false teachers

[farout]

False teachers and or false preachers: I think in order to come out and say someone is a false teacher / preacher. the defination of false needs to be out there first. So, what's your defination of false teacher / preacher ?

Here is some of mine; That a teacher / preacher does not live an extravagent life style. They are financally responsible and their ministries income is accountable to the people that support that minister / preacher. They are orthodox in the understanding, and preaching / teaching of the Bible. That what they preach or teach is Bibically solid. . That all races and people are treated with respect, and not target one ethnic group of people because of lower education, or poverty. That their sexual life and ethics are free of indiscretion's. The person be a genuine believer in Jesus Christ. The core of their life, and preaching / teaching is Jesus Christ, and believe mankinds only hope and salvation is in Jesus Christ, the SON of GOD. That there is no other way to heaven but by making Jesus Christ Lord of all.

When a preacher / teacher just gives forth good feeling messages that just encourages people all the time, that will bring in huge crowds. that just want to feel good, With all the things I have mentioned, does this bring any false teacher / preacger to your mind ?

 

[spirit1st]

It all comes down too ? We are doing all things for HIS glory and Honor or for our selves. God uses all mankind. Many preach the gospel and many accept the LORD. The person preaching it might go to hell or they might have no rewards in New Jerusalem. They might have there rewards here and nothing in the eternal ?

No one knows 100% Truth , But all we really need to know is the LORD good news . The way to salvation. The Love of money can change a persons thinking quickly. and make them think they are so much more than others. When they are less than any?

Many have gotten very rich off others Love for the LORD.

If we could all be rich in what this world has? Then why were these great people of GOD so poor?

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

 

[B-A-C]

Very few subjects in the Bible are talked about more. One one or two things have more warning verses. Yes some of the televangelists listed earlier could be considered.
But this happens frequently even here on TJ. Usually they are called out. But some aren't. My advice, just study the Word and pray. Yes that's cliche' to say. But it works.
In my experience it's much easier to teach a new convert the truth, than to try to convince someone who has believed a certain way for most of their life that something is unbiblical.
Much of the way the Bible is interpreted these days has to do with something called "your world-view of God".

Matt 7:15; "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
Matt 24:11; "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
Matt 24:24; "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
Acts 13:6; When they had gone through the whole island as far as Paphos, they found a magician, a Jewish false prophet whose name was Bar-Jesus,
2 Cor 11:13; For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:26; I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren;
Gal 2:4; But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.
2 Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, ( because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved.)
2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2 Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
1 Jn 4:1; Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Rev 2:2; 'I know your deeds and your toil and perseverance, and that you cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be false;
1 Tim 1:3; As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines,
1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
Heb 13:9; Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, through which those who were so occupied were not benefited.
2 Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you are quite alright with this.
Gal 1:6; I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal 1:7; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8; But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Gal 1:9; As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Jude 1:4; For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

1 Pet 4:17; For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
Matt 10:16; "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.

Be careful .... be alert..
1 Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

 

[Brighthouse]

You all here have made as usual some very excellent points!! So my comment will be short and sweet. hehe Acts 5:38-39 says this."So in the present case,I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone,for if this plan or action is of men it will be over thrown";( some people come to mind for us here?? hehe) "BUT!!!! if it is of God you will not be able to over throw them; or else you may even be found fighting against God." I know of many who minister who are called to question.I have also seen them still around as well.Just something for us all to consider. Blessing all

 

[B-A-C]

So my comment will be short and sweet. hehe Acts 5:38-39 says this."So in the present case,I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone,for if this plan or action is of men it will be over thrown"

You know it's funny, Gamaliels creed as this is called. Gamaliel was a well known Pharisee of the time, he is mentioned a few times in the Bible (he was Paul's mentor when he was a Pharisee).
I find it interesting, that even Gamaliel didn't follow his own advice and "leave them alone" but had them whipped. Obviously this didn't stop Paul.

I personaly am strongly opposed to "just let them teach whatever they want". I believe the Bible strongly opposes this.
I believe not only will they be held accountable for leading others astray. But we will be held accountable for letting them.

Jas 4:17; Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.
Jas 5:20; let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sin
Php 1:16; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel;
Luke 17:3; "Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
2 Tim 4:2; preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
Tit 1:10; For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision,
Tit 1:11; who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain.

 

[Brighthouse]

And brother Bac you have very good reason to be opposed to it,but what can you yourself do about it? We of course can look to reason to others about it sure! But in the end, all will believe what they choose to believe in won't they. While it is so very easy to point to flaws another teacher may have,yet there ministry is still very much alive? How is this possible without God? I knew a preacher once who I admired and respected,who also was a terrible drunk. He preached many things that were both right and wrong,yet God choose to minister to the people through his ministry.

