod of Hippo Regius, The third Synod of Carthage? the Trullan Synod?

The Canon of the Bible: Various councils, synods and canons

You seem to think that men were prevented by God from changing scripture. That's both naive, and damaging, because it's flat out wrong. But I do understand the thing in your heart that drives you to embrace such an irrational conclusion.

Rhema

Also, Luther wasn't a "doctor," he was only a monk...not even educated in how to read the Scriptures in his day.

Now you've fallen down the rabbit hole.

From the Encylopedia Britanica:

Soon after his return Luther transferred to the Wittenberg monastery to finish his studies at the university there. He received his doctorate in the fall of 1512 and assumed the professorship in biblical studies, which was supplied by the Augustinian order.​

Martin Luther | Biography, Protestant Reformation, Beliefs, Accomplishments, Quotes, & Facts

Martin Luther was a German theologian and religious reformer who initiated the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. Through his words and actions, Luther precipitated a movement that reformulated certain basic tenets of Christian belief. Learn about his life, education, writings...

www.britannica.com

 

[Shaolin]

You just cannot be serious - that God would protect and ensure that a corrupt church would preserve an accurate canon, while God failed (or was unable) to preserve an accurate teaching to save people.

It has nothing to do with the corrupt church, and EVERYTHING to do with God's intervention in human history. Perhaps you are allowing that high IQ to run away with you, Rhema. As for God saving people, it is historical fact that God reveals Himself to those who look for Him, and He reveals His saving covenant to those who seek Him out.

Again, as for the Scriptures, I know that you have some kind of weird idea that the Word of God is ONLY words that He speaks to people today by His Spirit, but that is not factual. The Spirit moved through men just like Scripture teaches, and caused them to write down on paper what God wants us to know. I have little patience or toleration for those, who like Benny Hinn, like to talk about how they sit down and have full blown conversations with God...because Scripture just does not give that notion a foundation to stand upon.

That is more New Age nonsense than Biblical tenet.

Blessings.

 

[Br. Bear]

It has nothing to do with the corrupt church, and EVERYTHING to do with God's intervention in human history. Perhaps you are allowing that high IQ to run away with you, Rhema. As for God saving people, it is historical fact that God reveals Himself to those who look for Him, and He reveals His saving covenant to those who seek Him out.

Again, as for the Scriptures, I know that you have some kind of weird idea that the Word of God is ONLY words that He speaks to people today by His Spirit, but that is not factual. The Spirit moved through men just like Scripture teaches, and caused them to write down on paper what God wants us to know. I have little patience or toleration for those, who like Benny Hinn, like to talk about how they sit down and have full blown conversations with God...because Scripture just does not give that notion a foundation to stand upon.

That is more New Age nonsense than Biblical tenet.

Blessings.

what you need is someone like me to help you instead

 

[Shaolin]

what you need is someone like me to help you instead

You seem to be addressing me here...if you are, your point is completely lost. If you are addressing me, then I take it that you agree with Rhema and the points that he makes? Interesting...

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

i am not sure that agreeing with anyone is one of my strong points.

I remember and i know most do, regarding themselves, that before my eyes were open [by the Lord - by the Holy Ghost] no amount of reading the Bible meant anything to me.
After that the Scriptures became more than interesting.

I also know that i was lead by the Spirit even before i had read the Bible... as many in persecuted lands are. How do they do it?


Bless you ....><>
ps... would you rather my low IQ technique of the hammer or the kindness of another... as i am quite sure his kindness exceeds his limited IQ.

Post in Peace - which includes kindness.
------------------------
pps.. i thought you might get a laugh at the picture. The more you put it all together, the more silly comments can sound.

 

[Shaolin]

Greetings,

i am not sure that agreeing with anyone is one of my strong points.

I remember and i know most do, regarding themselves, that before my eyes were open [by the Lord - by the Holy Ghost] no amount of reading the Bible meant anything to me.
After that the Scriptures became more than interesting.

