Figure of speech/colloquialism?
- Thread starter rstrats
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Sue D.,
re: "well -- how about looking back at Completes #215."
See my reply to complete in #216.
re: " IF you really want those examples -- do your own research and share it with the rest of us."
Again, that's what I'm doing. This topic is directed to anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb, amd who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language. In order to legitimately assert that it was common usage they would have to know of actual examples which show instances of where a daytime or a night time was said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. I would simply like to see what examples they are using to make the assertion.
re: "well -- how about looking back at Completes #215."
See my reply to complete in #216.
re: " IF you really want those examples -- do your own research and share it with the rest of us."
Again, that's what I'm doing. This topic is directed to anyone who believes that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" refers to the tomb, amd who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language. In order to legitimately assert that it was common usage they would have to know of actual examples which show instances of where a daytime or a night time was said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. I would simply like to see what examples they are using to make the assertion.
Agree with me about what?
Gregoryp
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yes! Hundreds of words written about the christian holidays, in the meantime some lost sheep has come here to seek answers, and all they see is religous dogma and foolishness like arguing about holidays. This site sometimes behaves like an organised religous institution.
Gregoryp
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As i have stated previously, the enemy is busy at work getting christians to waste time on trivia, instead of worrying about the lost sheep. Someone who comes here seeking the gospel of Jesus Christ and the truth, instead gets a whole bunch of nothing. Seeds need to be planted in peoples souls, not trivia.
And again, that "someone new" needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.
complete
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'For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.'
(Mat 12:40) (see Jonah 1:17 & 2:1)
Hello @restrats,
'Three days and three nights' is a figure of speech called an 'idiom', it covers any parts of three days and three nights. The Lord's words do not disagree with the Scripture assertion that He should rise on, 'the third day'.
* You ask for examples:-
1) In 1 Samuel 30:11-12, it is said that a certain Egyptian had not eaten bread and drunk water for 'three days and three nihts', and yet it was only three days since he fell sick (v. 13), not four days.
2) In Ester 4:16, Esther says she and her maidens will fast 'three days and three nights,' and yet it was on 'the third day' that Esther went in to the King; not the fourth day, which it must have been if the expression were literally understood.
--------------------
The expression, 'after three days,' is found once in Matthew 27:63, and, 'in three days,' once in (John 2:19). But the common expression is, 'on the third day,' and it occurs 10 times. But if the expression be literal and not an idiom, all these passages should say the fourth day! Paul preached the resurrection on 'the third day' according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:4), and this is the great Scriptural fact which we cannot get away from.
Neither can we alter the fact that He rose on, 'the first day of the week'.
Neither can we alter the history which records His death and burial as taking place the day before the Sabbath. 'The sabbath drew on '(Luke 23:54; Matthew 27:62); 'The day before the sabbath' (Mark 15:42); and yet the two disciples going to Emmaus on the first day of the week say, 'This is the third day (not the fourth) since these things were done' (Luke 24:21).
From all this it is perfectly clear that nothing is to be gained by forcing the one passage (Matthew 12:40) to have a literal meaning; in the face of all these other passages which distinctly state that the Lord died and was buried the day before the Sabbath and rose the day after it, that is on the first day of the week. These many statements are literal and are history: but the one passage is an idiom which means any part of 'three days and three nights.' The one complete day and night (24 hrs) and the parts of two nights (36 hrs in all) fully satisfy both the idiom and the history.
* For the most part the New Testament is Hebrew in idiom, but Greek in language.
In English there is a similar usage, for when a person is sentenced to "'three days' imprisonment,", it may be late in the evening of the first day when he arrives at the prison, but when the doors open on the morning of the third day (not the fourth) he walks out a free man. In other words, if a person is committed to prison for three days - and he reaches it on Monday night - he leaves it the first thing on Wednesday morning.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
(Ref. 'Figures of Speech used in Scripture' by Dr E.W.Bullinger)
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.'
(Mat 12:40) (see Jonah 1:17 & 2:1)
Hello @restrats,
'Three days and three nights' is a figure of speech called an 'idiom', it covers any parts of three days and three nights. The Lord's words do not disagree with the Scripture assertion that He should rise on, 'the third day'.
* You ask for examples:-
1) In 1 Samuel 30:11-12, it is said that a certain Egyptian had not eaten bread and drunk water for 'three days and three nihts', and yet it was only three days since he fell sick (v. 13), not four days.
2) In Ester 4:16, Esther says she and her maidens will fast 'three days and three nights,' and yet it was on 'the third day' that Esther went in to the King; not the fourth day, which it must have been if the expression were literally understood.
--------------------
The expression, 'after three days,' is found once in Matthew 27:63, and, 'in three days,' once in (John 2:19). But the common expression is, 'on the third day,' and it occurs 10 times. But if the expression be literal and not an idiom, all these passages should say the fourth day! Paul preached the resurrection on 'the third day' according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:4), and this is the great Scriptural fact which we cannot get away from.
Neither can we alter the fact that He rose on, 'the first day of the week'.