So if people do receive Jesus through a ministry who's teaching can be both right and wrong.and I do not know very many who do not have flaws. What are we the believer to preach to others about them? I do not see us as the judges of what others do brother,I see us as the judges as to what we are to do. Many will on that day say this.( matt 7:21-27) This Word I do not apply to others brother,because I cannot do anything except to warn others,which is fine to do as you are led to.I apply this to ME! For is it by our works others are saved? Or rather how God's Spirit chooses for us to become chosen by him in the first place?( john 15:16) So is it ok to tell the Lord how he is to do that? Many may think so brother,but I do not for myself.

We are not saved by any other ministry, we are saved through both the blood of Christ and by our belief in his word.( rom 10:10) Can you become angry by what others choose to teach the body of Christ? SURE!!! Just do not let the sun go down upon your anger,for who does one hurt by there anger??The person in question,or our own relationship?I have always found the second has been true for my life bro. I do not choose for you or anyone else! The wisdom of God stems not from belief of what others are doing,but rather in our own belief of what Jesus has already done for each of us. You can sure disagree with me!! You have that freedom and right! But my peace and rest in Christ Jesus does not stem from what others are teaching,I am established through his Word and belief of it.And my life even as yours bears witness to the very truth we in Christ walk in bro. So please just consider this.( col 2:6-10) When we know how complete we have already made through Christ Jesus ,what fear do we have of others who teach something false? ( 2 tim 2:15) We know the truth, when we have become set by that truth.This good brother is a process for us all.( phil 1:6) I once did as many have done to other brothers and sisters,and a good brother came up to me one day and asked what I am doing about it? I am telling people I said!! He replied is it not better to show others, then tell them? I changed my mind from the point bro. James 1:22) Our lives are to become a living testimony to our Jesus at all times in our life,and the sooner I realized this, the better I was to administer the same grace and mercy I myself so needed.amen

 

[Brighthouse]

One more point, because brother Bac mentioned something most interesting to me! Paul mentor who was a Phariisee, as was Paul himself!! hehe Phil 3:5!! To me this is why he said what he said in Phil 3:12-14 What stopped his love he wanted so much to have,was the teaching he received so long ago that he would go back to. If we go back,then we cannot follow( john 13:34) Later Paul finished his work with honors! 2 tim 4:6-8) The crown we all in Christ Jesus have, is due to the very foundation Christ Jesus already laid for us!! ( psalm 127:1) LOVE!! But the wisdom of God is what presents this,not our own knowledge of it. Thanks brother Bac for that reminder as well to me!!

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1 Timothy 4:12

(I may have posted this in another thread in the past).....Back in 1662 Thomas Brooks wrote this on discerning false pastors:
It appears to be just as relevant today and to considering points raised in this thread

How many are there in these days, who are more ready and willing to make a sacrifice of the gospel—
for profit sake,
and preferment sake,
and honor sake,
and lust's sake!.....

(To) Pastors! Either preach as the ministers of Jesus Christ ought to preach—
plainly,
spiritually,
powerfully,
feelingly,
fervently,
frequently;
And live as the ministers of Jesus Christ ought to live
heavenly,
graciously,
holily,
humbly,
righteously,
harmlessly,
exemplary

Or else lay down your names of being the ministers of Jesus Christ.
Do not any longer put a cheat upon yourselves, nor upon the people—by making them believe that you are ministers of Jesus Christ, when you have:
nothing of the spirit of Christ,
nor of the anointings of Christ,
nor of the grace of Christ,
nor of the life of Christ in you.

 

[spirit1st]

satan tricks many into thinking they need money to pay for everything and then when they have more than they need? they are tricked into building bigger and more. Then they are back in debt and here we go again. Over and over.

Others preach named it and claim it. They feel no matter what the money is mainly for them . They buy so much junk ,they can never use.

It has amazed me? Some know Lots of spiritual trues. Yet appear so greedy and self centered. Maybe some of these are born again? If so they have there rewards.
The Eternal the Very most important thing. Nothing is more important and it what GOD deals First with always.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

I do not like talking about preachers. If they are evil they be sorry .if of God we need to Love them .

Hard to know which are of God and which are not most of the time.

I liked watching one guy until He said ? Tithing was really 23 5 of all you make and that was not enough. After you pay that? Then How much you give that church or preacher was How much you really Love GOD. It was such a evil Burden to put on People.

How many families and children and others will suffer in HIS church over that junk?

I know when young my family suffered lots because I believed the Pastor where i went.

