Exposing!! The Corrupt Counterfeit (NIV) Bible, Verses That Have Been Tampered With!!

[Admon Mikha'el]

You either don't get it, or you are being "that way."

Show me one person who claims that the Holy Spirit gave them supernatural knowledge and understanding of the history or culture behind a verse of Scripture. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, it has everything to do with the human condition. So, are you purposely slanting things because you are protecting your bias, or do you seriously lack that much spiritual intuition?

Let's test that...here is a passage, please tell me what you think it means:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Is Jesus teaching here, or speaking prophetically?
Is He talking to Christians or non-christians?
What does He address in verse 21?
What does He address in verse 22?
What does He address in verse 23?
What does He indirectly reference in all three verses that must be understood in order to correctly understand the passage?

I eagerly await your reply...

Holy Spirit does not have to give a person understanding or knowledge of history....He teaches us HIS WORD...He teaches us what HE means when He says something....And He can easily apply it to today....You must think the Holy Spirit spends His time hiding in the tall grass.

 

[Shaolin]

Holy Spirit does not have to give a person understanding or knowledge of history....He teaches us HIS WORD...He teaches us what HE means when He says something....And He can easily apply it to today....You must think the Holy Spirit spends His time hiding in the tall grass.

Nice try. I noticed that you didn't even try to answer the questions...very telling.

I do not think anything of the sort that you claim above, but you do show how naive you are concerning the Scriptures, and that, too, is telling. No offence intended.

blessings

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Nice try. I noticed that you didn't even try to answer the questions...very telling.

I do not think anything of the sort that you claim above, but you do show how naive you are concerning the Scriptures, and that, too, is telling. No offence intended.

blessings

You better believe I'm naive concerning the Word....I believe that if God said it, it's true, for me, and for today.....Go figure!! One does not need to be a brainiac to read the Word and listen to the Holy Spirit. Even a literal moron can be taught by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

please try to remember that personal derogatory remarks are not acceptable here at TalkJesus

Not saying anyone is 'guilty' or not but i can see a potential storm brewing.

Let this be your motto on the forums:
Post in Peace, prayerfully.... or do not post at all


Bless you ....><>

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Greetings all,

please try to remember that personal derogatory remarks are not acceptable here at TalkJesus

Not saying anyone is 'guilty' or not but i can see a potential storm brewing.

Let this be your motto on the forums:
Post in Peace, prayerfully.... or do not post at all


Bless you ....><>

Not sure what derogatory remarks you mean...Did I do that?

 

[Br. Bear]

Not sure what derogatory remarks you mean...Did I do that?

Not saying anyone is 'guilty' or not but i can see a potential storm brewing.

a bit like watching children playing and getting closer to breaking something... or playing too close to the fire.... nobody is hurt but a wee warning to be careful is sometimes needed.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

a bit like watching children playing and getting closer to breaking something... or playing too close to the fire.... nobody is hurt but a wee warning to be careful is sometimes needed.


Bless you ....><>

LOL Well that's a relief....I'm not having a good day today...Cognition is really slow....I was done talking anyway...

 

[Shaolin]

You better believe I'm naive concerning the Word....I believe that if God said it, it's true, for me, and for today.....Go figure!! One does not need to be a brainiac to read the Word and listen to the Holy Spirit. Even a literal moron can be taught by the Holy Spirit.

I also believe that "if God said it, it's true," the problem today is whether or not what we are told is actually what was said, and many times it isn't. Hermeneutics is used to verify what we think the Holy Spirit's intended meaning in a verse actually is; it does not replace the Holy Spirit, and that is what you seem to be thinking. And you still have avoided answering the questions I put to you, and I can't help but wonder why (but not too hard). As for listening to the Holy Spirit while reading the Word, Scripture gives us numerous examples of people who cannot hear His voice even when claiming to be listening, like you just did.

If you hate someone, or have a dark attitude, or are not walking in obedience to God, and a few others...then you cannot hear His voice, no matter what you want. And when someone neck-deep in these issues think they hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them, well...since they are not able to hear His voice, the voice that they hear obviously isn't His.

