Female Preaching

[B-A-C]

I am a local preacher in the (English) Methodist church and believe my calling is to help our minister

I am not exactly sure of the difference between a minister and a preacher in this context?
Also, out of curiosity, is it a United Methodist church?

 

[spirit1st]

Listen Few on this planet will even hear GOD. Even less will obey HIM.
Anyone who will Hear and Obey Him He will use. Man , woman or even child.

God has used women all though the bible.

The Child of God is the Spirit being, not the flesh being. The Driver of the car is the Important part. Not the car. Yes some cars are made weaker and cannot do certain things normally and need help? But again? We can all do all things though JESUS CHRIST.

Thinking the carnal things are more important is not the Right thinking.

Listen I just naturally Do not like women pushing me around. But if I know She led by the Holy Ghost ?Then I welcome it gladly.

The Spiritual of God is Greater than the fleshly of Mankind.

Our Spirit being is a true Heavenly being . a Joint heir with JESUS CHRIST. Much greater than this weak short term flesh WE dwell in.

2Co_3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.


God put the burden on us in the flesh . Too look after the female. But in the Spirit ? We are No different in GOD EYES.

If He calls them and makes them One of the Elect ? Then HE can use them any way He wants too.


Act 10:15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
God can set a woman aside and use Her for whatever He wants to?

In the Flesh ? HE Does Not want them LORDING over man. But in the Spirit being? They are just as equal as any men here !
They can do everything God says any of us can.
They can raise the dead ,heal the sick ,cast out satan himself and much more.

They too can do greater works than our LORD JESUS .

Tit_2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

So we do see they can teach . The disagreement is Where and to what degree ,can God use them?

I have listened to lots of females preach. I like it mostly? They seem to see different things ,us men do not always see?

But I normally do not go too church for the preaching. Mainly the Worshiping and be able to bless others.
I mostly get my teachings from the HOLY GHOST not mankind.


We are All called to be ministers. The question is ? Can GOD call anyone to minister in any way or must He only use certain people in certain ways? How much is God bound?

 

[spirit1st]

This just for Paul ? or for the whole body of Christ Jesus?

1Co_6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co_10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

Jas_1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jas_2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

We Can all preach the gospel of JESUS CHRIST that for sure.

This is our LORD Gospel and only way to Salvation.
We All must believe this to get eternal life. And a Relationship forever more.

1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Victor9509]

I think women and man should be able to become pastures because in the bible when God talks about men he also talks about women:shade:
spirt -(we all must believe this to get eternal life) don't forget that faith without love is nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:2 And if I have prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith so that I can remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

 

[B-A-C]

1Co_6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
1Co_10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.

I am curious, do you know what the phrase "all things are not expedient" means?
I usually don't use the NLT, but in this case it might help.
1 Cor 6:12; You say, "I am allowed to do anything"—but not everything is good for you. And even though "I am allowed to do anything," I must not become a slave to anything.
1 Cor 10:23; You say, "I am allowed to do anything"—but not everything is good for you. You say, "I am allowed to do anything"—but not everything is beneficial.
1 Cor 10:24; Don't be concerned for your own good but for the good of others.

 

[jean]

I'm not sure what a 'United Methodist Church' is, sorry! We only (as far as I'm aware) have 'the Methodist Church in UK, I think it states somewhere in standing orders or on the Methodist website (lots of info there) that the church agreed sometime in the 1900's to reconcile and become one unit, I know that previously there were, Primitive Methodists (whatever they were!) and Wesley Methodists....and probably others but to me being a Christian belonging to a Methodist church is enough!

