Going from the Nursery to the Garden of Faith

[Bill]

Over the years i have been here at Talk Jesus i often hear this phrase, "where is that in the scripture", and i will commenly respond, the Scripture is not the "end all".

Unfortunatey, the churches have been teaching this for a very long time, but it is not the way Jesus wants us to grow in faith. As growing in faith requires trust in things that do not have an answer.

If the Teaching that is presented today was taught when the apostles were alive, where in scripture would Peter have gone to trust Jesus enough to walk on the water. Remember, at this time, Jesus was not revealed to them as the Messiah.

I was talking to the Lord a few days ago on this subject, as this came up in another thread.

This is what came to my mind.
'Once a person recieves Jesus as Lord, you become like seeds, and God sets you in a pot with potting soil. The potting soil is the scripture. You feed on this until you are mature enough to be planted into the garden of the Holy Spirit.'

I have been thinking about this at length, and the more i did the more perfect it fit.

A gardener would have his plants in a nursery. And as the Lord said, once mature enough, the gardener would gently talk the plant from the pot, and include all the old soil into the hole dug for it into the garden.

In the scripture the Gospel of John 16:7 Jesus states " still, I must tell you the truth it is for your own good that I am going because unless I go The Advocate will not come to you but if I go I will send him to you."

And again in the Gospel of John 16:12 Jesus says " I still have many things to say to you but they would be too much for you now. But when the spirit of truth comes he will lead you to complete truth"

So we can see clearly that Jesus himself tells us that not everything is in the scripture, and that the scripture itself is the potting soil to get us going on the right Road. As Jesus states he is the "Cornerstone." And all the scripture is the foundation. But we are the ones who have to grow in the Lord, and to strive to be the best that we can be in the Lord.

 

[Brad Huber]

Thats why scripture is compared to milk and that when we mature, we go on to more mature things, like faith, and trust in the Holy Spirit. He also says the 3 greatest thing that "we" are to increase in our lives is Faith, hope, and love. But so many christians want to drink milk only, because the meat scares them. They are afraid that the meat is tinged with the poison of false teaching, and so avoid the meat, staying on the milk and never mature in the greater things. But if you go slowly into the meat diet, without asking other people for assistance, the Holy Spirit will guide them as promised, and a steady prayer of helping them to discern what is good meat and what is not, but most just say, "Forget that, give me milk, milk is all I need."

 

[Bill]

I do not want to seem like i am coming down on peoples faith here. I understand full well the confirmation based faith has gone on for a good 30 plus years.

This thred came about when another person spoke of a spiritual experience they had in the Lord. Now the Holy Spirit confirmed in me, this was from the Lord. But another stated, where is that found in scripture? And it is something that was not.

Here again, my arguement, Use the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I think a bigger problem that comes from confirmation based thinking. People do not know how to recognize the movement of the Spirit when it happens.

How many here could say, without a doubt, i know when the Spirit moves in me?

 

[Dave M]

My question to anyone is do you consider scripture the final authority on ALL spiritual matters, ?

 

[Brad Huber]

My question to anyone is do you consider scripture the final authority on ALL spiritual matters, ?

If the leading goes against scripture, then it would be wise to stick to what scripture says, but that being said, people can twist scripture to fit their ideas of what christianity should be, and refuse any leading from the Holy Spirit on the interpretation of what scripture means. Jesus often had to show the pharisees the meaning behind scripture, because they refused to see the truth unless it fit their idea of what scripture is as properly interpreted. They "resisted" the Holy Spirit, thats what I am pointing out.

 

[Bill]

My question to anyone is do you consider scripture the final authority on ALL spiritual matters, ?

Jesus is the final authority. But as Jesus Himself states, He could not share with anyone at that time, as no one was ready for it.

It is because of this, that it is so important to understand the gifts of the Spirit or at least be able to recognize them

 

[Dave M]

The Holy Spirit and the word of God are all one, the Holy spirit will reveal the word of God to you, no one can understand the meaning of the word of God with out the Holy spirit. People will not understand God is Jesus in the flesh with out the Holy spirit revealing it to them, man can not understand this.

John 15:26 ​

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Matthew 13:34-35​

All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

The Holy spirit and the word of God go together they are one, the word of God is a living authority of all spiritual matters that you can only understand with the Holy spirit reveling it, they are one, they will never conflict, one is not MORE complete then the other.

 

[Bill]

The Holy Spirit and the word of God are all one, the Holy spirit will reveal the word of God to you, no one can understand the meaning of the word of God with out the Holy spirit. People will not understand God is Jesus in the flesh with out the Holy spirit revealing it to them, man can not understand this.