Neither can we alter the history which records His death and burial as taking place the day before the Sabbath. 'The sabbath drew on '(Luke 23:54; Matthew 27:62); 'The day before the sabbath' (Mark 15:42); and yet the two disciples going to Emmaus on the first day of the week say, 'This is the third day (not the fourth) since these things were done' (Luke 24:21).
From all this it is perfectly clear that nothing is to be gained by forcing the one passage (Matthew 12:40) to have a literal meaning; in the face of all these other passages which distinctly state that the Lord died and was buried the day before the Sabbath and rose the day after it, that is on the first day of the week. These many statements are literal and are history: but the one passage is an idiom which means any part of 'three days and three nights.' The one complete day and night (24 hrs) and the parts of two nights (36 hrs in all) fully satisfy both the idiom and the history.
* For the most part the New Testament is Hebrew in idiom, but Greek in language.
In English there is a similar usage, for when a person is sentenced to "'three days' imprisonment,", it may be late in the evening of the first day when he arrives at the prison, but when the doors open on the morning of the third day (not the fourth) he walks out a free man. In other words, if a person is committed to prison for three days - and he reaches it on Monday night - he leaves it the first thing on Wednesday morning.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
(Ref. 'Figures of Speech used in Scripture' by Dr E.W.Bullinger)
complete,
re: "'Three days and three nights' is a figure of speech called an 'idiom', it covers any parts of three days and three nights."
If someone said that they would be doing something for one day and one night wouldn't you expect that at least a portion of a daytime and at least a portion of a night time would be involved?
re: "The expression, 'after three days,' is found once in Matthew 27:63..."
Mark 8:31 also says 'after three days'.
re: "The Lord's words do not disagree with the Scripture assertion that He should rise on, 'the third day'."
But Matthew 27:63, Mark 8:31, Matthew 12:40 and Luke 24:21 indicate a 4th day, so those verses which say on the third day must be referring to on the third day after the crucifixion. But again, that's an issue for a different topic.
re: "...and, 'in three days,' once in (John 2:19). But the common expression is, 'on the third day,' and it occurs 10 times. But if the expression be literal and not an idiom, all these passages should say the fourth day!"
See above.
re: "* You ask for examples:- 1) In 1 Samuel 30:11-12, it is said that a certain Egyptian had not eaten bread and drunk water for 'three days and three nights', and yet it was only three days since he fell sick (v. 13), not four days."
It's not an example since nothing in the account precludes at least a portion of each one of 3 daytimes and at least a portion of each one of 3 night times.
re: "2) In Ester 4:16, Esther says she and her maidens will fast 'three days and three nights,' and yet it was on 'the third day' that Esther went in to the King; not the fourth day, which it must have been if the expression were literally understood."
Most translations of the Esther account say "three days, night or day" and not "three days and three nights" which is not necessarily the same thing. But even if it is, that would only account for one example.
The rest of your post deals with issues for a different topic.
re: "'Three days and three nights' is a figure of speech called an 'idiom', it covers any parts of three days and three nights."
If someone said that they would be doing something for one day and one night wouldn't you expect that at least a portion of a daytime and at least a portion of a night time would be involved?
re: "The expression, 'after three days,' is found once in Matthew 27:63..."
Mark 8:31 also says 'after three days'.
re: "The Lord's words do not disagree with the Scripture assertion that He should rise on, 'the third day'."
But Matthew 27:63, Mark 8:31, Matthew 12:40 and Luke 24:21 indicate a 4th day, so those verses which say on the third day must be referring to on the third day after the crucifixion. But again, that's an issue for a different topic.
re: "...and, 'in three days,' once in (John 2:19). But the common expression is, 'on the third day,' and it occurs 10 times. But if the expression be literal and not an idiom, all these passages should say the fourth day!"
See above.
re: "* You ask for examples:- 1) In 1 Samuel 30:11-12, it is said that a certain Egyptian had not eaten bread and drunk water for 'three days and three nights', and yet it was only three days since he fell sick (v. 13), not four days."
It's not an example since nothing in the account precludes at least a portion of each one of 3 daytimes and at least a portion of each one of 3 night times.
re: "2) In Ester 4:16, Esther says she and her maidens will fast 'three days and three nights,' and yet it was on 'the third day' that Esther went in to the King; not the fourth day, which it must have been if the expression were literally understood."
Most translations of the Esther account say "three days, night or day" and not "three days and three nights" which is not necessarily the same thing. But even if it is, that would only account for one example.
The rest of your post deals with issues for a different topic.
Gregoryp
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and all i see is a great falling away , a lack of discernment, bickering and infighting, demons encouraging such bad behaviour, and the lost getting even more lost by the day. All over some trivia like when Jesus rose from the dead. You must have an awful lot of trouble deciding what color car to buy?
Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ rose again on the third day. And not on the second or fifth or whatever day. As scripture says ' just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for three days so shall the Son of Man be in the he earth for three days.'.
That would an issue for a different topic.
Likewise, that is an issue for a different topic.
Gregoryp
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So did you choose what color car to buy, or what make and model? Which decision is of more importance? Your welcome. Now please move on.