As for women/female preachers, I think we need to be very cautious about being too 'legalistic' but on the other hand we shouldn't become to open so that all and any preaching is taught (and perhaps believed) in the church. Quoting texts from the bible is not altogether helpful as it is quite evident that people can be put off Christianity and church by what are considered 'flippant' remarks taken out of context, we may know what they mean but others may not!
If only all male leadership was compassionate, wholesome and without fault! Sadly it is not and many women have been put off church by male leadership. Ok that may be because of personal problems the women have but to say categorically that no women should preach to me, is a sweeping statement and It makes me wonder. If Jesus (let alone the apostle Paul) were alive in the 21st century, would they reject outright all female preachers? Didn't Jesus himself lift women to equality with men and by having Mary Magdalene and other female followers He showed compassion and love to both sexes equally? Mary (M) sat at Jesus feet, according to Jewish tradition, this was a place reserved for the Rabbi's disciples I was taught!
However, this 'argument' or debate could go on and on but to the outside world and those not of the faith we need to disagree with grace and respect each other as brothers and sisters In Christ do we not?
The Anglican church in England has what I think is a very good policy, if a male or female priest won't work with the other (pray for them ) but seriously....the church tries to place suitable candidates together so that they can work for the good of the church. Tradition is good but we have to be open to our culture. There is a shortage of ministers at present and in our circuit and in the coming year we are seeing big changes so our team of local preachers will be even busier. We are not allowed to baptise, marry people, hold Holy Communion or 'do' funerals at present, but that could change. At present I personally have assisted the minister with funerals and Holy Communion.

 

[jean]

Sorry I think I've replied in the 'wrong' place!

 

[jean]

Can I ask a question to those who totally oppose female priests or preachers? Would you allow gay priests/ministers? Or is this another subject somewhere? Thanks

 

[Fenn]

Probably the wrong comparisons for your argument... but...

As the natural women is to receive the seed of the man to bear natural children, so is the spiritual woman to receive the spiritual seed of man to bear spiritual children. Consider in this Paul's written words:

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, thereis neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:28

There is a male role and a female role. In the Church, the male is the presenter of the Word (the seed via the preacher or testifier, etc.) and the female is the Church that listens "silently" and receives. Any natural man or natural women who silently listens and receives is the spiritual woman. Any natural man or natural woman who presents the Word is the spiritual man. Jesus was the Man and all of the listeners were the Woman. Jesus is the Head while the Church is theBody (of Christ).

Mary the natural mother of Jesus fits into this pattern as well. God is the Father and Mary is the Mother. The offspring are of the kind that we are intended to have... God is the perfect Father. Mary is human, but unspoiled by a flawed man.

In the "real"world of churches, the preacher when he is presenting the Word is the as theFather, but actually, as we know, he misses the mark many times in many places. But... the same is true of the Woman who is supposed to listen and receive silently, but actually is too often not silent and is critical even when the Preacher is not missing it. Error on both parts but an ideal pattern exists ifwe are able to see it and to replicate it.

1 Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


-----

This scripture very clearly shows that men and women are not the same. We are all equally saved, but we have different roles. Did they not have specific instructions for both slave and master in the Bible? Thus, both can be saved and have equal standing in the body of Christ, but both are not called to the same jobs.

 

[Fenn]

Can I ask a question to those who totally oppose female priests or preachers? Would you allow gay priests/ministers? Or is this another subject somewhere? Thanks

Probably a completely separate topic. For me the answer is no. I would not allow it. If you would like reasoning, then feel free to open up another topic.

 

[Fenn]

As for women/female preachers, I think we need to be very cautious about being too 'legalistic' but on the other hand we shouldn't become to open so that all and any preaching is taught (and perhaps believed) in the church. Quoting texts from the bible is not altogether helpful as it is quite evident that people can be put off Christianity and church by what are considered 'flippant' remarks taken out of context, we may know what they mean but others may not!

So, if the Bible becomes too legalistic for us, then we should ignore it? The words are very clear in 1 Timothy.

If only all male leadership was compassionate, wholesome and without fault! Sadly it is not and many women have been put off church by male leadership. Ok that may be because of personal problems the women have but to say categorically that no women should preach to me, is a sweeping statement and It makes me wonder. If Jesus (let alone the apostle Paul) were alive in the 21st century, would they reject outright all female preachers? Didn't Jesus himself lift women to equality with men and by having Mary Magdalene and other female followers He showed compassion and love to both sexes equally? Mary (M) sat at Jesus feet, according to Jewish tradition, this was a place reserved for the Rabbi's disciples I was taught!
However, this 'argument' or debate could go on and on but to the outside world and those not of the faith we need to disagree with grace and respect each other as brothers and sisters In Christ do we not?

Loving women equally is not the same as giving them the same job as males. We were created to fill different roles. God wants us to fulfill those roles.

The Anglican church in England has what I think is a very good policy, if a male or female priest won't work with the other (pray for them ) but seriously....the church tries to place suitable candidates together so that they can work for the good of the church. Tradition is good but we have to be open to our culture. There is a shortage of ministers at present and in our circuit and in the coming year we are seeing big changes so our team of local preachers will be even busier. We are not allowed to baptise, marry people, hold Holy Communion or 'do' funerals at present, but that could change. At present I personally have assisted the minister with funerals and Holy Communion.

