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Figure of speech/colloquialism?

What seeds of doubt do you think are being planted?
The seeds of doubt of pre election, the seeds of doubt of the over 400 different bibles, the seeds of doubt of the written word of God, the false God, the false Jesus, the let us be tomorrow approach, the deliberate agenda of mayhem and chaos with scripture. All designed and orchestrated by demons.
 
The seeds of doubt of pre election, the seeds of doubt of the over 400 different bibles, the seeds of doubt of the written word of God, the false God, the false Jesus, the let us be tomorrow approach, the deliberate agenda of mayhem and chaos with scripture. All designed and orchestrated by demons.

How is asking someone to provide examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur plant the seeds of doubt of pre election, the seeds of doubt of the over 400 different bibles, the seeds of doubt of the written word of God?
 
[/BIBLE]

You don't seem willing to accept anything anyone tells you on the subject.
 
Yes.it.was addressed to you. The same subject As usual that you aren't satisfied with anyone's response.
 
How is asking someone to provide examples ...
Hi @rstrats, I would suggest that anything Bullinger writes should be taken with the common proverbial "grain of salt."

Indeed there are idioms (Paul's thorn in the flesh was a pain in the neck), but with regards to the three day time referent (which if I'm not mistaken is the underlying concern within your posts) there was much confusion within the early church made up of mostly Gentiles where the "day" to them started in the morning, whereas to the Jew, the day started at sundown.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.​
(Genesis 1:5 KJV)​

I went through the gospels and did the math. The New Testament texts clearly show that Jesus was dead and in the tomb by Thursday night using a Jewish timeline. But when uses the Roman reckoning of time, one gets the messed up "glitch" as followed by the Catholics and the Baptists.

(Sorry if I presume too much.)
Rhema
 
One thing to keep in mind is the Jewish "day"s starts at sunrise.
I don't think so. Even today the Jewish Sabbath starts on our Friday at sundown and continues to our Saturday at sundown.

I find myself surprised at your assertion, here, as Evening and Morning were the first day.

You're usually pretty good at the details, but this assertion remains unconvincing.

Thanks,
Rhema
 
Hi @rstrats,

Indeed there are idioms (Paul's thorn in the flesh was a pain in the neck), but with regards to the three day time referent (which if I'm not mistaken is the underlying concern within your posts)...


(Sorry if I presume too much.)
Rhema



It would be more accurate to say it was the impetus for the issue of this topic, which is the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
 
It would be more accurate to say it was the impetus for the issue of this topic, which is the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
Well I've been around the block a few times, yet I'm not too sure what you mean by "commonality of "forecasting." Days and nights were involved with the death of Jesus, were they not?

Perhaps I should read a bit more of page one.

Thank you kindly,
Rhema
 
Rhema,

re: "... I'm not too sure what you mean by 'commonality of 'forecasting.'"

That it was common usage to forecast that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.


re: "Days and nights were involved with the death of Jesus, were they not?"

Scripture says they were.
 
That it was common usage to forecast that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.
I find your statement somewhat confusing, so allow me to rephrase, and please let me know if my rewording carries your intent.

--------------
"That it was common to reference an idiom stating a specific number of day-times and night-times for an event meant only to be symbolic in nature, and not meant to conform with the actual number of day-times and night-times that occurred during the actual event."
--------------
In other words, are there instances in the Bible where a given time frame is in essence symbolic hyperbole rather than factual. For example, were there certain anticipated events (forecast) to be "forty days and forty nights," events that happened but were not actually "forty days and forty nights."

It took me a bit to realize that your phrase "could occur" as opposed to "had occurred" rather threw off my perception of your query.

I find the question interesting, and nothing immediately comes to mind save this:

Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.​
(John 11:9 KJV)​

The given number is representative rather than specific.

Thanks,
Rhema

(edited) That it was common usage to forecast that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time HAD occurred.
 
I find your statement somewhat confusing, so allow me to rephrase, and please let me know if my rewording carries your intent.

--------------
"That it was common to reference an idiom stating a specific number of day-times and night-times for an event meant only to be symbolic in nature, and not meant to conform with the actual number of day-times and night-times that occurred during the actual event."
--------------
In other words, are there instances in the Bible where a given time frame is in essence symbolic hyperbole rather than factual. For example, were there certain anticipated events (forecast) to be "forty days and forty nights," events that happened but were not actually "forty days and forty nights."

It took me a bit to realize that your phrase "could occur" as opposed to "had occurred" rather threw off my perception of your query.

I think so. However, I don't see how "could occur" as opposed to "had occurred" impacts on the intent.

BTW, the examples don't necessarily have to be from scripture but can be from any writing from the period or before.
 

Figure of speech/colloquialism?

Hello
1. The Messiah said that three nights would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth".

2. There are some who believe that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.

3. Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.