While I believe the Holy Spirit "can" teach a "literal moron," the FACT is that He does not operate like that. "Can" and "does" are two entirely different things, and human experience and real world experience demonstrates that He does not.

Blessings

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I also believe that "if God said it, it's true," the problem today is whether or not what we are told is actually what was said, and many times it isn't. Hermeneutics is used to verify what we think the Holy Spirit's intended meaning in a verse actually is; it does not replace the Holy Spirit, and that is what you seem to be thinking. And you still have avoided answering the questions I put to you, and I can't help but wonder why (but not too hard). As for listening to the Holy Spirit while reading the Word, Scripture gives us numerous examples of people who cannot hear His voice even when claiming to be listening, like you just did.

If you hate someone, or have a dark attitude, or are not walking in obedience to God, and a few others...then you cannot hear His voice, no matter what you want. And when someone neck-deep in these issues think they hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them, well...since they are not able to hear His voice, the voice that they hear obviously isn't His.

While I believe the Holy Spirit "can" teach a "literal moron," the FACT is that He does not operate like that. "Can" and "does" are two entirely different things, and human experience and real world experience demonstrates that He does not.

Blessings

I also believe that "if God said it, it's true," the problem today is whether or not what we are told is actually what was said, and many times it isn't. Hermeneutics is used to verify what we think the Holy Spirit's intended meaning in a verse actually is; it does not replace the Holy Spirit, and that is what you seem to be thinking. And you still have avoided answering the questions I put to you, and I can't help but wonder why (but not too hard). As for listening to the Holy Spirit while reading the Word, Scripture gives us numerous examples of people who cannot hear His voice even when claiming to be listening, like you just did.

If you hate someone, or have a dark attitude, or are not walking in obedience to God, and a few others...then you cannot hear His voice, no matter what you want. And when someone neck-deep in these issues think they hear the Holy Spirit speaking to them, well...since they are not able to hear His voice, the voice that they hear obviously isn't His.

While I believe the Holy Spirit "can" teach a "literal moron," the FACT is that He does not operate like that. "Can" and "does" are two entirely different things, and human experience and real world experience demonstrates that He does not.

Blessings

So you're still explaining it in a way that indicates that the Holy Spirit is not capable of teaching a person what He means in the Word... For a person who cannot read, or for a person who is crippled up cognition-wise, such a person would have no hope because of lack of prior knowledge. I do hope I'm being clear, I'm in something of a fog today...

 

[Gregoryp]

So I can conclude from these arguments about bibles, that God is an author of confusion, mayhem and chaos. Hence why this God sent out many different manuscripts for man to study and learn from. This is quite a god these people worship. And obviously his enemy Satan does not interfere in the bible, he openly encourages people to read at least one of the versions. So I have been worshipping the wrong God since i was ten years old then, wow, I feel awful now, what a waste of 38 years of my spiritual life!

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

So I can conclude from these arguments about bibles, that God is an author of confusion, mayhem and chaos. Hence why this God sent out many different manuscripts for man to study and learn from. This is quite a god these people worship. And obviously his enemy Satan does not interfere in the bible, he openly encourages people to read at least one of the versions. So I have been worshipping the wrong God since i was ten years old then, wow, I feel awful now, what a waste of 38 years of my spiritual life!

Do you honestly believe that, Sir?

 

[Shaolin]

So you're still explaining it in a way that indicates that the Holy Spirit is not capable of teaching a person what He means in the Word... For a person who cannot read, or for a person who is crippled up cognition-wise, such a person would have no hope because of lack of prior knowledge. I do hope I'm being clear, I'm in something of a fog today...

No, the Holy Spirit is capable to do anything, He is God. Again, what I said has NOTHING to do with God's ability or the Spirit's ability, you keep putting it on them and that is not what I am saying. God does not force anything upon you, not salvation, not sanctification, not anything - and that includes understanding of Scripture.

