Heavy metal music is wrong

[AudreyNicole]

Continuing on (red are my words, blue are yours):




The Bible tells us...
2 Cor. 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, "
Not only do we "touch" it, we "honor" them by singing their songs.

Again, to him who considers it to be unclean, to him it is unclean. I prayed about it, God told me it wasn’t unclean, therefore, I don’t consider it unclean.

1 Cor. 14:15 "I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also."

Bible says to sing… doesn’t say which genre, doesn’t mention a rhythm-melody ratio, doesn’t say a heavy beat is wrong… just says to sing spiritually and with understanding, and I just happen to sing rock!

Christian music is not entertainment (I know this is unpopular but it is true). Christian music is spiritual "food". Real Christian music admonishes, while praising the Lord. It is not for evangelism either!

To say that having Christian messages within non-Christian based music is okay because you can bring people to Christianity through it very wrong. Not only because it cannot be combined (the Flesh and the Spirit), but because Christian music is not meant to be used for evangelism, but for the Christian community and the Praise towards God! We are to Preach to the lost, not lure them in with "feel-good" corrupt Christian music, which shouldn't be for them anyway!

Well I don’t use it for evangelism; I use it to praise God! But I know people who were brought to Christ through this music. What are you going to say to them? “You’re not really saved because you listened to that music!” Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4.

Colossians 3:16 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the LORD"

“Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the LORD”… No mention of beats, no mention of rhythm, no mention of melody… but songs, which include all three. Again, He doesn’t say, “the less the beat the more holy it is”, or, “the more the melody the more holy”. The Bible simply says songs. He doesn’t specify the rhythm-melody-harmony ratio. Just says “songs”, which includes all three. Rock/heavy metal includes all three, therefore, by your own definition, it qualifies as song.

Ephesians 5:19 "Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the LORD;"

Again, He mentions melody (last), but also “hymns and spiritual songs, singing”. Don’t forget the rest of what the verse includes. It says “song and singing”. Rock/heavy metal includes all three components of a song, therefore it qualifies as song. And it has singing, therefore it qualifies as singing.

1 Cor. 1:21 "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of Preaching to save them that believe."

"Music is NEVER used in Scripture as a means of reaching the lost." (Tim Fisher, The Battle for Christian Music, p.155)

Again, I use it to praise God! And if someone is introduced to Christ in the process, Praise God!

Christian music should emphasis and praise the Lord, not the music nor the musician!
Psalm 66:2 "Sing forth the honour of his name: make his praise glorious."

You cannot sing to "please men" and sing unto the Lord. It's one or the other!

Well, personally, I sing unto the Lord. I’ve never actually sung to anyone other than Him. And the bands I listen to also sing unto the Lord. A lot of their testimony says they really don’t care what anyone thinks of their music because it is not about pleasing man, but pleasing God. They don’t care about what the world says about their music, and they don’t care about what the church says about their music, because again, it’s not about pleasing men, but pleasing God. Kind of like how I don’t care about what you say about this music because again, I’m not trying to please men, but pleasing GOD!

Galatians 1:10 "For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ."

I don’t care what men think of my music. I don’t care if they like it or not. I don’t care if they think it wrong or not. All I care is that I glorify God with it… and again, I am convinced that I do, as are the bands I listen to.

When Christian musicians get too caught up with their music and just the "right-sound" they lose the plot! When it is more of a "performance" rather than a Christian message it has lost its Christian purpose and is fruitless. Unless you are not a Christian, then it is supplying your worldly/ fleshly needs.

Hmmm…. Well I can’t say I perform for people either. I just sing unto God. And I know it doesn’t have to sound just right (meaning it can be heavy on rhythm, or lost in melody) as long as it glorifies God.

Anyway, don’t these statements cancel each other out:
“Christian musicians get too caught up with their music and just the "right-sound" they lose the plot” : “True godly music will be composed of three elements - all in perfect balance.”

According to your statement, we should be more focused on God then creating the “perfect balance”. But the second says we ought to focus on creating the perfect balance. Confusing... but I’m gonna say they cancel each other out… Ergo, if it has too much rhythm, oh well! Doesn’t need to be perfect as long as it glorifies God.

 

[AudreyNicole]

Continuing on (red are my words, blue are yours):




Music like metal, rock and all that have that driving beat are of the Flesh. That is why the world loves it, and what the world loves is not of God as it is against Him. The world does not love holy, spiritual things...