John 15:26 ​

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Matthew 13:34-35​

All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

The Holy spirit and the word of God go together they are one, the word of God is a living authority of all spiritual matters that you can only understand with the Holy spirit reveling it, they are one, they will never conflict, one is not MORE complete then the other.

David, you are correct to say, the Holy Spirit will reveal all that is hidden in the scripture. But it was Jesus who also said, "I still have many things to say". So we can see, even though the Holy Spirit will reveal all that was already said, that there is still more Jesus wants to tell us. And Jesus stated that we will learn from the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bill]

The Holy Spirit and the word of God are all one, the Holy spirit will reveal the word of God to you, no one can understand the meaning of the word of God with out the Holy spirit. People will not understand God is Jesus in the flesh with out the Holy spirit revealing it to them, man can not understand this.

John 15:26 ​

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

Matthew 13:34-35​

All these things Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without a parable. This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world.”

The Holy spirit and the word of God go together they are one, the word of God is a living authority of all spiritual matters that you can only understand with the Holy spirit reveling it, they are one, they will never conflict, one is not MORE complete then the other.

My friend, the Holy Spirit would reveal to you who i am if you would only accept it.

At this point you continue to fight the Holy Spirit. But i can understand. It is a lot to ask from anyone.

There are prophecies and events that will come soon enough, and you will have no more doubts.

 

[Hekuran]

My friend, the Holy Spirit would reveal to you who i am if you would only accept it.

At this point you continue to fight the Holy Spirit. But i can understand. It is a lot to ask from anyone.

There are prophecies and events that will come soon enough, and you will have no more doubts.

And here's the problem, Bill. You urge people to follow the leading and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. But you also want to be a spokesperson and tell us what the Spirit is saying.

As I mature in faith, I learn to hear the Spirit's prompting. But I don't know who you are, and I don't have any special reason to trust what you say above anybody else.

Who is to say that you hear the voice of the Spirit more clearly than anyone else in this forum?

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 22:18; I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book;
Rev 22:19; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

Psa 118:8; It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man.

John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

 

[B-A-C]

There are prophecies and events that will come soon enough, and you will have no more doubts.

Anyone can say this. Do you have a specific example?

Deut 18:19; 'It shall come about that whoever will not listen to My words which he shall speak in My name, I Myself will require it of him.
Deut 18:20; 'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'
Deut 18:21; "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'
Deut 18:22; "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.

2Cor 10:12; For we are not bold to class or compare ourselves with some of those who commend themselves; but when they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are without understanding.

Acts 17:10; The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Acts 17:11; Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

2Tim 3:16; All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
2Tim 3:17; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Luke 8:9; His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:10; And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.
Luke 8:11; "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
Luke 8:12; "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.
Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.
Luke 8:15; "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

Nothing here about being transplanted after you receive the word.

 

[B-A-C]

Signs of a true prophet.

Numb 16:28; Moses said, "By this you shall know that the LORD has sent me to do all these deeds; for this is not my doing.
Numb 16:29; "If these men die the death of all men or if they suffer the fate of all men, then the LORD has not sent me.
Numb 16:30; "But if the LORD brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the LORD."
Numb 16:31; As he finished speaking all these words, the ground that was under them split open;

Moses didn't just go around telling people he was a prophet. He had evidence to back it up.

How about Elijah?

2Kings 1:10; Elijah replied to the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty.

1Kings 18:23; "Now let them give us two oxen; and let them choose one ox for themselves and cut it up, and place it on the wood, but put no fire under it; and I will prepare the other ox and lay it on the wood, and I will not put a fire under it.
1Kings 18:24; "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the LORD, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people said, "That is a good idea."
1Kings 18:25; So Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose one ox for yourselves and prepare it first for you are many, and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it."

How about Joshua?

Josh 3:6; And Joshua spoke to the priests, saying, "Take up the ark of the covenant and cross over ahead of the people." So they took up the ark of the covenant and went ahead of the people.
Josh 3:7; Now the LORD said to Joshua, "This day I will begin to exalt you in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that just as I have been with Moses, I will be with you.
Josh 3:8; "You shall, moreover, command the priests who are carrying the ark of the covenant, saying, 'When you come to the edge of the waters of the Jordan, you shall stand still in the Jordan.'"
Josh 3:9; Then Joshua said to the sons of Israel, "Come here, and hear the words of the LORD your God."
Josh 3:10; Joshua said, "By this you shall know that the living God is among you, and that He will assuredly dispossess from before you the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Hivite, the Perizzite, the Girgashite, the Amorite, and the Jebusite.

God was with David when he fought Goliath. He was with Daniel in the lion's den. He was with Meshach, Shadrach and Abednigo in the furnace. He was with Samson when he brought down the building full of Philistines.
Elisha told Namaan to go dip himself in the Jordan seven times, and what happened? ... the thing is. Anyone can say they are a prophet of God. But normally God gives proof. If you're going to tell people you are a prophet.
Where is your proof?

