False teachers

[KingJ]

Now you sound like Jordan Peterson who thinks moral atheists are closet Christians. There are no good and bad atheists. It is just a label given to people who do NOT believe in God. But we should ignore labels and look at people. Because you get good and bad people.

I would like to properly discuss this with you. I will start a new thread and link it here.

 

[KingJ]

Nope. Paul wrote that prescience when every one must have thought God was involved in making things happen. Like rain falling, wind, storms, earth quakes, volcanoes erupting, etc Which means there were probably very very few genuine atheists in his time. ?

Not sure why you think 2000 years is a long time ago.

You are 60 years old. You have shared your knowledge with your parents, grandparents, children and grand children. Five generations have shared knowledge. Working on a life expectancy of 70 years, that equates to verbally shared information over 350 years. Paul's message had to be passed on by parent to child 28 times (2000 / 7), from grandparent to grandchild 6 times (2000 / 350).

If you ask me, 2000 years is very short. Especially considering God wants as many people in heaven as possible. It is crystal clear that He has gone through a lot of effort with the cross, creating us, the earth and all within it.

Today is different. Or do you think that we must still think like they did 2000 years ago

Moral laws should never change. With regards to science, the more we advance the more we should grasp intelligent design. Atheism probably held more water 2000 years ago.

 

[B-A-C]

Nope. Paul wrote that prescience when every one must have thought God was involved in making things happen. Like rain falling, wind, storms, earth quakes, volcanoes erupting, etc Which means there were probably very very few genuine atheists in his time. Today is different. Or do you think that we must still think like they did 2000 years ago?

Paul was writing that because people DIDN'T think God was the one doing it. I'm not sure about Atheists, but certainly you can take a look at Roman and Greek mythology and
see they had many many gods. Likely most were Pagans. WE are free to think whatever we want, but God Himself does not change.

Heb 13:8; Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Mal 3:6; "For I, the LORD, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Jas 1:17; Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.

Society may change, but God and His values do not.

False teachers try to say God changes. But He never does.

 

[KingJ]

(2000 / 7), from grandparent to grandchild 6 times (2000 / 350).

Math fail here :smile:.

It would be the full age of the grandparent and grandchild, 70 + 70 = 140. 2000 / 140 = 14.

14 times not 6.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Common sense. If they spend their whole life preaching the gospel that is HOW they got rich. From tithes and offerings?

Here comes that cereal again.
You could not be more wrong.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Jesus is the Son of God and one with the Trinity of Father/Son/Holy Spirit. He is our Lord and Saviour, King of Kings and Lord of Lords and at His feet shall every one bow. I mentioned what Jesus said about God.
John 4:24
24 God is a Spirit:

Hello Victor,
I understand that you have mentioned what Jesus said about God, but who do "YOU" believe Jesus to be?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Hello Victor,
I understand that you have mentioned what Jesus said about God, but who do "YOU" believe Jesus to be?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
<><

The Christ/Son of God. My saviour and redeemer and friend that is closer than a brother and will never ever leave me.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

False teachers try to say God changes. But He never does.

Yep - God never changes but our knowledge of the world does. In Paul's time he though the cosmos was like this. https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https://weseeasthroughaglassdarkly.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/babyloniancosmologybiblke9.jpg&f=1

No one believes that way anymore do they? We know better.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Not sure why you think 2000 years is a long time ago.

Dumb on purpose are we? Knowledge doubles every ten years. We know a lot more now than then. I,m not sixty but late sixties and i know probably a hundred times more than my parents and my kids if they were awake during their education that i paid for should know a hundred times more than me. Get the drift.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

I would like to properly discuss this with you. I will start a new thread and link it here.

okay. Let me know.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Moral laws should never change

But they do. In the OT Bible if children wanted to live long they obeyed their parents. Their parents were allowed to take them out for disobedience. Ex20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. Do some research in the background to this Commandment one of the Ten given to Moses by God. Who kills their children today for disobedience? And this Commandment that Jesus broke and the Pharisee went berserk. Because it was one of Ten moral Commandments given by God " 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. " This is the main Commandment Jesus is often found breaking in the Gospels and the reason the religious Jews felt Jesus must die. Cut your grass on the SABBATH or even lift your finger to press a push-button on a lift to go to the ground floor and you are in serious trouble. I saw it in Jerusalem where every hotel has special sabbath lifts for the pious Jew that stop on every floor automatically on Saturdays.

 

[KingJ]

Dumb on purpose are we? Knowledge doubles every ten years. We know a lot more now than then. I,m not sixty but late sixties and i know probably a hundred times more than my parents and my kids if they were awake during their education that i paid for should know a hundred times more than me. Get the drift.

You assume the people 2000 years ago were dumb? Just because technology we have today did not exist then does not mean they were dumb. Knowledge can double every second, it does not make you smarter.