So anything the world loves is bad? The world loves singing… does that make it bad? Your argument here is fatally flawed (unless you think we shouldn’t sing because the world loves it). The problem with the world is not what they consume, as nothing is inherently unclean (there is nothing unclean of itself Romans 14:14), but what they produce. Again, it’s not what goes in a man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him.

The world loves dogs, the world loves cookies, the world loves flowers, the world loves playing stringed instruments, the world loves reading, the world loves flying kites, the world loves riding bikes… get the point? It’s not what goes in a man, but what comes out of a man.

1 Corinthians. 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Well if you’re implying that I am a natural man, I would say, “Who are you to judge anothers' servant?” I don’t quite understand what this says about God’s opinion on heavy metal though.

"When Christian music carries the beat, instrumentation, and exact sounds of the lost crowd, it results in confusion and shame... It is shameful to use musicians who in shallow songs daze instead of praise, who entertain instead of train... They transfer the worship owed to Christ to 'concert hopping', money-hungry entertainers who have never left, the world far enough behind to stop sounding like it..."(Shame, a tract by Dr. Hal Webb, pp. 2,4,6)

Another of man’s infamous opinion. Here’s mine:

“Christian heavy metal and rock music carries a lovely beat, beautiful instrumentation, incredible sounds, and it results in me joy, peace, awe, and love... I listen to musicians who sing in praise, and worship... They transfer the beauty of Christ through their music to my ears and their sound moves the Spirit within me...” (AudreyNicole, My Life and Times Guided by God)

"Its admirers want to make rock appealing by making it respectable. The thing can’t be done. Rock is appealing because it’s vulgar, . . Rock is the quintessence of vulgarity. It's crude, loud, and tasteless." (Pattison, Robert, The Triumph of Vulgarity, 1987, preface, p.4)


Ooh, another man’s opinion. I’m sure I don’t have to repeat mine. Or maybe I do:
“Good Christian heavy metal is full of passion, praise, and worship!” (AudreyNicole, The Triumph of Christ!)

An anonymous testimony from someone on other site (can't link)..

"When I got saved, I loved rock 'n' roll. Nothing – but nothing, was more important to me than rock music!. I played rock guitar – day and night! I did not have a dream or goal besides rock music. And when I got saved July, 30, 1975, at 20 years old, I had NO intention to stop listening and playing rock music. But something changed. . .

I didn't know it then — but "old things are passed away; behold, all things are become New" and that included my music!

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become NEW. 2 Corinthians 5:17

I didn't change intentionally — but within six months, the ONLY music I wanted to listen to and play was real Christian Music. Music that praised my Lord and Savior! My desire and love for rock music was replaced by a NEW SONG — even PRAISE unto our God!
Just as 2 Corinthians 5:17 says (and God cannot LIE - Titus 1:2) "all things are become NEW" and the very FIRST thing God "makes new" is a NEW SONG!

After someone trusts Jesus Christ, according to the Word of God, God gives that person a "NEW song" — and notice that NEW SONG is — "PRAISE unto our God". And also notice — "he has put" — God did it. If someone does NOT have a NEW SONG chances are they're not even saved! All things are become NE especially your music! "

Cool testimony. I have one too that deals with music, and yes, I listen to new heavy metal bands now that I am saved. Ones that worship and praise the Lord!
But here’s another one:

"My name is Pastor Joseph F. Amaral, and I am the Senior Pastor of Sherwood Heights Community Church in Oakville, Ontario, Canada. I am a strong believer in Christian Metal Ministry. Stryper was the first Christian band I ever heard. A friend of mine told me about them, then a few days later I saw their "Soldiers Under Command" video on our local music station, (Much Music). I was very impressed by the music and I found the lyrics very interesting. I bought the "Soldiers" album and when I got to the song, "The Rock That Makes Me Roll", the Holy Spirit took hold of my heart and the conviction and power of the Spirit was so heavy on that album that I gave my life to Jesus!!!
I have had the privelage of seeing Stryper twice, once in Buffalo and once in Toronto. The shows were absolutely incredible, not only did Stryper rock, but the presence of God was so sweet and so evident. I am personally grateful to the Lord for the dedicated ministry of Stryper. I know that I am not the only one whose life was changed as a result of their faithfulness to Christ. I have nothing but good things to say about them. I wish them God's richest blessing on them and their families. As a result of their ministry, I am now a minister leading others to Christ."


