Godhead VS. Trinity?

[Sue D.]

You are grasping straws that aren't there. And, just maybe, it is You who are in denial.

God inspired Moses as to what to write guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Enxu]

You are grasping straws that aren't there. And, just maybe, it is You who are in denial.

God inspired Moses as to what to write guided by the Holy Spirit.

I’m not in denial of anything. Moses stressed to the children of Israel that the Lord is One. Meanwhile the pagans around Moses believed in trinity false gods. He himself never taught the trinity concept as a major prophet of YAHUVEH.

I don’t see why you feel the need to convince me to believe in a concept that not even the first prophet of God Moses taught.

The truth will reveal itself to those who seek it over time, if they are willing to accept it. This argument is fruitless.

 

[Sue D.]

You're right --'this' is kind of fruitless.

You want Moses to teach that which You think he should have been teaching. Moses was the leader that God chose -- God showed His power- as He chose to- as He led the people away from the Pharaoh.

 

[Enxu]

You're right --'this' is kind of fruitless.

You want Moses to teach that which You think he should have been teaching. Moses was the leader that God chose -- God showed His power- as He chose to- as He led the people away from the Pharaoh.

It is not what I want, it is what God would want Moses to teach IF it was true. Moses didn’t teach it, meaning that it isn’t true. On the contrary, Moses taught against the pagan trinity concept.

 

[Sue D.]

So Now you're an authority for what God would want Moses to teach If it were true.

Your logical thinking leaves a Lot to be desired.

Over and out.

 

[Enxu]

So Now you're an authority for what God would want Moses to teach If it were true.

Your logical thinking leaves a Lot to be desired.

Over and out.

You’re putting words into my mouth. This was a discussion, but you’ve started to turn it into a personal tirade of your false assumptions about me. Examine your fruits, is such reaction from you pleasing to God?

I never said I was authority on any matters. I don’t know why you get offended over what anyone could logically conclude about this. Perhaps you are offended that you can no longer defend what you were taught? Still, you shouldn’t be attacking me over it, I wanted this argument to stop and let time reveal the truth, but you decided to escalate it into a personal attack. Stop.

 

[Sue D.]

Enxu -- You brought Moses into the conversation and decided what you thought he should have been teaching the Children of Israel as he was leading them out of Egypt.

You're Acting like you're an authority with your not especially logical conclusions.

Moses was doing exactly what God told Him to do -- We are learning about it through God's inspired Word as the Holy Spirit told Moses what to write down. And That does not appear to meet up to Your expectations.

This has nothing to do with what I was taught. I can read Scripture as well as anyone can. that is what I was 'taught' to do. TO read Scripture.

That since Moses didn't teach a particular thing in Scripture -- then it must not be true. Can we Also apply that to the virgin birth of Jesus Christ or the death, burial and bodily resurrrection? He didn't tell the Children of Israel about That, so does That make those things not true, Too?

After all, Moses Was delivering the people out of the physical bondage of slavery back then. He Could have shared that Jesus Christ was going to be coming to deliver everyone -- future generations -- from spiritual bondage from sin on the cross.

You are taking it as a personal attack which really isn't necessary or intended. So -- yes, I will stop.

 

[mokapuj]

Since Moses never taught that God is a trinity, it is futile to convince me otherwise. I adhere only to Scriptures.

The only reason I mentioned Moses is because he was the first prophet who spoke to God face to face. Even so, he never once taught any concept of trinity to God’s people. The role of a prophet is to lead people back to the one true God, to teach the truth about who He is. The fact that Moses never portrayed God as a trinity is very telling that the trinity concept never originated from God. Anyone who fails to see this is in denial.

Interesting

 

[Chad]

Could someone please explain the difference in the Godhead and the Trinity? Thank you!

Please read these threads.

Who is the Holy Spirit And What Does He Do?

Who is the Holy Spirit? First, every pronoun used in reference to the Spirit is “he” not “it.” The original Greek language of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have...

www.talkjesus.com

Trinity

To encounter God, be prepared for someone who exceeds all expectations! The logic necessary to comprehend the creator of the universe transcends human intelligence. If the most brilliant scientists in the history of the human race were placed in a laboratory with adequate...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[rstrats]

Sue D.,
re: "God always Has been part of the trinity."

Can the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit converse back and forth among themselves, and can God join in when He wants to?

 

[Sue D.]

The three persons of the Godhead have their individual roles - as can be seen throughout Scripture.

Jesus Christ Did pray to the Father in heaven while He was here on earth.