If you lived in Palestine in the first century, then you could understand Paul's writings immediately - because you would have spoke and understand Greek, you would have grown up in that day and understood the politics, culture, etc. You would have no natural blocks to a spontaneous understanding of what the Spirit wrote through the hands of men.

- NOW however -

You do not speak Greek, nor read it nor understand it. You do not know or understand the politics or culture of the day when Paul wrote, nor do you understand the references he makes to covenant or any other mechanism of his day - because you were born 2000+ years afterward. YOU do NOT have a spontaneous understanding of the background information of the day, and that cripples your hopes of understanding what Paul says unless you study the history and culture and language of the day so that you can understand it just by reading it.

This is all about YOU, not God or His Spirit. He "can" give you the intended meaning of His Word willy-nilly if He wants to, but He has chosen NOT to because you can't get strong in the Spirit by being patsied all your life. God does not give you a car, He makes you work for it, because that is the right thing to do. Again - I have never heard a person ever claim that God gave him the supernatural knowledge and understanding of the history or cultural background of Scripture. Never. If you have, then please let us know.

And prior knowledge as you put it, is not the issue - the issue is studying to learn what you need to in order to be able to read and understand what's going on. None of us today have spontaneous understanding and knowledge of the background history and culture of Scripture, we all have to learn it. Some do because they have good pastors who know what they are doing, while some (most today) do not because they either do not have a good pastor, or they don't attend church at all. No where in Scripture does it tell you that God will give you the understanding with no effort from you at all. If you think you have one, please bring it forward.

Blessings.

 

[Shaolin]

So I can conclude from these arguments about bibles, that God is an author of confusion, mayhem and chaos.

No, you cannot. We are not talking about the manuscripts, we are talking about faulty men's translations of those manuscripts. Translations have nothing to do with God, it is all on man.

Hence why this God sent out many different manuscripts for man to study and learn from.

No, not different manuscripts, copies of the original manuscripts...but you are making a good gnostic argument...

This is quite a god these people worship. And obviously his enemy Satan does not interfere in the bible, he openly encourages people to read at least one of the versions. So I have been worshipping the wrong God since i was ten years old then, wow, I feel awful now, what a waste of 38 years of my spiritual life!

Again, your negative sarcasm is duly noted. At least try to understand what you are making fun of, if not, then why are you here...

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

No, the Holy Spirit is capable to do anything, He is God. Again, what I said has NOTHING to do with God's ability or the Spirit's ability, you keep putting it on them and that is not what I am saying. God does not force anything upon you, not salvation, not sanctification, not anything - and that includes understanding of Scripture.

If you lived in Palestine in the first century, then you could understand Paul's writings immediately - because you would have spoke and understand Greek, you would have grown up in that day and understood the politics, culture, etc. You would have no natural blocks to a spontaneous understanding of what the Spirit wrote through the hands of men.

- NOW however -

You do not speak Greek, nor read it nor understand it. You do not know or understand the politics or culture of the day when Paul wrote, nor do you understand the references he makes to covenant or any other mechanism of his day - because you were born 2000+ years afterward. YOU do NOT have a spontaneous understanding of the background information of the day, and that cripples your hopes of understanding what Paul says unless you study the history and culture and language of the day so that you can understand it just by reading it.

This is all about YOU, not God or His Spirit. He "can" give you the intended meaning of His Word willy-nilly if He wants to, but He has chosen NOT to because you can't get strong in the Spirit by being patsied all your life. God does not give you a car, He makes you work for it, because that is the right thing to do. Again - I have never heard a person ever claim that God gave him the supernatural knowledge and understanding of the history or cultural background of Scripture. Never. If you have, then please let us know.

And prior knowledge as you put it, is not the issue - the issue is studying to learn what you need to in order to be able to read and understand what's going on. None of us today have spontaneous understanding and knowledge of the background history and culture of Scripture, we all have to learn it. Some do because they have good pastors who know what they are doing, while some (most today) do not because they either do not have a good pastor, or they don't attend church at all. No where in Scripture does it tell you that God will give you the understanding with no effort from you at all. If you think you have one, please bring it forward.

Blessings.