I have ton’s of great testimonies from great metal heads and rockers alike. Again, it is a personal opinion, decision, relationship, and choice led by the Spirit in each individual. To him who regards it unlean, to him it is unclean. But to him who regards it as clean, to him it is clean. (Romans 14). Testimonies are each different, each unique, and each special because it is about a personal relationship with Christ, not a group relationship. Therefore, we really cannot base truth off of testimony. We ought to instead look to God and His word.

Psalm 144:9 "I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee."


I’ve been singing news songs unto Him since I’ve been saved… new rock songs, along with others. I don’t even listen to secular music anymore, just Godly music!



*Note: All opinions I presented are mine and are just as “good” as all the other opinions you provided because there are no "elites" in Christ's kingdom, whether from distinctions of knowledge, wealth, power, office, or anything else. All are one in Christ. I am by no means trying to use my opinion to influence others. I simply provided them to counteract the proliferation of other peoples’ opinions posted here. We ought to each go to God for truth not man.



Conclusion:

1) There is no verse where God specifically condemns “rhythm” or “beat”. He simply says song and sing. Not all translations use the word melody… so that is simply an interpretation issue.

2) Heavy metal is comprised of harmony, melody, and rhythm, therefore, by definition it qualifies as a song. It may have an emphasis on rhythm and beat, but again, nowhere in the Bible does God condemn “rhythm” or “beat”, nor does He give a rhythm-melody-harmony ratio. He simply says, “song” which is made up of all three however one chooses to put them together.

3) Since God says to worship in song, and heavy metal is song, we can conclude that we can worship in heavy metal or any other variation of harmony, melody, and rhythm.

 

[AudreyNicole]

Basically, here's what I take from futile arguments like these. It is not a salvation issue. No saved person will go to hell for listening to heavy metal. Therefore listen all you want if it helps you glorify God. If it doesn't help you glorify God, then don't listen to it.

Read Romans 14.

From Coffman Commentaries on Romans 14:

The sacred fellowship of Christians must not be broken over differences of opinion regarding things indifferent or secondary. Christ has received all Christians, and the least they can do is to receive each other. How utterly unlike Christ is the bitter and vindictive rejection of a brother in Christ over things involving his conscience!

Every brother should be received, but in such a way as not to make petty scruples the rule of the congregation, and not for the purpose of disputing with him concerning those scruples ("not for doubtful disputations" as some translate), and not for the purpose of subjecting the brother to any pressure with regard to changing his scruples. He should be accepted, and loved, scruples and all!

Let not him that eateth set at naught him that eateth not; and let not him that eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

What a natural thing it was for the Christian of strong faith to set a low value upon a brother with all those silly scruples! How easy it was for the scrupulous to judge others as "liberal" and condemn them for not accepting the more strict behavior! With some Christians thus tempted to set at naught some of their brethren, and others tempted to judge their brethren, the holy fellowship was in danger of being ruptured; and Paul moved to prevent yielding to either temptation upon the consideration that God had received both classes.

Any question arising from the scruples people observe in their private lives, and not resulting in the violation of Christ's commandments, is by such definition secondary and of minor importance.

Who art thou that judgest the servant of another? to his own lord he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be made to stand; for the Lord hath power to make him stand.

The presumption of one Christian judging another overlooks the fact that God judges all, a prerogative categorically withheld from mortal, fallible men, and wisely so. No man is capable of accurate judgment, in things pertaining either to himself or to his fellow Christians; and nothing is quite so detrimental to Christian fellowship as a censorious and condemnatory attitude displayed within the family of the redeemed. Judging the conduct of other Christians is a subject of such universal concern within the church that the collateral scriptures applicable to this question should be remembered here.

He that speaketh against a brother, or judgeth his brother, speaketh against the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judgest the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. Only one is the lawgiver and judge, even he who is able to save and to destroy: but who art thou that judgest thy neighbor? (James 4:11,12)

"Another man's servant" is an appeal to an earthly situation in which one does not meddle in the business of judging the servants of other people; and thus, how much more appropriate it is for Christians to refrain from judging the servants of the Lord? The power of the Lord to make a man stand, despite his errors, is seen in the strength of believers to remain faithful to the church, a strength which comes only from the Lord, and a strength which exists in some instances coupled with all kinds of weakness, errors, and even sins.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind.