And the Lord / Lord God Did speak to / converse With / various people in the Old Testament.

God speaks to us through prayer and His Word. And the Holy Spirit intercedes for us to God when we don't know how To pray when we Are praying.

 

[Enxu]

Enxu -- You brought Moses into the conversation and decided what you thought he should have been teaching the Children of Israel as he was leading them out of Egypt.

You're Acting like you're an authority with your not especially logical conclusions.

Moses was doing exactly what God told Him to do -- We are learning about it through God's inspired Word as the Holy Spirit told Moses what to write down. And That does not appear to meet up to Your expectations.

This has nothing to do with what I was taught. I can read Scripture as well as anyone can. that is what I was 'taught' to do. TO read Scripture.

That since Moses didn't teach a particular thing in Scripture -- then it must not be true. Can we Also apply that to the virgin birth of Jesus Christ or the death, burial and bodily resurrrection? He didn't tell the Children of Israel about That, so does That make those things not true, Too?

After all, Moses Was delivering the people out of the physical bondage of slavery back then. He Could have shared that Jesus Christ was going to be coming to deliver everyone -- future generations -- from spiritual bondage from sin on the cross.

You are taking it as a personal attack which really isn't necessary or intended. So -- yes, I will stop.

You are still keeping up with your false assumptions about me by saying that I'm acting like I'm authority. What I felt from your post was not a conviction from God which would bring me to repentance, but a fiery arrow from the enemy. That is why I asked you to examine your fruit and stop, for YOUR good. I have yet to throw such assumptions at you even if I disagree with you. Repent.

Moses did not teach the virgin birth and Jesus' death, burial and bodily resurrection, but he did teach about the Messiah. The virgin birth and Jesus' death/burial/resurrection are far away events that none of the Israelis in Moses' time will ever witness, so what is the point in revealing them to Israel? So God inspired Moses to teach them to believe in the coming Messiah through looking on the bronze serpent (Numbers 21:9), which is relevant to their faith in their time.

Whether God is a trinity or not is certainly relevant to the Israelis' faith in God in their time, there is NO reason why God would not reveal it to Moses and teach it to the Israelis. The only reason Moses never got a revelation that God is trinity is because God is not a trinity.

 

[Chad]

The only reason is that God is not a trinity.

That is entirely false. What part of Father, Son, Holy Spirit do you not understand? 3 persons, one God.

 

[Chad]

I will say to both of you @Enxu and @Sue D. to be respectful in your responses. Otherwise I’ll prune posts I deem harsh toned.

 

[Enxu]

That is entirely false. What part of Father, Son, Holy Spirit do you not understand? 3 persons, one God.

Regarding who the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Helper is in John 14:16-18. From the Pulpit Commentary from Biblehub:

In the thought of the early Church the Lord was the Spirit: the glorified Lord, the Christ, who had "all power in heaven and earth," was manifested, was veritably present, in all the work of the Spirit of God in his Church. The Spirit was not only the Unity of the Father and the Son, the one Self-consciousness of both, but the one Consciousness of the Son of God and Son of man, the uniting Energy which represents the one Personality of the Christ, the Spirit-power which blends all the members of the mystical body with the Head. Throughout the Acts of the Apostles we see that all the great operations of the Holy Spirit are but the energies of the living, reigning Lord.

God made man in His image, consisting of two persons, male and female. There was no third person. You may wish to do your own research on the origin of the trinity doctrine, which was a prevalent doctrine taught in all pagan religions that deny Jesus as the Messiah, LONG BEFORE Jesus even came to earth.

In Acts 2:38, Peter said Christians are to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ, yet in the trinity baptism formula, the name Jesus is completely removed and replaced with a dubious line "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit". Yet what is that name is not specified, because Scriptures never said the Father or Spirit has the name Jesus. So under what authority or who changed the baptism formula? The Roman Catholic Church:

The Catholic Encyclopedia II (Page 263)
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century.”

Britannica Encyclopedia 11th Edition,Vol 3 (Page 82, and Pages 365-366)
“Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.”- “The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century.”

Canney Encylopedia of Religion (Page 53)
“The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of the Trinity doctrine in the 2nd century.”

 

[Chad]

Regarding who the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Helper is in John 14:16-18. From the Pulpit Commentary from Biblehub:



God made man in His image, consisting of two persons, male and female. There is no third person. You may wish to do your research on the origin of the trinity doctrine, which was a prevalent doctrine taught in all pagan religions that deny Jesus as the Messiah, LONG BEFORE Jesus even came to earth.