Man kind finds it very hard to live by Faith and just trusting the LORD . Many Want to live by Sight ,It the way of this world. They operate there churches more like a business than for the LORD JESUS CHRIST Glory and honor.

Rather be like these Saints suffering ,than having everything of life.

Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


This How we better deal with others.
Mat_25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

How we treat the least in His true church and body ? Is how we care about JESUS. I think it serious.

 

[Mikeangelo7]

The poem makes us aware that there are wolves in sheeps clothing out there. Even the elect are deceived by these false teachers, so that would mean new believers would easily fall prey to this deception.
Although we should not judge others, it's a good thing to be aware and avoid people who do not preach or teach sound doctrine, and we are also to test the spirits to see if it of God. If one is not spiritually mature or if one is spiritually lost, they can become entangled into false teachings, prophecies, miracles, etc...

 

[Ophel]

So perhaps you are being foolish while brother shai is attempting to exhort these pharasees to repent and warn their new followers of their pocket lining motives?

And how are you correcting brother shai when he is not involved in the thread? Gossip 101

It is the foolish who do not receive correction.

The correction I offer here is to those readers who swallow his pompous bilge.

 

[sintheticg]

It is the foolish who do not receive correction.

The correction I offer here is to those readers who swallow his pompous bilge.

no one is pompous here, now will you receive the correction that those "teachers" listed are of the devil?

(2 Peter 2:1-3) "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. {2} And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. {3} And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."

(Matthew 7:15-20) "¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. {16} Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? {17} Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. {18} A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. {19} Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. {20} Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

(Matthew 24:11-13) " And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. {12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. {13} But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

(Matthew 24:24-26) " For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. {25} Behold, I have told you before. {26} Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."


(1 John 4:1-3) "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. {2} Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: {3} And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

(Matthew 21:12-13) "¶And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, {13} And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

 

[Ophel]

no one is pompous here, now will you receive the correction that those "teachers" listed are of the devil?

(2 Peter 2:1-3) "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. {2} And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. {3} And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not."

(Matthew 7:15-20) "¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. {16} Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? {17} Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. {18} A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. {19} Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. {20} Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

(Matthew 24:11-13) " And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. {12} And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. {13} But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

(Matthew 24:24-26) " For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. {25} Behold, I have told you before. {26} Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."


(1 John 4:1-3) "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. {2} Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: {3} And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

(Matthew 21:12-13) "¶And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, {13} And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Yes, he is pompous and wrong about many of the people he libels. I don't need correction about how I receive other believers. God shows me who is false and who is true, We don;t need other people to do that for us---it is self-aggrandizing behaviour to make such vile pronouncements in the guise of spiritual music. What on earth is fueling him? Self importance? Money? Attention?

 

[sintheticg]

Yes, he is pompous and wrong about many of the people he libels. I don't need correction about how I receive other believers. God shows me who is false and who is true, We don;t need other people to do that for us---it is self-aggrandizing behaviour to make such vile pronouncements in the guise of spiritual music. What on earth is fueling him? Self importance? Money? Attention?

if you watched his explanation rather than getting upset because you've accepted joyce meyers as a godly teacher (even though she cannot be a pastor according to the bible,) you'd see his "fuel" was to warn new believers in Africa not to fall for the gospel of prosperity that has taken hold in the US.

and all of his other music is gospel centered and packed with theology, i'd say he's qualified.

 

[Ophel]

if you watched his explanation rather than getting upset because you've accepted joyce meyers as a godly teacher (even though she cannot be a pastor according to the bible,) you'd see his "fuel" was to warn new believers in Africa not to fall for the gospel of prosperity that has taken hold in the US.

and all of his other music is gospel centered and packed with theology, i'd say he's qualified.

I've dealt with this topic and this fellow before. His explanation sounds good on the surface, but of course, he is wrong about some of the people he is lumping together as supposed false teachers. So, if he is wrong about some, he could be wrong about any others or all. It is bad form---bad, bad form, and anyone who is sensitive to Holy Spirit would immediately toss aside this nonsense of calling people out. So he disagrees with some people's beliefs? So what? We all disagree in some area. It doesn't make them false. In fact, what it shows me is that he himself is lacking in some knowledge and experience of the Lord Jesus Christ. He obviously hasn't grown to the point of some of the understandings others have. He needs to give the world a few turns before he spouts out judgment against people who know Jesus Christ. He is not the keeper of all truth.

I have ZERO respect for people who do this. To me it is evil speech.