"Let each man be fully assured in his own mind" is an appeal for conscientious conduct on the part of every Christian. Although the word "conscience" does not appear in this chapter, it is nevertheless, in a sense, the subject of it, a subject of surpassing importance to every child of God.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto tke Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Godet's sharp comment on this is:

"The apostle states the reason why the two lines of conduct are equally admissible. It is because, opposed as they are, they are inspired by one and the same desire, that of serving the Lord."
​

It might be added that both lines of behavior were followed in good conscience, and also that this establishes the principle that sincere and conscientious behavior on the part of Christians (in all matters indifferent) is of greater importance than correctness in all opinions held. No man may actually suppose that all of his opinions are accurate; but any Christian may walk before the Lord in purity of intention and conscience. One of the glorious facts of Christian service is that God judges Christians with more regard to their sincere purpose than with reference to the degree of perfection in their attainment.

For none of us liveth to himself, and none dieth to himself.

In a sense, every man is his brother's keeper, a responsibility denied by Cain, and by many others in all generations; but that is not the principal idea of this verse, which is explained in the verse following.

Paul meant here that whatever a man does, or however he lives, it is his relationship to the Lord that determines all. Not merely such things as eating, not eating, observing days, or not observing days, but life itself is sustained in a holy sense of belonging, not to one's self, but to the Lord.

Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge ye this rather, that no man put a stumbling block in his brother's way, or an occasion of falling.

In this, and to the end of the chapter, Paul spoke of the proper use of Christian liberty. Having shown that it is sinful to judge fellow Christians concerning things immaterial and unessential, he proceeded to show how the governing principle in such forbearance is that of love for men who are beneficiaries of the blood of Christ, who have been redeemed from sin and made to stand in the body of Christ himself.

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself: save to him who accounteth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

**See under Rom. 14:2 and Rom. 14:5, regarding clean meats and the power of conscience to make even an innocent action wrong.**

Macknight's paraphrase of this verse is:]

I know by the light of reason, and am persuaded by revelation from the Lord Jesus, that there is no kind of meat unclean naturally. Nevertheless, to him that believeth certain kinds to be unclean, to that man they are unclean; and he will sin if he eat them, either to indulge his own taste or to gain the favor of others.
​

"Destroy not with thy meat him for whom Christ died" shows the fruit of a loveless attitude. It will destroy a fellow child of God.

"Destroy" in this place is therefore synonymous with "perish" in the admonition to Corinth. These warnings teach emphatically that a brother's soul may be lost because of a loveless attitude on the part of some "strong" Christian, who by such lovelessness himself incurs the penalty of sinning "against Christ."

Let not your good be evil spoken of: for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

The sin against Christ through lovelessness among Christians is an evil that reaches far beyond the congregation itself, bringing into dishonor and ineffectiveness the missionary outreach of the church, and actually resulting in blasphemy of outsiders against the Christian message. "Your" in this verse is plural, contrasting with the singular pronoun in Rom. 14:15, and indicates that Paul here shifted the thought away from the individual consequences of setting at naught and judging the ,brethren and directed it to a consideration of the harm to the entire church which resulted from such violations of the principle of unity and love. When Christians are divided and viciously attack each other over such things as clothing, music, hair styles, dietary habits, etc., outsiders certainly make sport of their Christianity, the Christians themselves furnishing the basis of their deprecations, and thus becoming the principal hindrance of their missionary impact upon their community. (I've seen many an unbeliever walk away because of such harsh, loveless, judgmental attitudes against non-essential secondary topics. We are to build up the church, not harm it through useless quarrels).

So then let us follow after things which make for peace, and things whereby we may edify one another.

The admonition of these words demands that a true Christian follow a constructive program of doing the things that produce harmony, induce fellowship, and lead to fuller appreciation and love among the brethren. Again from Murray,

The practical rule applied here is that when anything is morally indifferent to me, before I act on the conviction, I must ask how such action will affect the peace of the church, and the Christian growth of others.

​

Instead of channeling all his activities along the lines of what is personally pleasing to himself, the genuine Christian must so order his behavior as to make it a constructive and positive force of building love and harmony within the sacred body of the church, consciously directing all of his words and deeds to that end.

R. C. Bell had the following pertinent remarks:

Who can read this chapter without realizing that Christian doctrines are of unequal value, and that big and little things should never exchange places? Men must not make things tests of fellowship which God does not make conditions of salvation; because, in so doing, they reject those whom God receives and make divisions in the church over trifles. To separate believers from unbelievers is right, but to separate believers from other believers is wrong. Blessed is the Christian who keeps Christian things in Christian proportions.
​

The main point is, if you can listen to heavy metal and through the Spirit grow closer to the Lord, then go ahead and listen to it.

