False teachers

[Victor Van Heerden]

You know nothing and are beginning to remind me of a box of cereal.

Are these preachers ( Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen and co.) not the richest preachers around? How did they get rich?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Are these preachers ( Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen and co.) not the richest preachers around? How did they get rich?

I've heard their names mentioned many times. You may be on to something; with that said,
I would seek to add another category besides just their wealth. Remember Job was very wealthy
and God blessed him with great wealth as He was a generous man and give to many.

Therefore simply looking at the wealth of someone who professes to be a follower of God is not enough to hold
them suspect before the body of Christ, I would inquire about their giving, and their lifestyle. Some have millions
and use that to set up foundations and hospitals, Christian schools, etc, etc.

I'm not defending anyone of the names you've listed, just throwing out a point of consideration.

 

[KingJ]

Excellent point. But then why do some Christians say that atheists hate God - they don,t obey Him because they don,t believe in him. Therefore they cannot obey Him. Can they - even if they wanted to. You can only disobey someone you know. Atheist don,t know God. So how can they obey or hate Him? Jesus said

John 14:21 “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

That is like saying a pedophile who doesn't believe innocent kids exist can't be accused of pedophilia.

We are accountable to God and for our sin because of our working brains / intelligence. An atheist loves God when he obeys the commandments that would fulfill the second commandment of ''love thy neighbor as yourself''. Feeding hungry, helping orphans and widows. Good people run into Jesus James 4:8. God pays them a visit 1 Cor 12:3. Once God pays someone a visit, they are given a measure of faith Rom 12:3 and become a Christian. They then better grasp the first commandment.

James 1:27 Religion un-defiled is to look after orphans and widows in need. Rom 12:9 Genuine love is to hate what is wicked and cling to what is good. An atheist can fulfill both these verses.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

I've heard their names mentioned many times. You may be on to something; with that said,
I would seek to add another category besides just their wealth. Remember Job was very wealthy
and God blessed him with great wealth as He was a generous man and give to many.

Therefore simply looking at the wealth of someone who professes to be a follower of God is not enough to hold
them suspect before the body of Christ, I would inquire about their giving, and their lifestyle. Some have millions
and use that to set up foundations and hospitals, Christian schools, etc, etc.

I'm not defending anyone of the names you've listed, just throwing out a point of consideration.

ow did they make their wealth? Easypeasy - from the Gospel Of Jesus Christ! Not good Christians - Jesus told His disciples to give all to the needy and follow him. These guys are NOT Christians but charltons.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

How did they make their wealth? Easypeasy - from the Gospel Of Jesus Christ! Not good Christians - Jesus told His disciples to give all to the needy and follow him. These guys are NOT Christians but charltons.[/QUOTE]

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

That is like saying a pedophile who doesn't believe innocent kids exist can't be accused of pedophilia.

False equivalence. Pedophiles know. Atheists need faith. Without faith it is impossible to:
A. Believe in God
B. Please God.
C. Know God

Hebrews 11:6-8
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.



Atheists don't have enough faith to believe He exists so they cannot willingly or unwillingly obey him. If they did have faith they would not identify as atheists.

A pedophile is one because he knows kids physically exist.
An atheist is one because he does not believe God exists. He requires corroborated objective evidence. Jesus said God is a Spirit ( not a physical being).

 

[Christ4Ever]

An atheist is one because he does not believe God exists. He requires corroborated objective evidence. Jesus said God is a Spirit ( not a physical being).

Hello Victor
So, you believe in Jesus, but as what? A dead philosopher, good teacher, but not necessarily as He views Himself?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

P.S. Sorry for moving away from the subject of the thread folks.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Yep - It is The Gospel Of Jesus Christ according to the Apostle Paul. You need to learn how to spell.

So don't call it Paul's Gospel

Spell What?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Are these preachers ( Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen and co.) not the richest preachers around? How did they get rich?

That's my point. You , yourself do not know but go by what you hear and read.

However I do for several of them.

 

[Quantrill]

Why would someone hate God? Does not compute. And a false teacher in the New Testament is anyone WHO does not preach the Gospel of Paul. Forget about the OT. Its all done dusted and assigned to the history bin. The NT supersedes the OT by far. Its Paul's gospel or you face hell fire and brimstone in hell - not a nice place to be.

Gal1:8 " But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be [a]accursed."

" It is usually to gain a following and money. "


That would mean people like Benny Hinn, Ken Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joseph Prince, Joel Osteen and co. are FALSE TEACHERS. Of which i am in perfect agreement.

Your view of the Old Testament is very warped. It is the Word of God and is not assigned to the history bin. We have much to learn from it. The New Testament does not supersede the Old Testament. Both are the Word of God.