I also know that i was lead by the Spirit even before i had read the Bible... as many in persecuted lands are. How do they do it?


Bless you ....><>
ps... would you rather my low IQ technique of the hammer or the kindness of another... as i am quite sure his kindness exceeds his limited IQ.

Post in Peace - which includes kindness.
------------------------
pps.. i thought you might get a laugh at the picture. The more you put it all together, the more silly comments can sound.

Ah, I get it. As to the comment about his IQ, it was an "inside comment" that he should recognize as NOT an insult.

Blessings.

 

[Br. Bear]

Ah, I get it. As to the comment about his IQ, it was an "inside comment" that he should recognize as NOT an insult.

Blessings.

Perhaps one day he will get promoted to an IR? [comes after Q}
you can tell that i am quite bright!!!

The old Irish chap who taught me the gentle art of the anvil in my early years was known to have a brain of a pea but a heart of an Ox.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Rhema]

It has nothing to do with the corrupt church, and EVERYTHING to do with God's intervention in human history.

Yes, and to think that God would somehow wish to publish and preserve a book while sacrificing souls is rather disconcerting.

It still doesn't answer why you think God decided to elect the Roman Catholic church for the "preservation" of the writings (as opposed to the preservation of the saints) and not the Church of the East.

Perhaps you are allowing that high IQ to run away with you, Rhema.

My IQ is sufficient. But to think that God is worried about a book more so than souls is a bit irrational.

As for God saving people, it is historical fact that God reveals Himself to those who look for Him, and He reveals His saving covenant to those who seek Him out.

Well then, I'm glad we agree that a book is not required. (Else Cornelius would have been up the creek, eh?)

Again, as for the Scriptures, I know that you have some kind of weird idea that the Word of God is ONLY words that He speaks to people today by His Spirit,

No.

Given that you have some background in Greek, I'm surprised that you seem blissfully unawares that there are two Greek words LOGOS and RHEMA whose definitions have been fused together by translators into a singular concept of "Word". There is the LOGOS of God (i.e. Word of God) and the RHEMA of God (also Word of God) that English readers cannot distinguish between. My concern is that people have been so conditioned to use the wrong definitions of Logos and Rhema, that in truth, when they read the phrase "Word of God" it automatically becomes "Bible" up inside their head. And I'm not being ridiculous when I say this. It might not happen within your sphere of believers, but I traverse a broad swath of Christendom and have seen this happen innumerable times - that whenever the common Christian reads "Word of God" they automatically think "Bible". But that's not true to the text. To equate the term "Word of God" with the Bible is to obfuscate both the Logos and the Rhema. If I start calling horses cows, should we be surprised when people try milking horses?

There is no term "Written Word of God" in the Bible. This is an artifact, a creation of religion. There is the "Word (LOGOS) of God" who is Jesus. (And Jesus is not the Bible, now, is he) and there is "Word (RHEMA) of God" who is defined by the Bible as the Holy Spirit of God. But that's it. There is no graphe tou theou. Or you should be easily able to post the verses wherein this phrase is found.

Yes, there is a Logos-word of God that the scriptures portray as Jesus.
Yes, there is a Rhema-word of God that the scriptures directly state is the Holy Spirit.
But neither are the Bible. Again, there is no Written-word of God in the scriptures (a word itself which just means writings).

Rhema is a direct interaction where yes, God Himself talks to you. It truly cannot be understood unless it actually happens. (Like seeing a UFO. Like experiencing an earthquake.) And an event where God directly speaks to you is most certainly not that book sitting over there on the table with the word "Bible" printed on the cover. God desires to speak directly to everyone, Shaolin, and here's the proof -

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.​

(Exodus 20:19-20 KJV)​

The people knew that God was speaking directly to them, as is understood in the Hebrew phrase Ten Dabar (spoken words). Instead, people want some "intermediary" like priests, or prophets, or religion or, in these latter days, a book. And they reject Rhema. And Rhema is not always a pleasant experience.