If you find heavy metal to be unclean and it harms your walk with God, then stay away from it. Those of us who listen to it and like it, also must be sure to keep it away from our brothers and sisters who don't like it, so as we don't cause them to stumble.

But the most important part is that we mustn't judge any brother based on our own opinions; and we mustn't let such small, insignificant trifles separate the body in any way. It is up to each of use to seek out the Lord on this matter in prayer and devotion. And each of use will come up with our own opinions and interpretations of what He says.

I hope no one thinks I am trying to be quarrelsome or obstinate. Quite the contrary, I am simply trying to "bridge the gap" between Christians who think heavy metal to be unclean and Christians who don't. It is such a division in the church and it breaks my heart because I love and respect the music choices of every brother and sister, and I suppose I just wish I could find the same love a respect from my brothers and sisters in Christ. So often I feel condemned, disregarded, and even hated by the church because of this one little topic... and I've seen so many walk away from the faith because of this, because of the division. It is just terrible, but the thing that keeps me hopeful is the knowledge I have in Christ. I like heavy metal, and I use it to glorify God, and I know the good fruits it produces in me and the joy I find through the Spirit in it, so I am convinced it is not unclean. But I love any and every type of music that glorifies God.

It's not that I think all Christians should listen to heavy metal. In fact most probably shouldn't because it probably won't help most. But those that do listen to it must listen to glorify God and must be fruitful.... it is not what enters that is unclean, but what comes out of a man. And as long as the motives and desires are right, and as long as the fruit is pure, there is no problem.

And those of you who don't like heavy metal, and think it is unclean, I am so happy that you are convinced in your own mind, and I am so grateful that you are using your choice to glorify God. Because, after all, that's what counts right? Indeed! To God be the glory!

In Christ,

 

[Fraction]

Audrey I would like to ask for your opinion on something. I am wondering myself what other Christians think about it. This whole post you have been directing your points at "Christian music". I don't know very many bands or artists in this section, so I can't list any sorry lol. However I would like to ask you this, what about music that does not talk about God?

I listen to a lot of music. Most of it is not directed towards faith. I usually have no issue with it, and it does not jump in and attack my faith. When I feel that it does, I stray away from it. I just wanna know what you think about bands or artists that sing about other things. I would like to point out that we can exclude bands that directly attack faith. We all can agree that, that is dangerous material. Thanks

 

[AudreyNicole]

Audrey I would like to ask for your opinion on something. I am wondering myself what other Christians think about it. This whole post you have been directing your points at "Christian music". I don't know very many bands or artists in this section, so I can't list any sorry lol. However I would like to ask you this, what about music that does not talk about God?

I listen to a lot of music. Most of it is not directed towards faith. I usually have no issue with it, and it does not jump in and attack my faith. When I feel that it does, I stray away from it. I just wanna know what you think about bands or artists that sing about other things. I would like to point out that we can exclude bands that directly attack faith. We all can agree that, that is dangerous material. Thanks

Well most secular music I find pretty disturbing. I'll turn on the radio and it amazes me the things allowed in open air media these days. If I had kids I would never let them listen to such nonsense. Even radio Disney is horrible (its bad enough we have adults singing about lust, much less children).

But I do listen to some secular music. Lets see... I'll list a few of my favorite artists/bands:

Josh Groban
George Straight
Alan Jackson
Alison Krauss (folk)
Union Station (folk)
Anberlin (rock)
The Andrews Sisters (jazz)
Artie Shaw and Orchestra (jazz)
Jamie O'Neal (country)
Kellie Pickler (country)
Norah Jones (vocal jazz, blues)
Jessica Andrews (country)
The Shins (indie)
Seal! (alternative, pop)
Sarah Evans (country)
Red (rock)
Rascal Flatts
Nat King Cole
Michael Buble
Frank Sinatra
Melody Gardot (smooth jazz)
Diana Krall (jazz)
Death Cab for Cutie (indie)
Duke Ellington
Dierks Bentley
El Ten Eleven (instrumental, electronica)
A Fine Frenzy (folk)
Iron and Wine (folk)
Glenn Miller
Imogen Heap (trip hop, electronica)
Mark Pinkus (classical pianist)
Owl City (electronica)
Bing Crosby
Chris Botti
Dean Martin

The way I see secular music is that it may not help your walk with God, but as long as it doesn't hurt it, you're good. Music has a way of making you feel good, and there will always be a fleshly aspect to enjoying music, but as long as it doesn't take away from your Spiritual life it's OK. I see music as one of the many blessings of life that God gave us to enjoy... like flowers, and puppies And as you can see, I love every type of music.