Wow. There is a difference between tradition and instruction.

John 17
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

---
Clearly we are not to be of the world. Clearly we are to gauge things through His truth, through His word.

Romans 12

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

---
So, according to the Bible, God's word, we are not to be open to culture. We are called to be following God's will and we determine His will through the word and the Spirit. If the Spirit is contradicting the word, then it probably isn't the Spirit, but a spirit.

 

[spirit1st]

This is a hard subject. For sure when we see scriptures calling for women, mainly wives. Because that the main purpose of Most women. But we see all though scriptures there has been excepts to different scriptures?
We see Paul was called to not marry .
others have made them selves unable to have kids.
Women being Prophets in the old testament revealing things to men and others What the Lord says.

In the New testament all men and Women having the Spirit of Prophecy 100% ,All equal in the body. all of New Jerusalem now and Not of this world.

 

[Fenn]

This is a hard subject. For sure when we see scriptures calling for women, mainly wives. Because that the main purpose of Most women. But we see all though scriptures there has been excepts to different scriptures?
We see Paul was called to not marry .
others have made them selves unable to have kids.
Women being Prophets in the old testament revealing things to men and others What the Lord says.

In the New testament all men and Women having the Spirit of Prophecy 100% ,All equal in the body. all of New Jerusalem now and Not of this world.

If there is a conflict in scripture, or exception as you say, then there is probably a misunderstanding or the exception is listed.
The New Testament is what we are quoting from. Do you disagree that 1 Timothy is saying that women should not preach, or do you agree that is the meaning and you don't believe it should hold true today?

I don't know about the women have the Spirit of Prophesy 100%.
Look at 1 Corinthians 14 with the instructions on prophesy.
1 Corinthians 14
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.


Again are we interpreting these passages differently or do you not agree with the passages?

 

[jean]

Goodness and I have been called a fundamentalist Fenn you quote yet another scripture about women keeping quiet in church but asking their husbands at home! (sorry I can't copy and paste yet!)
What if a woman is married to an unbeliever? What if she can't ask a husband at home?

 

[spirit1st]

It Always the correct understanding that counts. Our carnal thinking does Not always give us the correct understanding. I admit many lean on there own understanding and do not come to the correct understanding.

Rev_19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The word of God is for Men and Women and children. It Not less for Women than men . Because we are All counted Equal in our Spirit man who is the child of God. The flesh is different and much much Less and Not eternal .

The Question becomes? can the Spirit of the person who is equal no matter what kind of weak dying flesh they are born into be used for GOD purposes or Not?

If we look at it carnally NO
If we look at it Spiritually YES.

God has a Perfect will and a Permissive will.
I do not think it God perfect will for women to teach . But in His permissive will They could.

I Do not think all these women preaching are called of God to preach . But i do believe God using some to Preach and teach and raise the dead and cast out devils and heal the sick. Certainly More than I have ever done.

How could they know so much and be so faithful and doing these works without His will in it?

And I know the scripture where some are going to say I done all this and He will say I never knew you.

but the ones I am speaking of are walking in the Power of the Holy Ghost and are taught by Him.

There has been some great women of God though the ages I am sure. Of course I believe He can use anyone any way.

It a Spiritual battle with Spiritual warriors Not men or women but Spiritual beings used by God for His purpose. It does not matter what kind of body they dwell in for the short time here.
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This is for all those New Creations , New Creatures . Because None are Men and Women.

. Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
They are Not Of this world.

Joh_17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh_17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Joh_17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Personally I have no problem listening to anyone who has spiritual trues. I love hearing truth. I could listen to a child or woman or of course a man.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Rom_8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
GOd calls all those who dwell in women type bodies and those who dwell in man type bodies or kids who dwell in little bodies all SONS of GOD 100% the Elect. His Kings and Priests Forever more.

It ok if you see it a bit different . I still Love you and thank God your here posting.





I am No more than you or anyone else in His true unseen church and Body .Just might see things a bit different? We are All equal in Him None greater or Less.