 

[farout]

The poem makes us aware that there are wolves in sheeps clothing out there. Even the elect are deceived by these false teachers, so that would mean new believers would easily fall prey to this deception.
Although we should not judge others, it's a good thing to be aware and avoid people who do not preach or teach sound doctrine, and we are also to test the spirits to see if it of God. If one is not spiritually mature or if one is spiritually lost, they can become entangled into false teachings, prophecies, miracles, etc...

The issue of judging others has swung too far the wrong way. Jesus said we were to beware of the Pharisees, how can we beware unless we make some kind of judgement on that person ? How are we to come to a conclusion about someone's true actions, only by making a judgement. Jesus said we would know them by their fruit (spiritually) they produce. That too requires to make a judgement. Jesus was saying not to condemn, but the show Jesus in us by out testimony, and the love we show others. Does not mean we can not call a person who is a false teacher / preacher, who is not following the commands of our Master and Lord, Jesus Christ ? We do not have to be around someone too long to find out if someone is follower, and surrendered to Jesus Christ.

Without mentioning names, there are several on that poems list, that does not require a M.Div. degree to know they are Pharisees ! When we see a person in ministry that lives in lavish luxury, and parades their fine clothe's and sparkling jewelry for all to see from the pulpit, that's not followering Jesus. Some of those mentioned in the poem, have their own jet aircraft, several homes, and a habitual bellow for more too send in more seed faith money. That seed faith money is a camouflage, used under the pretense to further to gospel. But in reality seed faith money, is a deception in order to keep their lavish living alive and well. That friends is a false teacher / preacher.

 

[Fenn]

I think the song has merit to some degree. I also think the song does the author some disservice. I don't believe a song is a place to be calling people out. I would like to know the reasoning for his calling these speakers out; each one specifically. I don't think having too much money is enough to call someone out as a false teacher. If there is a Biblical response to that I will certainly change my view. However, if someone is preaching/ teaching doctrinally unsound material, then call them out and point out each thing that is incorrect. Otherwise it does not really edify the body of Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

Mat_7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Luk_6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Joh_7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

And yet we ARE to judge those in the church. There are conditions.
First don't be a hypocrite. Don't judge someone else for doing what you yourself are doing.
Matt 23:23; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
Matt 23:25; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.
Matt 23:27; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Second make sure you can see clearly what is going on. We are often blinded by our own sin.
Matt 7:3; "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Matt 7:4; "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
Matt 7:5; "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Then we can judge others in the church.
John 7:24; "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."
1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 11:13; Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
1 Cor 11:29; For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
1 Cor 5:3; For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.
1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
2 Thes 3:14; If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame.

We are told to judge the behavior of others, to even put them out of the church if necessary.
Matt 18:15; "If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
Matt 18:16; "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.
Matt 18:17; "If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Timothy and Titus have a list of requirements for elders, it says they are to be tested. ( 1 Tim 3:10; ) Obviously the members of the church will have to judge that test to see if they pass or fail.
Anyone who says we aren't supposed to keep others in the church accountable doesn't know the Bible. It even says to rebuke those who are sinning in the church.
1 Tim 5:20; Those who continue in sin, rebuke in the presence of all, so that the rest also will be fearful of sinning.
2 Tim 4:2; preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.

 

[james1523]

The issue of judging others has swung too far the wrong way. Jesus said we were to beware of the Pharisees, how can we beware unless we make some kind of judgement on that person ? How are we to come to a conclusion about someone's true actions, only by making a judgement. Jesus said we would know them by their fruit (spiritually) they produce. That too requires to make a judgement. Jesus was saying not to condemn, but the show Jesus in us by out testimony, and the love we show others. Does not mean we can not call a person who is a false teacher / preacher, who is not following the commands of our Master and Lord, Jesus Christ ? We do not have to be around someone too long to find out if someone is follower, and surrendered to Jesus Christ.

Without mentioning names, there are several on that poems list, that does not require a M.Div. degree to know they are Pharisees ! When we see a person in ministry that lives in lavish luxury, and parades their fine clothe's and sparkling jewelry for all to see from the pulpit, that's not followering Jesus. Some of those mentioned in the poem, have their own jet aircraft, several homes, and a habitual bellow for more too send in more seed faith money. That seed faith money is a camouflage, used under the pretense to further to gospel. But in reality seed faith money, is a deception in order to keep their lavish living alive and well. That friends is a false teacher / preacher.

Yes we don't even have to know the doctrine, we just see the lifestyle to know.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

I ask only one question When was the last time you led some one to Christ with the same passion as you're correction of a minister of God ? Only He knows who he has called and is fully able to hold accountable as wrong or right , if the message of the minister offends than dust the dust of you're feet and move on..... We should never hold a supposed false minister before men but hold them up to God God for correction ....Rev