Sometimes I'll listen to classical or what I call "chill" (no lyrics just instrument) when I'm reading the Bible. In that way I suppose it can be helping my Spiritual walk. But I don't think Chris Botti does much to help my walk... but he doesn't hurt it, that's the key.

Since being saved, though, I really find God in every aspect of life, including "meaningless" songs. He's always on my mind, even through those trivial aspects, and I think that's what matters.

 

[CherryFizzle]

CF I didn't google anything, that is just an assumption on your part. I actually have some books concerning Israeli/Jewish history and culture, Cyclopedias, and several Hebrew Lexicons.

The toph was an instrument adopted by Israel from the Egyptians and is considered by many bible scholars to be a hand drum. The metseleth is the Hebrew word for "cymbals".

[I already posted this, so I don't know where my post went or what went wrong exactly :s ]

Re-writing this is annoying but nevermind

I only assumed you "googled" it as it looked like a "copy & paste" job. Forgive me if it is not so, I should not of followed suit and made any assumptions myself, so I apologize.
You do seem to single me out (I'm not sure why exactly :s) The unnecessary assumption about my understanding of Jewish culture and the language, which is a part of my family, admittedly did cause offense to me.

If you want to believe the timbrel is a drum, go for it! "Many bible scholars believe it is a hand drum", and many don't. Many bible scholars believe Jesus was just a mere man, does that make them right? (rhetorical question here)
Cyclopedias and books have lots of errors in them (not attacking your books in particular) for various reasons, some of mine as well.

Whether it was adopted from Egypt or not (as it is only speculated to have been adopted from Egypt, but I agree, as I think it makes sense that it was) doesn't really matter as there are many similar instruments that originate from all over the world.
The timbrel was just a hooped/looped instrument with a row of small cymbals attached (much like the finger cymbals). They were to be tapped and shaken, and were mostly used by women when dancing in celebration.
Many don't even consider the tambourine the same instrument as the timbrel due to an additional row of cymbals (and in some cases an added "drumhead"), and that "tambourine" is the adopted English name from the Persian instrument name.

metseleth is a double cymbal yes...I'm not sure why you mention that. :s
tseltsala is Hebrew for cymbal, "tsel" being the root word for the cymbal instrument family. Which people also look up and find as the word for "shadow". You need to study Hebrew carefully as these things come up (not you personally, just anyone in general). People can misunderstand things easily, especially if they rely solely on things like Strongs Hebrew Dictonary or Merriam Webster's dictionary... Not that I am discrediting them, its just not always the best resource, or informative enough.

Anyway, like I said you can believe whatever you like, I'm certainly not the authority on your opinion! haha I just think you shouldn't just through a quick dictionary definition out there and claim it as fact.

God Bless

 

[Brother Mike]

Jiggyfly single out??

You do seem to single me out (I'm not sure why exactly :s)

Umm.. Glad to see I am not alone..........

Mike.

 

[Trancend]

Heavy Metal Music

Perhaps one would consider why they like listening to Heavy Metal Music.

What are the lyrics saying and who is listening to them.

Is it the holy spirit within, or an egoistic angry desire within that is looking to be fed.

Its not that we should all be listening to Greatest Harpist hits, but what does the music make me feel like.

 

[Plinshree]

"Is it the holy spirit within, or an egoistic angry desire within that is looking to be fed."

If it isn't hurting anyone in doing so then sometimes it's good to vent an egoistic, angry desire in private, through music.

Suppression leads to more trouble and is, ultimately , not healthy.

 

[emmabnormal]

You can't just pick out a type of music and say it is wrong. It depends on the individual song; an entire style of music cannot be just plain "wrong."

I am a huge heavy metal fan, and a Christian. I'm not talking about that screamo crap you sometimes here; I mean REAL heavy metal (Ozzy, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest.) Are some of their songs a bit dark? Sure. Satanic? Not so much. I agree that many so-called "heavy metal" bands are wrong, and some truly are Satanic. But that doesnt mean every heavy metal band is like that.

Educate yourself before making a stereotype, please.