 

[Fenn]

Goodness and I have been called a fundamentalist Fenn you quote yet another scripture about women keeping quiet in church but asking their husbands at home! (sorry I can't copy and paste yet!)
What if a woman is married to an unbeliever? What if she can't ask a husband at home?

The forum rules mention backing everything up with scripture. I try to follow them and it usually leads to less confusion. I am sorry if you think I am a prude fundamentalist who just doesn't understand the society we live in. I don't believe the word of God changes because of society. We should be changing because of the word of God.

As to the woman who is married to an unbeliever.
Although, this is a completely separate topic.
2 Corinthians 6
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

She is already doing something that is advised against. Let us say that in the extreme she became a believer and her husband did not.

1) I would advise her of 1 Corinthians 7:12-14

12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

2) I would show them 1 Peter 3, this describes their position as women of God.

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:

6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement


3) This should be on display for her unbelieving husband
Galations 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.



4) There doesn't seem to be any precedence for a woman in this position seeking spiritual guidance from her husband. I would say to first and foremost consult God the Father. Then I would suggest trying to find a way to abide the guidelines and still get the help she needs. Possibly one way is to meet with the pastor and his wife to ask questions.

I don't see the jump from your situation, an extreme, to a situation that puts a woman at the head of a church.

 

[Chad]

Agreed with @Fenn's last post

Thanks for using abundant Scripture too.

 

[spirit1st]

Yep the First fruits of GOD Spirit is put within All those men and women Born of God perfect seed.

Rom_8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,

Rom_6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.


2Pe_1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Rom_8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[jean]

Thank you Fenn for clearing that up (regarding backing up statements with scripture) and I do hope I caused no offence by mentioning a fundamentalist, because I have been called one, it's all relative I suppose. I attend a Methodist church and have done for 12 years but I was baptised into the faith in a Charismatic Pentecostal church in South Africa 22 years ago.
I mentioned a woman asking her husband 'spiritual' stuff at home as you brought up the subject in your previous post and I am married to an unbeliever. Although we were both unbelievers when we married I became a born again, spirit filled believer after 22 years of married life which my husband found extremely difficult, but you or should I say, the bible is of course right. Divorce wasn't an option, but God's grace is amazing as he works out His purposes for each persons life.

We obviously must agree to differ on the point of women preachers but as indeed within marriage when a couple disagree, we still love each other, support each other and rely on God's grace to guide and keep us. Thank you for your replies and your biblical knowledge I appreciate it.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

As for women/female preachers, I think we need to be very cautious about being too 'legalistic' but on the other hand we shouldn't become to open so that all and any preaching is taught (and perhaps believed) in the church. Quoting texts from the bible is not altogether helpful as it is quite evident that people can be put off Christianity and church by what are considered 'flippant' remarks taken out of context, we may know what they mean but others may not!
If only all male leadership was compassionate, wholesome and without fault! Sadly it is not and many women have been put off church by male leadership. Ok that may be because of personal problems the women have but to say categorically that no women should preach to me, is a sweeping statement and It makes me wonder. If Jesus (let alone the apostle Paul) were alive in the 21st century, would they reject outright all female preachers? Didn't Jesus himself lift women to equality with men and by having Mary Magdalene and other female followers He showed compassion and love to both sexes equally? Mary (M) sat at Jesus feet, according to Jewish tradition, this was a place reserved for the Rabbi's disciples I was taught!
However, this 'argument' or debate could go on and on but to the outside world and those not of the faith we need to disagree with grace and respect each other as brothers and sisters In Christ do we not?

@jean @Fenn

Like brother Chad, I too am in agreement with Fenn and his previous posts.

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence
1 Timothy 2:11-12

As a woman, a wife, a mother I know that I am equally loved, equally saved, equally valued as a Christian.
And that in the Lord's perfect way, He has roles for men and roles for women

Women who take up preaching or pastorship roles are taking up feminism
The woman is denying the order of God as set out in the scriptures

Feminism is of the devil. It is the woman saying I want to be equal with man in the church in the same way that lucifer coveted equality with God and wanted to change the Lord's order.

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:14

A women is called to have a meek and quiet spirit.
This is not what she is displaying if she is standing at a pulpit or on a platform speaking, teaching or preaching.

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.
1 Peter 3:1-5

Even if male preaching is weak and ineffectual....it is not an excuse, a reason nor scriptural for a woman to step in

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and He is the Saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.Ephesians 5:22-24