Gehenna Hell - The punishment of the wicked knows no end!

[Jonathan_Gale]

You and Stewardofthemystery should talk he loves numbers.

Ever count the number of Moses age in Gematria? Same number in Genesis before the waters, same number at Moses death before the Jordon and the number of silver brought to Solomon by the Queen of Sheba and about the same number of disciples seated together just before pentatacost.

The day Adam was created to the day Moses died can be counted that way comes up kind of neat using that.

You know, I keep pounding on the phrase Spirit of TRUTH because I don't want the term "spirit" to be mystified like some kind of superpower, a rush to shout out a bunch of mumbo jumbo in public or some kind of gateway to connect with ghosts. Those are, unfortunately, the impression of "spirit" in a lot of people's mind. There're lying spirits everywhere, everyday, proliferating by the power of modern technology, driving the whole world crazy. We can't just ignore them and pretend that they don't exist. As much as nature abhors vacuum, don't expect them to leave you alone, they'll always find a way to sneak into your mind and gain a foothold, and the only way to cast them out is by the Spirit of TRUTH. Spirit in general is the movement of air, it gives life, which Satan will be able to make a counterfeit in Rev. 13:15 to his own image through genetic engineering; what he can't counterfeit is the Spirit of Truth, which that can lead us to the real Christ who died for our sins.

 

[Butch5]

I believe the scriptures as they lay things out and can be comparing spiritual things. The law is spiritual, Take Sarah and Agar they are an allegory, they are two covenants.

In respects to death, I believe Jesus death was literal, where? Even as it pertain to Galgotha ( meaning "the place of the skull") can show the spiritual state of the carnal mind (which is death) so even in that if you fill in the blank shows a symbol of death (an example of being carnally minded). And an emnity against God. Which is also the place we pass from "death unto life" by Christ. (and His Fathers name pertains to the forehead) But he was also crucified in a place spiritually called Sodom Egypt too, so you could chose one and run with what is often sitting there waiting to be discovered as the Spirit teaches us spiritual things, but I believe Christ literally died, so I do not see His death as something I cannot take literal. But I am not literal minded the scriptures should define those limits along with the help of the Spirit of God who teaches us these things.

What is "spiritual"? What does it mean?

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

You know, I keep pounding on the phrase Spirit of TRUTH because I don't want the term "spirit" to be mystified like some kind of superpower, a rush to shout out a bunch of mumbo jumbo in public or some kind of gateway to connect with ghosts. Those are, unfortunately, the impression of "spirit" in a lot of people's mind. There're lying spirits everywhere, everyday, proliferating by the power of modern technology, driving the whole world crazy. We can't just ignore them and pretend that they don't exist. As much as nature abhors vacuum, don't expect them to leave you alone, they'll always find a way to sneak into your mind and gain a foothold, and the only way to cast them out is by the Spirit of TRUTH. Spirit in general is the movement of air, it gives life, which Satan will be able to make a counterfeit in Rev. 13:15 to his own image through genetic engineering; what he can't counterfeit is the Spirit of Truth, which that can lead us to the real Christ who died for our sins.

Well, don't worry about that , the Spirit of truth is mentioned as such 4 times, who we know is the Comforter and in Mat 12:28 when speaking of casting out devils Jesus uses the words "The Spirit of God" and did not pound the phrase " the Spirit of TRUTH"

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

That aside, some come out this way

Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

So I wouldn't get hung up on words

Besides, we are to be casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Best way to know a counterfeit is to handle the real thing , abide in Christ and His words.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

What is "spiritual"? What does it mean?

Here you go

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

 

[Butch5]

Here you go

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

Posting passages doesn't tell me how you understand the word.

Which of those passages tells me what spiritual means?

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Posting passages doesn't tell me how you understand the word.

Which of those passages tells me what spiritual means?

Thats what it means, whats the difference between me writing the definition out freehand for you or directing you to the place.

Try comparing between carnal and spiritual things here

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

There are carnal things and spiritual things, one pertains to the flesh/physical/natural and the other belongs to the Spirit.