I agree with this statement, not all metal is satanic and not all the people that play the music is evil
The music may sound evil but, I recon some people just really like the genre of music not everyone who listens to it is evil.
and I don't believe just becuase you are a christian that you should have to restrict yourself to a type of music, becuase although we are of the world but not part of the world I can't remember the quote but, if we don't go into these sub cultures and block ourself off from it in our own little God bubble then these people are never going to see God at work.
Now I don't claim to be perfect because, yes we all sin an not sin is to big in Gods eyes but, I generally don't bother often and I don't like church very much and I hardly read the bible now I still sometimes think i should but I don't.
But, it isn't good to trap yourself from these people.

and a lot of the time the music doesn't have evil messages, they have swearing in but, most music is the same. Why should you lot steryotype people with long hair band tops and Love this type of music as evil when theres people walkign around that listen to rap. Rap is usually about killing people, sex and money.
I listen to a lot of rap as well and dub.

and theres pop music, that is usually about sex money and being 'bad' so you might think its wrong to listen to metal, and I know that psychologyically listeing to that type of music makes you more depressed but, its gives pretty musc same kind of message club music gives you.
I go to clubs with typical 'club music' and metal clubs with typical 'heavy metal' its exactly the same just the metal has talent and instruments instead of tuned voices and fake instruments.

Yes an there is satanic metal bands I've seen them live they may be truely evil and horrible people and swear at their audience, but you may think a band like 30 seconds to mars isn't metal they also have foul language they swear at their audience as well.

Also a lot of these bands are peopel actually trying to find a purpose so the people may be the same and they have some pretty good messages in their music.
please don't steryotype a type of music if you do not understand it and live in a bubble because that is also not good for you becuase there is not point in beign a christain if your going to isolate yourself with other christians chirstian tv music books films and never get out in the world becuase you won't make a difference.

 

[Tribulation]

Perhaps one would consider why they like listening to Heavy Metal Music.
What are the lyrics saying?

If you guys want to know what the music industry really is. You need to go to YOUTUBE and type in...

"John Todd music industry"

What he says is true!!!!! And will blow your mind!
Click on the top link... it's less than 7 minutes long.

Enjoy!

 

[Tribulation]

Oh yeah

There is a pastor on YOUTUBE that exposes the music industry.
His name is Phil Endris

Go to YOUTUBE then type in...
"Phil Endris Fearless"

Phil Endris has an AWESOME music conference, called the "FEARLESS CONFERENCE"

You need to see this stuff!!!! Seriously!

Enjoy

 

[emmabnormal]

music

These people, that play this music are also real people.
Yes I know the music industry is evil tell me something I don't know.

that mainly applies to the pop induestry though not metal.

 

[emmabnormal]

If you guys want to know what the music industry really is. You need to go to YOUTUBE and type in...

"John Todd music industry"

What he says is true!!!!! And will blow your mind!
Click on the top link... it's less than 7 minutes long.

Enjoy!

All this stuff about the illuminati is it?
I really do not want to believe this stuff.
I've been told by many people that it's real not real ect.

Yes they control beyonce and lil'wayne they are all apparently satantists and are controlled and the illuminati is taking over the world really?

if thats true they control everything, now I've been told they died out many years ago and they are actually free masons but, they aren't satanists or nessisarily evil.
I live near a free manson building and I'm pretty sure nothing evil happens there.

There is an eliment of truth as to people who are highly powerful in society and famous being 'evil' that inculdes like people not from the music industry and this is such a massive topic.

 

[Tribulation]

that mainly applies to the pop industry though not metal.

The point is this...

It's not just heavy metal music that is Satanic. Rap, Pop, Hip hop, rock music, & Heavy Metal are all Satanic. Study it for yourself.

Ignorance is no longer an excuse. The truth about the music industry is written in countless books, and now free for all to see on the internet.

You will see A LOT, and learn a lot.

Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge, since you have rejected knowledge. I shall reject you"

 

[Tribulation]

the illuminati... I really do not want to believe this stuff.
I've been told by many people that it's real ... this is such a massive topic.

Yes it is a massive subject. Another reason people need to cut off the Playstation, cut off the radio, cut off the TV... open their Bibles, and start to see what's REALLY going on around them. And empower themselves with the Truth of The Bible and the knowledge in it.

The internet is FULL of Christians that are exposing them. Even atheist don't like what they are seeing.

The Illuminati is VERY real. Don't pretend they are not.

The battle for our souls, begins with a battle for our minds. God wants us to belong to Him, and Satan wants to make us believe that Satan is not real. And that he isn't really doing this to us in our music, TV shows, Hollywood movies, and other forms of entertainment.

From what I read, the FreeMasons have been infiltrated by the Illuminati.
They don't like them either. But the Illuminati do such a good job of deceiving people. That they can take over, as a result of this tactic.