4. However, those two beliefs allow for only 2 nights to be involved.

5. To account for the discrepancy, some of the above say that the Messiah was using common figure of speech/colloquial language of the time, i.e., that it is was common to forecast or say that a day or a night would be involved with an event when no part of the day or no part of the night could occur.

6. In order for someone to legitimately say that it was common, they would have to know of more that 1 example to make that assertion.


I wonder if there is anyone here that knows of examples?
'For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly;
so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
(Mat 12:40)

Hello @restrats,

In my books on 'Figures of Speech found in the Bible' in regard to verse 40, I find that there are in fact three figures of speech in operation in this verse: but the words 'Three days and three nights' is found under the heading of 'Idioma', and the most appropriate meaning in this case is:- the language peculiar to one nation.

* Biblical examples given:- 1 Samuel 30:11-12. Ester 4:16;

The New Testament is for the most part Hebrew in idiom, but Greek in language. The book of Matthew is a translation from a Hebrew original. This is one of the idioms. It is used in Jonah 1:17 (2:1), and by our Lord in Matthew 12:40. Yet many Scriptures say that He should rise, and did actually rise on 'the third day.' This could not have been if the expression were used in its literal sense. It must have been the fourth day and not the 'third'.

The fact is that the idiom covers any part of 'three days and three nights.' This method of Hebrew reckoning is as distinct from Gentile reckoning, as their commencing the day at sunset and our commencing it at midnight. All these different modes of reckoning are peculiar to the respective peoples and languages and must be duly taken into consideration.

The Lord's words in Matthew 12:40 do not disagree with the Scripture assertion that He should rise on 'the third day.

We have the expression 'after three days' once (Matt. 27:63), and ''in three days' once (John 2:19). But the common expression is 'on the third day', and it occurs ten times. But if the expression be literal and not an idiom, all these passages should say the fourth day! Paul preached the resurrection on 'the third day' according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:4), and this is the great Scriptural fact which we cannot get away from.

Neither can we alter the fact that He rose on 'the first day of the week'.

Neither can we alter the history which records His death and burial as taking place the day before the Sabbath. 'The Sabbath drew on' (Luke 23:54, Matt. 27:62); 'the day before the sabbath' (Mark 15:42); and yet the two disciples going to Emmaus on the first day of the week say, 'This is the third day (not the fourth) since these things were done' (Luke 24:21).

From all this it is perfectly clear that nothing is to be gained by forcing the one passage (Matt. 12:40) to have a literal meaning, in the face of all these other passages which distinctly state that the Lord died and was buried the day before the Sabbath and rose the day after it, viz., on the first day of the week. These many statements are literal and are history: but the one passage is an idiom which means any part of 'three days and three nights'. The one complete day and night (24 hours) and the parts of two nights (36 hours in all) fully satisfy both the idiom and the history.

We gave a similar usage in English. When a person is sentenced to 'thee days' - imprisonment,' It may be late in the evening of the first day what he arrives at the prison, but when the doors open on the morning of the third day (not the fourth) he walks out a free man. In other words, if a person is committed to prison for three days, and he reaches it on Monday night, he leaves it the first thing on Wednesday morning.

:confused:
 
complete,

You referenced 2 instances that you think support your idea that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could have occurred. Only one of them might be an example, but only if "three days, night or day" means the same thing as "three days and three nights". One example doesn't show that it was common.

The rest of your comments deal with issues for a different topic.

BTW, your imprisonment example doesn't say anything about the number of daytimes and the number of night times that would need to be involved.
 
Yet many Scriptures say that He should rise, and did actually rise on 'the third day.' This could not have been if the expression were used in its literal sense. It must have been the fourth day and not the 'third'.

The fact is that the idiom covers any part of 'three days and three nights.' This method of Hebrew reckoning is as distinct from Gentile reckoning, as their commencing the day at sunset and our commencing it at midnight. All these different modes of reckoning are peculiar to the respective peoples and languages and must be duly taken into consideration.
While I do not have my research readily at hand, Jesus was indeed three days and three nights in the grave. Rather than being an idiom, the confusion lay in the Jewish cultural view that the day starts at sundown. Count them. You'll find three days and three nights. But when the church grew to consist mostly of Gentiles, confusion arose since the Roman day started at sunrise, in the perception of most people - just like us today. Jesus' crucifixion was actually on our Thursday during the daylight, since the day of preparation starts at Thursday sundown until the Sabbath starts on our Friday, sundown. The body was taken down before the "preparation."

Rhema

My apologies to @rstrats for slightly veering off OP.
 
Perhaps someone new looking in may know of examples.
I was wondering if this verse might address your concern. (Though I'll admit I'm still having trouble understanding exactly what you're after.)

(Jeremiah 7:22 NRSV) For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.​

There is reference to "in the day" that does not specify any part of daylight or night time. Indeed, it covers the entire 40 year period of the Hebrews wandering in the desert.

Rhema
 
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