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit

Wherever strife is there is the natural man/ carnal man

1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1 Cr 3: 1-2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

1 Cr 3: 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So just as I might regard the nature of death pertaining to the flesh (on the one account) as it relates to what is physical.carnal and under the power of the flesh and its mindedness relating to death, hatred divisions, strifes etc, those things belong to carnality

On the other hand that which is spiritual has passed from death unto life and peace (even though the carnal counterpart will seek for war) These are teachable and more ready to receive what the Spirit teaches them, whereas the other cannot receive those things.

Even in respects to the Spirit's teaching, he changes the way we are able to receive things and does so through comparing even as Paul speaks of it. One can discern far more then the other because one is by its own strength (the flesh) which is weak and the other is by the Spirit of God which exceeds our own strength.

Thats just a brief summary

 

[Butch5]

Thats what it means, whats the difference between me writing the definition out freehand for you or directing you to the place.

Try comparing between carnal and spiritual things here

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

There are carnal things and spiritual things, one pertains to the flesh/physical/natural and the other belongs to the Spirit.

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit

Wherever strife is there is the natural man/ carnal man

1 Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

1 Cr 3: 1-2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

1 Cr 3: 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

So just as I might regard the nature of death pertaining to the flesh (on the one account) as it relates to what is physical.carnal and under the power of the flesh and its mindedness relating to death, hatred divisions, strifes etc, those things belong to carnality

On the other hand that which is spiritual has passed from death unto life and peace (even though the carnal counterpart will seek for war) These are teachable and more ready to receive what the Spirit teaches them, whereas the other cannot receive those things.

Even in respects to the Spirit's teaching, he changes the way we are able to receive things and does so through comparing even as Paul speaks of it. One can discern far more then the other because one is by its own strength (the flesh) which is weak and the other is by the Spirit of God which exceeds our own strength.

Thats just a brief summary

You're telling me what it can do. I'm asking what it is. You see, I hear people talk about "spiritual" things often. However, when I ask them to define it, they can't. They usually do just as you've done here. They'll post Scripture passages. The problem is those passage don't define what "spiritual" is. It's actually a pretty simple answer. It surprises me that so many don't seem to have the answer. It seems people use it as a buzz word, throwing it around without any real understanding of what it is.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

You're telling me what it can do. I'm asking what it is. You see, I hear people talk about "spiritual" things often. However, when I ask them to define it, they can't. They usually do just as you've done here. They'll post Scripture passages. The problem is those passage don't define what "spiritual" is. It's actually a pretty simple answer. It surprises me that so many don't seem to have the answer. It seems people use it as a buzz word, throwing it around without any real understanding of what it is.

Then you asked me insincerely as I suspected which is why I posted the link to you, when you pressed asking insincerely I laid out something brief that was no better then what the links showed, and so it was just contend and strive with me over it and you have your answer

That was easy to see coming

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Well, don't worry about that , the Spirit of truth is mentioned as such 4 times, who we know is the Comforter and in Mat 12:28 when speaking of casting out devils Jesus uses the words "The Spirit of God" and did not pound the phrase " the Spirit of TRUTH"

Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

That aside, some come out this way

Mat 17:21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

So I wouldn't get hung up on words

Besides, we are to be casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

Best way to know a counterfeit is to handle the real thing , abide in Christ and His words.

Spirit of truth comes explicitly from the Farewell Discourse. In that specific context, spirit is no longer just circulation of air, but the truth that reveals the real Christ - amidst all the lies while He's in heaven seated at the right hand of God, and we're sent among the wolves. The Spirit of God is sevenfold, it certainly has more than one component.

 

[Butch5]

Then you asked me insincerely as I suspected which is why I posted the link to you, when you pressed asking insincerely I laid out something brief that was no better then what the links showed, and so it was just contend and strive with me over it and you have your answer

That was easy to see coming

No, I did ask sincerely. That I didn't think you'd have an answer doesn't mean the question wasn't sincere. I was actually hoping you had an answer. Because now I have no idea what you mean by spiritual. You keep using the word but I don't know what you mean by it. How can there be discussion when we haven't defined the terms? I'm pretty sure when you use the word and I use the word we're not referring to the same thing. Thus there can only be confusion in the discussion.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Spirit of truth comes explicitly from the Farewell Discourse. In that specific context, spirit is no longer just circulation of air, but the truth that reveals the real Christ - amidst all the lies while He's in heaven seated at the right hand of God, and we're sent among the wolves. The Spirit of God is sevenfold, it certainly has more than one component.