Even Jesus gave proof.

Matt 9:5; "Which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, and walk'?
Matt 9:6; "But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"—then He *said to the paralytic, "Get up, pick up your bed and go home."
Matt 9:7; And he got up and went home.

 

[B-A-C]

When the two witnesses appear. They will have proof. There will be signs.

Rev 11:3; "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
Rev 11:4; These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5; And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.
Rev 11:6; These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
Rev 11:7; When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Rev 11:8; And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

God grants His authority to them for 3 1/2 years ( 1,260 days ). They have the power to kill people with fire from their mouth. They have the power to stop the rain and call down plagues.
But after 3 1/2 years they will die in Jerusalem.

Psa 1:1; How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
Psa 1:2; But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.
Psa 1:3; He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

No need for transplanting.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

No transplanting here. Once you're cut down....

 

[Dave M]

My friend, the Holy Spirit would reveal to you who i am if you would only accept it.

buddy why are you so concerned of who I think you are???

the Holy spirit has reveled to me the things about you I need to know,, my friend know you are in my prayers.

Jesus is my King my Lord and savior, why do you want to exalt yourself so much?? Jesus is who I must know


Psa 118:8; It is better to take refuge in the LORD than to trust in man.

 

[Bill]

When the two witnesses appear. They will have proof. There will be signs.

Rev 11:3; "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth."
Rev 11:4; These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5; And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way.
Rev 11:6; These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
Rev 11:7; When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Rev 11:8; And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

God grants His authority to them for 3 1/2 years ( 1,260 days ). They have the power to kill people with fire from their mouth. They have the power to stop the rain and call down plagues.
But after 3 1/2 years they will die in Jerusalem.

Psa 1:1; How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers!
Psa 1:2; But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.
Psa 1:3; He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

No need for transplanting.

Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 13:7; "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
Luke 13:8; "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
Luke 13:9; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

No transplanting here. Once you're cut down....

May the Lord's peace be always with us.

Doesn't scripture tell us to trust in the Holy Spirit. To understand the Spirit's Discernment.

I have spoken openly of things to come. Even to Mr David. Lol.

Shall i repeat a few.

Lol, it does not matter. You will still not believe, even when they do take place.

Just like when the "Rapture" does not happen, there will be all manner of excuses as to why it did not happen. And then people will keep pushing back when it will. Lol

Even when i walk in Jerusalem, you will say. That wasn't Bill who was with us in Talk Jesus.

Silly people, just like the Israelites of old. God will lead you out into the desert, and remove all that stands between you and Him. Your houses, your gold all you have will be stripped away. And you will find true joy and true faith. As you will learn to rely soley on your Lord.

 

[Bill]

buddy why are you so concerned of who I think you are???

the Holy spirit has reveled to me the things about you I need to know,, my freind know you are in mt prayers.

Jesus is my King mt Lord and savior, why do you want to exalt yourself so much?? Jesus is who I must know


Psa 118:8; It is better to take refuge in the LORD Than to trust in man.

My brother, it is a lonely path i walk. There are only a few to share with. I thought maybe you would be one.

 

[Dave M]

My brother, it is a lonely path i walk. There are only a few to share with. I thought maybe you would be one.

we are all brothers in Christ Jesus, fellowship is part of growing in the spirit, my walk seems to grow with the more fellowship I engage in. When I first came to Christ I was a lonely shallow know it all, once i got engaged in serving others and being around other Holy spirit full people is when I really started to grow.. On line is ok for fellowship, but the real thing is much better and second to none and will help us all mature, maturing is something that we will always do.
Bless you Bill

 

[Bill]

we are all brothers in Christ Jesus, fellowship is part of growing in the spirit, my walk seems to grow with the more fellowship I engage in. When I first came to Christ I was a lonely shallow know it all, once i got engaged in serving others and being around other Holy spirit full people is when I really started to grow.. On line is ok for fellowship, but the real thing is much better and second to non and will help us all mature, maturing is something that we will always do.
Bless you Bill

That's not what I was talking about, it's the lonely path of the prophet.

It's difficult for others to understand unless you walk the path.

 

[Dave M]

That's not what I was talking about, it's the lonely path of the prophet.

It's difficult for others to understand unless you walk the path.

do you not consider those in Christ worthy of fellowship, surely you do. Are not those in Christ filled with the Holy spirit.

God made us to be in fellowship , that includes all in Christ,, sorry you feel lonely...... you will be in my prayers.

these two versus come to mind

1 John 1:7​

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:3​

That which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.