Gehenna Hell - The punishment of the wicked knows no end!

[2BeholdHisGlory]

@2BeholdHisGlory
Greetings,

I think you have mis-understood @Butch5 .
Please let it go now and let us move on in God's peace.

What i read was Butch5 genuinely asking what you mean by the word used, 'spiritual'. Sometimes it helps if we come to an understanding of how another/each other uses terms and exactly what is meant. As Butch5 pointed out, a lot of folk repeat words but really do not know and/or are unable to explain what they mean.

Children often ask about what words mean. It makes you search out in simple words/pictures and can be very challenging.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

I am not ruffled at all, I just didnt perceive the genuiness you seem to attest to on his behalf.

I am the one who did not want to get involved in the engagement, and responded in kind in short. He asked for the definition not my thoughts on it so I directed him to the scriptures (which were not good enough) and I was pressed, so I am not the one doing the pressing. Or desire to contend with anyone.

And no hard feelings whatsoever, there is nothing uncommon about this sort of thing.

God bless you both

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

@2BeholdHisGlory
Greetings,

I think you have mis-understood @Butch5 .
Please let it go now and let us move on in God's peace.

What i read was Butch5 genuinely asking what you mean by the word used, 'spiritual'. Sometimes it helps if we come to an understanding of how another/each other uses terms and exactly what is meant. As Butch5 pointed out, a lot of folk repeat words but really do not know and/or are unable to explain what they mean.

Children often ask about what words mean. It makes you search out in simple words/pictures and can be very challenging.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

"Spiritual" is used to describe things and beings that are beyond the material level. Just think about it as the angel and devil on your shoulders. There's a spiritual realm where God and his angels dwell in, it's connected with this physical universe by a gateway, known as "Jacob's ladder."

 

[Br. Bear]

I agree. In this instance I tried to limit its use as a figure of speech used of God Himself. Usually when we see God's breath or spirit on someone it's giving them the power to perform something. For instance the apostles were able to raise the dead and do other miracles via this power.

Greetings Brother,

is there a parallel between 'power' and 'authority'?

If you do not mind me sayings so, in writing, what you gave me is similar to the situation you described previously about understanding what an other person understands and therefore means, when using a word.
'Power' is yet another word 'used' but do we really know what is meant in it's using. In considering it, the word 'power', what are we saying and more importantly, what is the Lord saying and how should we both understand it and use it?

As you have probably encountered, on reading such a word that is 'open for discrepancy, my understanding might differ from an other's and for that matter, anyone's hearing could differ from what an other says/writes/ tries to convey. As you no doubt appreciate, we are meant to be one Body with one mind, working together in God's will and harmony, or else how do we fit together, fitly framed (although, God can do wonderful things as the Master Builder).

Thank you for replying


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

I am not ruffled at all, I just didnt perceive the genuiness you seem to attest to on his behalf.

I am the one who did not want to get involved in the engagement, and responded in kind in short. He asked for the definition not my thoughts on it so I directed him to the scriptures (which were not good enough) and I was pressed, so I am not the one doing the pressing. Or desire to contend with anyone.

And no hard feelings whatsoever, there is nothing uncommon about this sort of thing.

God bless you both

Greetings fellow labourer,

thank you for replying. As you no doubt realise, forums can and do often have mis-understandings but the Lord is good and is able and willing that we persevere in His love and grow together with patience, as we so much desire His patience with us.

yes, nothing uncommon with this sort of thing. As with Brothers not quite getting fellowship right on the first mis-understanding. But we have a great and glorious God and Father Who is faithful to His Word, and we have the Author and Finisher of our Faith Who is perfecting each of us. Therefore, let us run the race and in esteeming others before ourselves and helping those in need, as God has so blessed us, let us run with patience and brotherly love, looking unto Jesus.

This people have I formed for Myself; they shall shew forth My praise.
Isaiah 43:21

LORD, Thou wilt ordain peace for us: for Thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
Isaiah 26:12


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

"Spiritual" is used to describe things and beings that are beyond the material level. Just think about it as the angel and devil on your shoulders. There's a spiritual realm where God and his angels dwell in, it's connected with this physical universe by a gateway, known as "Jacob's ladder."

Greetings Brother,

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:7

When we read this,

Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone; in Whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a holy temple in the Lord: in Whom ye also are builded together for a habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 2:20-22

can and does what you have put forth help us understand properly what is conveyed in that portion of Scripture?

Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord.
Romans 12:11


Bless you ....><>

 

[Butch5]

Greetings Brother,

is there a parallel between 'power' and 'authority'?

If you do not mind me sayings so, in writing, what you gave me is similar to the situation you described previously about understanding what an other person understands and therefore means, when using a word.
'Power' is yet another word 'used' but do we really know what is meant in it's using. In considering it, the word 'power', what are we saying and more importantly, what is the Lord saying and how should we both understand it and use it?