 

[KingJ]

But they do. In the OT Bible if children wanted to live long they obeyed their parents. Their parents were allowed to take them out for disobedience. Ex20:12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you. Do some research in the background to this Commandment one of the Ten given to Moses by God. Who kills their children today for disobedience? And this Commandment that Jesus broke and the Pharisee went berserk. Because it was one of Ten moral Commandments given by God " 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. " This is the main Commandment Jesus is often found breaking in the Gospels and the reason the religious Jews felt Jesus must die. Cut your grass on the SABBATH or even lift your finger to press a push-button on a lift to go to the ground floor and you are in serious trouble. I saw it in Jerusalem where every hotel has special sabbath lifts for the pious Jew that stop on every floor automatically on Saturdays.

Child disobedience had to be an extremity. A panel of elders would oversee and judge all accusations. The Sabbath was a day that was special to a Jew and God. It was to pay respect for the time God helped them escape Egypt. Dis-respecting it showed a depth of rebellion to God. Today it could probably be linked to something like a Christian burning a bible. When Jonah preached to Nineveh, there was no ''stoning to death enforced'' or ''Sabbath rules''. Jonah just told them to repent as their sins were grievous and provoking God's wrath. Much like Sodom.

Ever since Adam and Eve sinned mankind has had a moral compass / a knowledge of good and evil Gen 3:22, just as God and the angels do.

Rape has been wrong from day 1. Murder from day 1. Cain didn't need the ten commandments to know what he did was wrong.

You need to understand Jewish specific context when quoting the OT. God made an example of the Jews. They bore the full curse of the law for wickedness as well as its full blessing obedience.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Child disobedience had to be an extremity

Not the point. Were they put to death or not? For rebelling against their parents.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

You assume the people 2000 years ago were dumb?

Not dumb as in the same neural passages and transmitters as us. But in content. Like the latest computer with an operating system and programmes from the eighties. Rubbish in - rubbish out. People in that time were very superstitious and totally ignorant of the world around them etc.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Knowledge can double every second, it does not make you smarter.

How smart were people that thought schizophrenia and other common mental disorders was demon possession? Who thought the earth was flat. Who believed in magic. Bring anyone in a time machine from 200 years ago let alone 2000 to today and see how they will be in awe of modern achievements and knowledge. Or would you prefer to take your kids to a witch doctor so he can make magic/muti to heal them? Maybe you should join the Amish who are soo smart that they shun all modern inventions and comforts. They think that electricity, wireless radios, TV, cell phones, PC,s etc and motor cars, tractors, combine harvesters etc are of the devil. Stupid - i know.

 

[KingJ]

Not the point. Were they put to death or not? For rebelling against their parents.

But it is the point.

When you judge a crime like stealing. There are levels of punishment dependent on what is stolen. If we consider the differing punishments for crimes in the OT you will see that only the worst of the worst warranted death by stoning or burnt at a stake. Lessor crimes resulted in warnings, excommunication and eye for an eye compensation. Meaning if a crowd gathered around to stone to death a child, this child had to have been disobedient at one hell of an extremity. A panel of elders was appointed to oversee. There was a judicial system. It was not anarchy and ridiculous accusations. But I won't argue that it was extreme.

 

[KingJ]

How smart were people that thought schizophrenia and other common mental disorders was demon possession? Who thought the earth was flat. Who believed in magic. Bring anyone in a time machine from 200 years ago let alone 2000 to today and see how they will be in awe of modern achievements and knowledge. Or would you prefer to take your kids to a witch doctor so he can make magic/muti to heal them? Maybe you should join the Amish who are soo smart that they shun all modern inventions and comforts. They think that electricity, wireless radios, TV, cell phones, PC,s etc and motor cars, tractors, combine harvesters etc are of the devil. Stupid - i know.

You need to re-read my post 42 you are going off track.

 

[Christ4Ever]

They think that electricity, wireless radios, TV, cell phones, PC,s etc and motor cars, tractors, combine harvesters etc are of the devil. Stupid - i know.

Hello Victor,
You need to research this a little better. It's not as black and white as your comment has made it to appear and does a disservice to them and the lives they live. They are no better or worse than the rest of humanity, except like us they are Christ believing Christians. For they believe that the items you speak of moves them away from living their lives for Christ. Careful how you speak of our brethren brother.

We know what they are willing to give up, but the question we need to ask ourselves is "What are we willing to give up for Christ?"

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Hello Victor,
You need to research this a little better. It's not as black and white as your comment has made it to appear and does a disservice to them and the lives they live. They are no better or worse than the rest of humanity, except like us they are Christ believing Christians. For they believe that the items you speak of moves them away from living their lives for Christ. Careful how you speak of our brethren brother.

We know what they are willing to give up, but the question we need to ask ourselves is "What are we willing to give up for Christ?"

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

I hear you but i think you cannot live like that and remain credible or relevant. Why cut yourself off from the rest of the world that you need to influence in a positive way for Christ and even criticise modern conveniences that are beneficial to all mankind.