There were seven eyes on that one stone before Joshua and Jesus is likewise the stone upon whom the same rested even as the Lamb that had been slain, is shown in Revelation having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Even one and the selfsame Spirit, can divide to every man severally as he will. In Christ was the fulness and we have received that fulness.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

There were seven eyes on that one stone before Joshua and Jesus is likewise the stone upon whom the same rested even as the Lamb that had been slain, is shown in Revelation having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Even one and the selfsame Spirit, can divide to every man severally as he will. In Christ was the fulness and we have received that fulness.

Yeah, seven spirits burning in the seven-branched menorah. You know, if you believe that Yeshua didn't skip the whole church age right to the end of the world, then that 200 years of church age is covered by the seven letters to the seven churches, each church not only represents one local church community in that geographic location in today's Turkey, or just a type of church, but also an era, so there're seven eras from Ephesus to Laodicea, each spirit is also a "zeitgeist" - spirit of the age, and we're living in the last one.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

No, I did ask sincerely. That I didn't think you'd have an answer doesn't mean the question wasn't sincere. I was actually hoping you had an answer. Because now I have no idea what you mean by spiritual. You keep using the word but I don't know what you mean by it. How can there be discussion when we haven't defined the terms? I'm pretty sure when you use the word and I use the word we're not referring to the same thing. Thus there can only be confusion in the discussion.

What you do for sincere discussion is not to ask a question seeking to trap people in their words, which happens all the times on these sorts of forums , If you have a better answer post it, and discuss. You don't have to inch in pretend you are wondering about it sincerely, ask and when someone sees it coming ( decides to post a link) just to divert the incoming contention. And when that attempt doesnt work (as I knew it wouldnt) you come back for more, So I posted another link for you to compare between the mention of carnal things and spiritual things for yourself, And as soon as said a little something behind it (which obviously didnt amount to much) it was just enough for you to come in and basically tell me you have some simpler answer tucked away all along that hardly anyone knows but you.

And so there you go, you never needed to ask me because you have the superior answer and I am okay with that.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Yeah, seven spirits burning in the seven-branched menorah. You know, if you believe that Yeshua didn't skip the whole church age right to the end of the world, then that 200 years of church age is covered by the seven letters to the seven churches, each church not only represents one local church community in that geographic location in today's Turkey, or just a type of church, but also an era, so there're seven eras from Ephesus to Laodicea, each spirit is also a "zeitgeist" - spirit of the age, and we're living in the last one.

Never heard of it interesting.

 

[2BeholdHisGlory]

Well, its been fun, havent been on a forum for awhile, thought I missed being on them but its tiring, so I won't be participating any further.

Take care and God bless you all.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Never heard of it interesting.

Yeshua mentioned this to John: "what you've seen, what you see now, and what must take place after this." "What you've seen" is His earthly ministry and everything before that; "what you see now" is the glorified Yeshua, the seven stars and the seven lampstands, this includes the seven letters; what must take place after this" is the end times from Rev. 4:1 till the end of the book. So These seven churches are definitely not just seven small church communities in today's Turkey, but the whole church age. Whether there's a progression from Ephesus to Laodicea, though, it's a matter of opinion. It makes perfect sense to me, though, at least the spirit of Laodicea is thriving in a lot of churches today.

The Seven Churches of Revelation - Bible Meaning Explained

The seven churches are the primary focus of the first three chapters of Revelation. They are represented by seven golden lampstands, and the seven angels – or messengers – of the churches, represented by seven stars in the right hand of Jesus. These churches are located in Asia, modern Turkey...

www.biblestudytools.com

 

[Br. Bear]

So, then you agree that death is being used as a metaphor, correct? If so, then spiritual death is not a real thing.