The Spirit moved through men just like Scripture teaches, and caused them to write down on paper what God wants us to know. I have little patience or toleration for those, who like Benny Hinn, like to talk about how they sit down and have full blown conversations with God...because Scripture just does not give that notion a foundation to stand upon.

I have little patience or tolerance for those who make up religious nonsense like "The Spirit moved through men just like Scripture teaches, and caused them to write down on paper what God wants us to know." Now you say the Scripture teaches this? Where?

Scripture just does not give that notion a foundation to stand upon.

So you then agree that God never directly spoke to Paul?

Interesting corner you've backed yourself into.

Rhema

 

[Shaolin]

Yes, and to think that God would somehow wish to publish and preserve a book while sacrificing souls is rather disconcerting.

It still doesn't answer why you think God decided to elect the Roman Catholic church for the "preservation" of the writings (as opposed to the preservation of the saints) and not the Church of the East.


My IQ is sufficient. But to think that God is worried about a book more so than souls is a bit irrational.


Well then, I'm glad we agree that a book is not required. (Else Cornelius would have been up the creek, eh?)


No.

Given that you have some background in Greek, I'm surprised that you seem blissfully unawares that there are two Greek words LOGOS and RHEMA whose definitions have been fused together by translators into a singular concept of "Word". There is the LOGOS of God (i.e. Word of God) and the RHEMA of God (also Word of God) that English readers cannot distinguish between. My concern is that people have been so conditioned to use the wrong definitions of Logos and Rhema, that in truth, when they read the phrase "Word of God" it automatically becomes "Bible" up inside their head. And I'm not being ridiculous when I say this. It might not happen within your sphere of believers, but I traverse a broad swath of Christendom and have seen this happen innumerable times - that whenever the common Christian reads "Word of God" they automatically think "Bible". But that's not true to the text. To equate the term "Word of God" with the Bible is to obfuscate both the Logos and the Rhema. If I start calling horses cows, should we be surprised when people try milking horses?

There is no term "Written Word of God" in the Bible. This is an artifact, a creation of religion. There is the "Word (LOGOS) of God" who is Jesus. (And Jesus is not the Bible, now, is he) and there is "Word (RHEMA) of God" who is defined by the Bible as the Holy Spirit of God. But that's it. There is no graphe tou theou. Or you should be easily able to post the verses wherein this phrase is found.

Yes, there is a Logos-word of God that the scriptures portray as Jesus.
Yes, there is a Rhema-word of God that the scriptures directly state is the Holy Spirit.
But neither are the Bible. Again, there is no Written-word of God in the scriptures (a word itself which just means writings).

Rhema is a direct interaction where yes, God Himself talks to you. It truly cannot be understood unless it actually happens. (Like seeing a UFO. Like experiencing an earthquake.) And an event where God directly speaks to you is most certainly not that book sitting over there on the table with the word "Bible" printed on the cover. God desires to speak directly to everyone, Shaolin, and here's the proof -

And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die. And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.​

(Exodus 20:19-20 KJV)​

The people knew that God was speaking directly to them, as is understood in the Hebrew phrase Ten Dabar (spoken words). Instead, people want some "intermediary" like priests, or prophets, or religion or, in these latter days, a book. And they reject Rhema. And Rhema is not always a pleasant experience.


I have little patience or tolerance for those who make up religious nonsense like "The Spirit moved through men just like Scripture teaches, and caused them to write down on paper what God wants us to know." Now you say the Scripture teaches this? Where?


So you then agree that God never directly spoke to Paul?

Interesting corner you've backed yourself into.

Rhema

I was going to respond to everything, until it hit me that practically everything you came back with is flesh. I haven't backed myself into any corner, but you have demonstrated over and over again that the Spirit doesn't guide your thinking processes, only the flesh does.

Blessings.