I am not naming the names you have. The false teachers motives will be seen in doctrine and their actions. Jim Jones and David Koresh were two who were. And their end proved it. Because I disagree with a doctrine doesn't mean it is a false teaching. It will usually involve some serious wrong thinking about the Person of Jesus Christ, and the Word of God. In fact your view of the Old Testament is a red flag.

Quantrill

 

[KingJ]

False equivalence. Pedophiles know. Atheists need faith.

It is not. Pedophiles want to believe kids are not innocent. Atheists want to believe there is no God. All the evidence points to kids being innocent. There was a time in the desert where God spared all under the age of twenty from His wrath. Then with atheism, all the evidence around us points to intelligent design. Paul is clear on that in Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.

Without faith it is impossible to:
A. Believe in God
B. Please God.
C. Know God

Hebrews 11:6-8
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Read Rom 1:20 properly. ''The invisible things from Him are clearly seen''. ''Being understood by the things that are made''.

God's goodness is in this world. A belief in God is mutually inclusive with good deeds.

Atheists don't have enough faith to believe He exists so they cannot willingly or unwillingly obey him. If they did have faith they would not identify as atheists.

Bad atheists don't have faith. God atheists are simply in denial :smile:.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Pedophiles want to believe kids are not innocent. Atheists want to believe there is no God.

You assume.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Your view of the Old Testament is very warped

What about NEW COVENANT are we NOT understanding? Or do you think our Lord Jesus died in vain.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

That's my point. You , yourself do not know but go by what you hear and read.

Common sense. If they spend their whole life preaching the gospel that is HOW they got rich. From tithes and offerings?

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

The invisible things from Him are clearly seen''. ''Being understood by the things that are made''.

Nope. Paul wrote that prescience when every one must have thought God was involved in making things happen. Like rain falling, wind, storms, earth quakes, volcanoes erupting, etc Which means there were probably very very few genuine atheists in his time. Today is different. Or do you think that we must still think like they did 2000 years ago?

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Bad atheists don't have faith. God atheists are simply in denia

Now you sound like Jordan Peterson who thinks moral atheists are closet Christians. There are no good and bad atheists. It is just a label given to people who do NOT believe in God. But we should ignore labels and look at people. Because you get good and bad people.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

The false teachers motives will be seen in doctrine and their actions.

Blowing 100 of millions of Dollars in jets and mansions and holidays from tithes and offerings given to God by sincere followers does not set up a RED FLAG because of their extravagant actions. Really! And preaching the obvious heresy of "prosperity and positive thinking, name it and claim it gospel" is not a FALSE gospel. Are you one that has been fleeced that you protect them because you erroneously think that they are anointed of God.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Hello Victor
So, you believe in Jesus, but as what? A dead philosopher, good teacher, but not necessarily as He views Himself?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

P.S. Sorry for moving away from the subject of the thread folks.

Jesus is the Son of God and one with the Trinity of Father/Son/Holy Spirit. He is our Lord and Saviour, King of Kings and Lord of Lords and at His feet shall every one bow. I mentioned what Jesus said about God.
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit:

 

[Quantrill]

What about NEW COVENANT are we NOT understanding? Or do you think our Lord Jesus died in vain.

Good question. Have you considered it? The New Covenant is very much part of the Abrahamic Covenant. This Covenant was established in (Gen. 12:1-2) The New Covenant is new in relation to the Mosaic Covenant. In relation to the Abrahamic Covenant it is the continual outworking of it. Which is still in the process of being fulfilled. Thus you see that Old Testament is not just confined to the dusty area of history. Both Old and New Testament are the Word of God.

Why would I ever think that?

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Blowing 100 of millions of Dollars in jets and mansions and holidays from tithes and offerings given to God by sincere followers does not set up a RED FLAG because of their extravagant actions. Really! And preaching the obvious heresy of "prosperity and positive thinking, name it and claim it gospel" is not a FALSE gospel. Are you one that has been fleeced that you protect them because you erroneously think that they are anointed of God.

I am not quick to label one a false teacher. Wealth is not the deciding factor for a false teacher. Just because one is wealthy doesn't make them a false teacher. One can be a false teacher who has the motive for wealth and a following, and be unsuccessful and poor. He is still a false teacher due to his motive.

There are Biblical truths born out by the 'name it and claim it' crowd. Though I believe they do go overboard. And there are some Biblical truths born out in the 'prosperity and positive thinking' crowd. But they too go a little far for me. Is that a false teaching? I don't think so. I just don't think it is the whole truth. That doesn't mean some of those mentioned may not be false teachers. They may. I don't know all of them. Your false teaching will most always center on the Person of Jesus Christ. Is He God and Man? The God/Man. Both human and divine. Not a man indwelt by the Spirit of God, but God with a Human Body.

You sound very bitter.

Quantrill