As you have probably encountered, on reading such a word that is 'open for discrepancy, my understanding might differ from an other's and for that matter, anyone's hearing could differ from what an other says/writes/ tries to convey. As you no doubt appreciate, we are meant to be one Body with one mind, working together in God's will and harmony, or else how do we fit together, fitly framed (although, God can do wonderful things as the Master Builder).

Thank you for replying


Bless you ....><>

Hi Brother Bear, forgive me for the delayed response. I've been busy and have taken a little break. I would submit that as far as the Scriptures are concerned, power and authority are not the same words, even though the KJV does use them interchangeably. The Greek word translated power is dunamis. It's where we get our word dynamite. It means the ability to do something. Authority, exousia, is the authorization to speak or act on behalf of another. Jesus had the authority to speak on behalf of the Father, however, He did not have the power of the Father, hence His need for the Holy Spirit. We know this from Jesus' own words. Regarding the miracles, He said He didn't have the power, but that it was the Father in Him who was doing the works. This was done via the Holy Spirit.

 

[Br. Bear]

Thank you for getting back, Brother.

so... is that 'power' the breath wind spirit?

Yes, KJV does mix and match sometimes which makes one search a bit if they want what they seek.
I think modern man (at least) has 'learnt' to use the word power as it rolls off the tongue and yet there are times it is the 'authority' they speak of.
Do you think the two are really that different?
In other words, is there any difference between God's authority and the dynamite it comes with?

for example... in the beginning God said.... and as He said, it was/is so. [hence, I AM THAT I AM ]


Bless you ....><>

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35

 

[Butch5]

Thank you for getting back, Brother.

so... is that 'power' the breath wind spirit?

Yes, KJV does mix and match sometimes which makes one search a bit if they want what they seek.
I think modern man (at least) has 'learnt' to use the word power as it rolls off the tongue and yet there are times it is the 'authority' they speak of.
Do you think the two are really that different?
In other words, is there any difference between God's authority and the dynamite it comes with?

for example... in the beginning God said.... and as He said, it was/is so. [hence, I AM THAT I AM ]


Bless you ....><>

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35

Hi Br. Bear,

I do believe they are different. One can have authority without power however, they usually do go together. For instance, Jesus said He had the authority (exousia) to forgive sins. This authority came from the Father. He also, when speaking of the works He did, said that he didn't have the power (dunamis) to do them. In other words, He could say, (authority, exousia) to Lazarus come forth, but He couldn't actually make it happen. In order for Lazarus to come to life, it required the power (dumamis) of the Father. It was the Father who brought Lazarus back to life. It was Jesus who had the authority to call on that Power. That's how I understand the difference between the two.

 

[Br. Bear]

Thank you for replying Brother. @Butch5

something I shall chew on and as I recently had my last chomper removed, chewing things over takes a bit longer (pardon the pun - bit/bite). Always lessons to learn, praise the Lord.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Butch5]

Thank you for replying Brother. @Butch5

something I shall chew on and as I recently had my last chomper removed, chewing things over takes a bit longer (pardon the pun - bit/bite). Always lessons to learn, praise the Lord.


Bless you ....><>

You're welcome my friend! I was trying to find the passage where Jesus states clearly that He did not have the power to do the works. I'll try again to find it.

 

[Br. Bear]

Hi Br. Bear,

I do believe they are different. One can have authority without power however, they usually do go together. For instance, Jesus said He had the authority (exousia) to forgive sins. This authority came from the Father. He also, when speaking of the works He did, said that he didn't have the power (dunamis) to do them. In other words, He could say, (authority, exousia) to Lazarus come forth, but He couldn't actually make it happen. In order for Lazarus to come to life, it required the power (dumamis) of the Father. It was the Father who brought Lazarus back to life. It was Jesus who had the authority to call on that Power. That's how I understand the difference between the two.

Thank you for replying Brother. @Butch5

something I shall chew on and as I recently had my last chomper removed, chewing things over takes a bit longer (pardon the pun - bit/bite). Always lessons to learn, praise the Lord.


Bless you ....><>

You're welcome my friend! I was trying to find the passage where Jesus states clearly that He did not have the power to do the works. I'll try again to find it.

Greetings @Butch5

I am reminded of when Jesus sent the seventy in Luke chapter 10
(Also, Luke 9:1 )


After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before His face into every city and place, whither He Himself would come. Therefore said He unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He would send forth labourers into His harvest. Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name. And He said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


and what Jesus said

In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank Thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that Thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in Thy sight. All things are delivered to Me of My Father: and no man knoweth Who the Son is, but the Father; and Who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal Him.


And He turned Him unto His disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: for I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


Bless you ....><>

And He called the twelve together and gave them power and authority over all demons and to cure diseases,
Luke 9:1