I ask you all 2 questions:
Who is the deceiver in the Bible?
Who said, "don't believe it" in the Book Of Genesis?

The Illuminati are deceivers. DON'T BE DECEIVED!

 

[Donnie Ducati]

Consider a few things.

Music is a powerful thing...no matter what style. What makes it impacting to the listener is the spirit behind the words and the artist. It makes me laugh how those "rock" haters will always jump on the wagon to condemn a style of music and then jump in there car and listen to there adulteress drenched , cheating , alcohol dripping country music....and go to choir practice on Wednesday night.

Satin has no creative power, he only uses and perverts what God has already made. God can but his touch on any style of music. Whats more powerful...His Word...or the rock music its attached to. Whats the difference in singing "Amazing Grace" to a country music sound as apposed to a rock sound ? Nobody ever says big band music is "of the devil" yet Frank Sinatra has some pretty lusty lyrics. The Church world as a whole loves Ray Boltz and his music continues to be played over Christian radio stations across the nation......AND HE'S GAY !

One might say..."the Angels in Heaven won't be singing rock or rap music"...> There singing things our ears have never heard. Do we really think there gonna be singing pretty choir music like the ol'Baptised Church down on the corner ? Different strocks for different folks. What I liked as a teen , I don't like now. What they like in Africa or China there not gonna like in the U.S.

 

[emmabnormal]

The illuminati is NOT real sorry I have heard it all I've seen the videos read about it believed in it everything but,
I am not going to believe some crap on the internet over someone who has a brain you are all blind if your all believing half the things you read online.
My partner has told me it is not real, and no he is not an athiest hes a strong christian and believes God will over rule whatever is going on there.

And yes it does not matter who genre of music you listen to there will be satanism in all of it ofc there is
and there are all the christian musicians which may be doing whatever behind the backs of the people who may think they are strong as well.

and also what is wrong with gay people?
I know waht they do is horrible and I personally could never be gay but, if they love God and they have a pure heart ect then why does it matter?
I mean being a christian isn't about following every rule and getting upset when you accidently break a rule you follow the rules becuase you love God not because your scared of hell or whatever.
so being gay is not wrong.

 

[Donnie Ducati]

and also what is wrong with gay people?
I know waht they do is horrible and I personally could never be gay but, if they love God and they have a pure heart ect then why does it matter?
I mean being a christian isn't about following every rule and getting upset when you accidently break a rule you follow the rules becuase you love God not because your scared of hell or whatever.
so being gay is not wrong.

WOW !!! Thats good. I take it you've never read the Bible ?

 

[Peace Seeker]

The illuminati is NOT real sorry I have heard it all I've seen the videos read about it believed in it everything but,
I am not going to believe some crap on the internet over someone who has a brain you are all blind if your all believing half the things you read online.

That's a very arrogant answer from you! And I would suggest that before you insult others and offer your groundless and totally uneducated opinions, that you do a little homework first, instead of telling people they have half a brain, when you clearly are in total ignorance about the subject matter!

You act like the Illuminati is some modern internet thing???? What are you, 18 years old? :shock:

There are factual books written on the subject from as far back as 200+ years ago. The Illuminati is now mainstream news thanks to the tireless efforts of researchers that helped expose it. But you have your head in the sand and speak without wisdom, all the while the new world order is tirelessly continuing it's plans to enslave you. You don't know you have an enemy, therefore how will you stand against it?

My partner has told me it is not real

Your partner told you it is not real? Well that settles it then!

and also what is wrong with gay people? if they love God and they have a pure heart then why does it matter?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, 6:10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, the verbally abusive, and swindlers will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them"

Deuteronomy 23:17
"There shall be no ***** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel"

Romans 1:24-32
Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts to impurity, to dishonor their bodies among themselves. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and worshiped and served the creation rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, and likewise the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed in their passions for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what should not be done. They are filled with every kind of unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, malice. They are rife with envy, murder, strife, deceit, hostility. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, contrivers of all sorts of evil, disobedient to parents, senseless, covenant-breakers, heartless, ruthless. Although they fully know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but also approve of those who practice them.


Does this look like homosexuals love God and have a pure heart ?

Here's some more :

I Timothy 1:9-11
We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

They are lumped in with murderers and called ungodly, sinful, unholy and irreligious. Hmmmmmmm..........

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

I pray that you do a little bit of research on the things you question, read your bible and ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you err.