There is a spirit in man, It's God's breath or spirit. Man is not a spirit. When the apostles saw Jesus walking on the water they thought they had seen a spirit. Jesus informed them saying, 'a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have'. Man has flesh and bone. If Jesus wasn't a spirit then neither is any other man. Again, man has a spirit or breath in him, but that breath or spirit is something of God, not man.

Since the word spirit is a figurative usage of the Greek and Hebrew words, noe, pnuema, ruah, and neshamah, which mean wind, what is the figure? What is the spirit of God? The breath or spirit of life is that power which gives man life, the ability to function, to think, to reason, etc. Without it man is dead. So, if the breath or spirit of life is God's power that allows man to live, what is the Holy Breath or Spirit? Would it not be the same power of God to enable man to live holy. Man is sinful and cannot live holy before God without God's help via the Holy Breath. Some will surely balk at this statement however, let us look at what Luke writes.

30 Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33 And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” 34 Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”
35 And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.


The New King James Version (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982), Lk 1:30–35.

Here Luke equates the Holy breath or Spirit with the power of the Highest. The Highest is God the Father. It is by His power that Mary conceived. So, it would seem from this that the figure is one of power. The wind or breath of God is a figure of speech used to denote God's power or a power from God.

Greetings,

Power is also a word that can be tossed around.

What does 'power' mean?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

What you do for sincere discussion is not to ask a question seeking to trap people in their words, which happens all the times on these sorts of forums , If you have a better answer post it, and discuss. You don't have to inch in pretend you are wondering about it sincerely, ask and when someone sees it coming ( decides to post a link) just to divert the incoming contention. And when that attempt doesnt work (as I knew it wouldnt) you come back for more, So I posted another link for you to compare between the mention of carnal things and spiritual things for yourself, And as soon as said a little something behind it (which obviously didnt amount to much) it was just enough for you to come in and basically tell me you have some simpler answer tucked away all along that hardly anyone knows but you.

And so there you go, you never needed to ask me because you have the superior answer and I am okay with that.

@2BeholdHisGlory
Greetings,

I think you have mis-understood @Butch5 .
Please let it go now and let us move on in God's peace.

What i read was Butch5 genuinely asking what you mean by the word used, 'spiritual'. Sometimes it helps if we come to an understanding of how another/each other uses terms and exactly what is meant. As Butch5 pointed out, a lot of folk repeat words but really do not know and/or are unable to explain what they mean.

Children often ask about what words mean. It makes you search out in simple words/pictures and can be very challenging.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Butch5]

What you do for sincere discussion is not to ask a question seeking to trap people in their words, which happens all the times on these sorts of forums , If you have a better answer post it, and discuss. You don't have to inch in pretend you are wondering about it sincerely, ask and when someone sees it coming ( decides to post a link) just to divert the incoming contention. And when that attempt doesnt work (as I knew it wouldnt) you come back for more, So I posted another link for you to compare between the mention of carnal things and spiritual things for yourself, And as soon as said a little something behind it (which obviously didnt amount to much) it was just enough for you to come in and basically tell me you have some simpler answer tucked away all along that hardly anyone knows but you.

And so there you go, you never needed to ask me because you have the superior answer and I am okay with that.

No, as I said, it was a sincere question. If I understand the word differently than you do, it's only logical that I would understand those passages differently than you do. If I understand those passages differently than you do, my reading them tells me nothing about how "you" understand the word.

If you think it means one thing and I think it means another then reading those passages doesn't help. I still don't know how you understand the word. That's why I asked thr question. For me to just read the passages and "assume" what you mean only leads to confusion. I've seen this countless times.

If you can't or would rather not give your understanding that's fine. All you need to do is say so. There's no need for accusations.

 

[Butch5]

Greetings,

Power is also a word that can be tossed around.

What does 'power' mean?


Bless you ....><>

I agree. In this instance I tried to limit its use as a figure of speech used of God Himself. Usually when we see God's breath or spirit on someone it's giving them the power to perform something. For instance the apostles were able to raise the dead and do other miracles via this power.