Interesting God did give me a car, then later a pickup truck...free and clear...He gave my wife a car...free and clear...When I got sick He cancelled $50,000.00 worth of debt for me....He healed me when I was younger of Athsma....on the spot.....All because I believed what I read in the Book....Don't tell me that it's all about me...Its about the King! Its all about the King!

 

[Gregoryp]

No, you cannot. We are not talking about the manuscripts, we are talking about faulty men's translations of those manuscripts. Translations have nothing to do with God, it is all on man.





No, not different manuscripts, copies of the original manuscripts...but you are making a good gnostic argument...





Again, your negative sarcasm is duly noted. At least try to understand what you are making fun of, if not, then why are you here...

my point was, rely on the holy spirit and his wisdom for the truth. Mankind changes scripture with the prodding of satan and his demons. If scripture has been removed, that alone should send alarm bells ringing.

 

[Br. Bear]

Its about the King! Its all about the King!

yes!

 

[Shaolin]

Interesting God did give me a car, then later a pickup truck...free and clear...He gave my wife a car...free and clear...When I got sick He cancelled $50,000.00 worth of debt for me....He healed me when I was younger of Athsma....on the spot.....All because I believed what I read in the Book....Don't tell me that it's all about me...Its about the King! Its all about the King!

Interesting, but you aren't addressing my point. It has nothing to do with God when it comes to whether or not you understand Scripture, not cars or healing or anything else. Again, Scripture points to the fact that if you hate someone, then you cannot see God's truth, and that is only one attitude that prevents such understanding. If you want to get hyper spiritual about it, yes...the Holy Spirit CAN...IF you meet all of the criteria Scripture teaches and you live in a cave where you can concentrate on hearing His voice - that is, unless you mess up there and don't listen to His voice because what He might be trying to show you goes against your preconceived biases...then you shut out His voice.

All those things you say above are nice and praise God for it. But I'm done for this subject.

Blessings.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Interesting, but you aren't addressing my point. It has nothing to do with God when it comes to whether or not you understand Scripture, not cars or healing or anything else. Again, Scripture points to the fact that if you hate someone, then you cannot see God's truth, and that is only one attitude that prevents such understanding. If you want to get hyper spiritual about it, yes...the Holy Spirit CAN...IF you meet all of the criteria Scripture teaches and you live in a cave where you can concentrate on hearing His voice - that is, unless you mess up there and don't listen to His voice because what He might be trying to show you goes against your preconceived biases...then you shut out His voice.

All those things you say above are nice and praise God for it. But I'm done for this subject.

Blessings.

Your point that you need to understand the historical aspect is simply nonsense....All you need to do is trust the Holy Spirit and obey. So please stop the silliness and get into the Word.

 

[Shaolin]

Your point that you need to understand the historical aspect is simply nonsense....All you need to do is trust the Holy Spirit and obey. So please stop the silliness and get into the Word.

Let's see if it is nonsense...you chickened out last time, here's your chance to make me eat my words. Answer the questions that I gave you earlier, that you ignored out of fear:

Let's test that...here is a passage, please tell me what you think it means:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Is Jesus teaching here, or speaking prophetically?
Is He talking to Christians or non-christians?
What does He address in verse 21?
What does He address in verse 22?
What does He address in verse 23?
What does He indirectly reference in all three verses that must be understood in order to correctly understand the passage?

I eagerly await your reply...

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Let's see if it is nonsense...you chickened out last time, here's your chance to make me eat my words. Answer the questions that I gave you earlier, that you ignored out of fear:

Let's test that...here is a passage, please tell me what you think it means:

Matthew 7:21-23
21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Is Jesus teaching here, or speaking prophetically?
Is He talking to Christians or non-christians?
What does He address in verse 21?
What does He address in verse 22?
What does He address in verse 23?
What does He indirectly reference in all three verses that must be understood in order to correctly understand the passage?

I eagerly await your reply...

I'm not interested in making you eat your words...I'm not interested in making you look liike a fool. What I just said is enough. I think the verse means what it says.