In Acts 2:38, Peter said Christians are to be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ, yet in the trinity baptism formula, the name Jesus is completely removed.

I've been reading the bible for 18 years. I've been listening to podcasts from the best preachers of the Word globally for over 10 years. They all preach the Trinity. Tell me they're wrong and you are more wiser than they are.

One God = 3 persons. Simple, straightforward, 100% biblical in the OT and NT (yes both).

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So tell me, who is "US" in the above verse? Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Let's see if you have a teachable, humble spirit. Here are other articles that explains.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

What does the Bible say about the Trinity / Triunity? Is the doctrine of the Trinity found in the Bible? How is the trinity not tritheism?

www.gotquestions.org

Is the “Trinity” in the Bible? (yes, Zondervan that created NIV translation)

Is the Trinity Biblical? | Tabletalk

The doctrine of the Trinity is certainly a “good and necessary consequence” of what is expressly set down in Scripture.

tabletalkmagazine.com

Scripture clearly distinguishes the Father from the Son. The Father sent the Son (John 3:16–17; Gal. 4:4). The Father and Son love each other (John 3:35; 5:20; 14:31). They speak to each other (John 11:41–42). They know each other (Matt. 11:27). The Son is our Advocate with the Father (1 John 2:1). None of these texts makes any sense unless the Father is distinguished from the Son.

Scripture also clearly distinguishes the Son from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit descends upon the Son at His baptism (Luke 3:22). The Holy Spirit is another Comforter (John 14:16). The Son sends the Holy Spirit (15:26; 16:7). The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son (16:13–14). Finally, Scripture distinguishes the Father from the Holy Spirit. The Father sends the Holy Spirit (14:15; 15:26). The Holy Spirit is said to intercede with the Father (Rom. 8:26–27). All three are distinguished in numerous passages, but the most familiar one is part of Jesus’ Great Commission when He commands the disciples to baptize the nations “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

 

[Sue D.]

@Chad -- I have no desire to continue this diague with Enxu.

@Enxu -- commentaries are not inspired. They are written by men no matter what source they come from. There are many groups 'out there' that take passages From Scripture and manage to misrepresent what's actually Being taught.

And 'being convinced in your own mind' doesn't necessarily mean being 'correct'.

the Holy Spirit has a very integral part in our salvation.

Terminology such as "the one Self-consciousness of both, but the one Consciousness of....... " sounds suspiciously like a belief system that is Close but not really The truth.

Even That commentary uses the term 'Holy Spirit'.

 

[Enxu]

I've been reading the bible for 18 years. I've been listening to podcasts from the best preachers of the Word globally for over 10 years. They all preach the Trinity. Tell me they're wrong and you are more wiser than they are.

One God = 3 persons. Simple, straightforward, 100% biblical in the OT and NT (yes both).

Genesis 1:26

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So tell me, who is "US" in the above verse? Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

Let's see if you have a teachable, humble spirit. Here are other articles that explains.

What does the Bible teach about the Trinity? | GotQuestions.org

What does the Bible say about the Trinity / Triunity? Is the doctrine of the Trinity found in the Bible? How is the trinity not tritheism?

www.gotquestions.org

Is the “Trinity” in the Bible? (yes, Zondervan that created NIV translation)

Is the Trinity Biblical? | Tabletalk

The doctrine of the Trinity is certainly a “good and necessary consequence” of what is expressly set down in Scripture.

tabletalkmagazine.com

I've edited my previous post, please read again.

If I may ask, if God is a trinity, why did He make TWO persons as man, and not three?

 

[Chad]

I've edited my previous post, please read again.

If I may ask, if God is a trinity, why did He make TWO persons as man, and not three?

Body, Soul, Spirit. That is what a human is. One human = 3 parts. See how simple it is?

Plus, why does God have to create humans exactly like him? That doesn't make any sense and not sure why you assume such has to be the case. We're humans, we're not God. Simple.

 

[Enxu]

Body, Soul, Spirit. That is what a human is. One human = 3 parts. See how simple it is?

Plus, why does God have to create humans exactly like him? That doesn't make any sense and not sure why you assume such has to be the case. We're humans, we're not God. Simple.

So are you suggesting we are now three persons united in one? I don't think that makes sense??

Genesis said God created man in His image, why create two if He is three in one?

Also, if the trinity is true (three persons coequal if I remember correctly), why did Paul write this:

1 Corinthians 15:28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

Why will the Son be one day under God's authority if He is to be coequal forever with His Father?