Hell ... I've always struggled with this concept.

[Headcasey669]

And he shall wipe the tear from every eye. And forsake no one..... So what about the poor souls destined for eternal hell fire and ultimate torments for all eternity? .... Its always bothered me... it still does and I guess it always will.!

 

[Headcasey669]

Well over half all the sins and crimes that have ever been committed in the history of this planet were by really low run down people that were left half starved by there lords and masters.

 

[Sue D.]

Ending up in hell is the choice of the individual -- all of us either accept or reject the salvation made possible through the shed blood of Christ on calvary.

God is the only know who knows who will or who won't accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

We are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen.

 

[Headcasey669]

Ending up in hell is the choice of the individual -- all of us either accept or reject the salvation made possible through the shed blood of Christ on calvary.

God is the only know who knows who will or who won't accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

We are told to share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen.

I really don't think you grasp fully the cut and thrust of the two statements I made. I hope someone does.

 

[Headcasey669]

I just made a pretty good comment on a different hell related thread. It just came to me out of no where and I really don't know why it did. But it does beg an answer. Why could an all knowing all powerful all loving god not simply take all unrepentant sinners under his wing... as Jesus did with Saul.. And simply re educate them?

It's a good question and it more than deserves an answer.

 

[Headcasey669]

We are all born innocent. With no knowledge of anything let alone good or evil. It is the world that corrupts us.

 

[Headcasey669]

Most people are just victims of circumstances

 

[Hekuran]

Did you read through the whole thread on hell? It doesn't get to a firm conclusion, but you can see that there's a very lively debate about the nature of hell. The idea of eternal torment is not as clear in the Bible as most assume.

Especially Jesus talking about 'gehenna' Gehenna was a valley outside Jerusalem that was thought of as accursed. Jesus was using this metaphor to talk about judgement in this world, not the next.

God is just. If a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, I'm assured that God in his wisdom and goodness can deal with that.

 

[Enxu]

I just made a pretty good comment on a different hell related thread. It just came to me out of no where and I really don't know why it did. But it does beg an answer. Why could an all knowing all powerful all loving god not simply take all unrepentant sinners under his wing... as Jesus did with Saul.. And simply re educate them?

It's a good question and it more than deserves an answer.

The eternal torment is only reserved for the devil, beast and false prophet. All of the other unrepentant sinners are simply destroyed (soul and body) and wiped from existence. How long the wiping from existence will take is not clear, but it will certainly be a very painful and possibly long process for sinners which is why Jesus said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. But the destruction of both body and soul will not take forever. There is no such thing as eternal torment for mortal flesh and blood, that is a fable taught by RCC, possibly inspired by Satan himself because that is his own plight and he wants to portray God as a merciless tyrant so people will be discouraged from seeking Him.

 

[Sue D.]

Most people are just victims of circumstances

Actually Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. " And Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

We Like to think that we are just victims of our circumstances. We Do live in our various set Of circumstances. But that doesn't make us a 'victim' unless we allow ourselves To be a 'victim'.

We All make choices every day of our lives that affect us and those around us -- and there are Hard choices to make. Whether to be part of the group that does the drugs or to be the 'different' one who leaves and Doesn't do the drugs.
Or who chooses to Not rob the corner store when he / she is under pressure to Do that.

And there have been Lots of people who Have chosen to break the law and end up in jail / prison -- but they Also are out of the 'bad' environment -- a prison Bible study group is there to share and they are listened to as they share the Gospel unto salvation and accept Christ. And That Does change their lives for the Better.

 

[Sue D.]

Did you read through the whole thread on hell? It doesn't get to a firm conclusion, but you can see that there's a very lively debate about the nature of hell. The idea of eternal torment is not as clear in the Bible as most assume.

Especially Jesus talking about 'gehenna' Gehenna was a valley outside Jerusalem that was thought of as accursed. Jesus was using this metaphor to talk about judgement in this world, not the next.

God is just. If a man steals a loaf of bread to feed his starving family, I'm assured that God in his wisdom and goodness can deal with that.

No one wants to think that Bad , Negative consequences will last Forever. In This world - people Do die physical deaths. They are eased out of misery.

And there Is Hadees / Gehenna where the non-believer goes while waiting for the final judgement. And at that final time -- all non-believers Are thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. Why not simply assume the worse Will happen. That it Will last forever. Just like heaven does.

God Does tell us how He Does deal with the person who steals that loaf of bread to feed his starving family. He makes sure that 'someone' Will share the Gospel of salvation with that person. Stealing a loaf of bread won't send a person to hell.

It's rejecting God plan For that person's salvation that does.

God deals with our hearts on an individual basis. When the person realizes it's wrong and asks for forgiveness and does not repeat that wrong-doing -- then he's okay. It's where he's placing his faith that matters. Habitual stealing shows an inner problem that needs to be dealt with.

 

[Ivan Chamurliev]

Hi. I just want to put here what I know and think on the topic.
Firstly we have to know that God is not a man like us, but an all-powerful, almighty, the greatest of all being ( if we can call Him in such a way ). And He doesn't just wake up and decides what to do or act according to His likes. He's got principles, statutes that are eternal, can not be removed. Jesus said: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away." Matthew 24:35
And He is submitted to these statutes. They are, if we can say: irrevocable. They cannot be changed. And who founded these statutes or rules? - Himself. It's more like to say - Himself, His nature of doing, He cannot change that. James 1:17 There is no variation shadow of turning in Him. Hebrews 13:8. He provided the best way He could've - to send Jesus. Because someone had to pay. This explains that He can't change His rules or way. He needs to conform to that, He is compelled. His being, His heart is order. Otherwise if He could've change, He was going to just forget about the sin and that's it. But He can't. He wouldn't send Jesus then. I'm sure He cries and suffers for us. John 11:35. Out of His compassion. That's why He send Jesus. It had to be payed. He is a complete justice. That's His nature. It is His nature exactly as your nature, your instinct is telling you to eat, drink, breath, etc. If He wasn't compassionable He wouldn't send Him. He is not a man, but made Himself a man in the person of Jesus. We only gain from His sacrifice, not Him. He did it for compassion. If He judges someone is because He has to. But He feels it. The Bible speaks about hell. We can say many things or look at it from different perspectives, but that won't change facts. And one day anyway we will see how exactly it will be. But until then let us be careful and consider what could happen if it is in this way.

 

[PloughBoy]

Well said, and i do see you feel that pain, like Jesus felt concerning the lost. That day He will wipe away our tears. I understand what you are saying.

 

[Sue D.]

The only thing is -- by the time a person actually ends up in eternity -- it will be forever too late to change their mind. That's one reason we are told about Lazarus and the rich man in the present life here on earth.

I've come across people who are determined to pay for their own sin -- they don't want the forgiveness of Jesus Christ. It pains me to hear people say that.

And there are Also those who don't want to accept Jesus Christ and are content with going through an anihilation -- ceasing to exist. But Scripture doesn't teach that either. The Spirit of a person never dies. There is a Scripture that says that Death comes back to life and , so, endures eternity in lake of fire and brimstone.

 

[PloughBoy]

Well said, and i do see you feel that pain, like Jesus felt concerning the lost.❤ That day He will wipe away our tears. I understand what you are saying.❤

 

[William L. P.]

And he shall wipe the tear from every eye. And forsake no one..... So what about the poor souls destined for eternal hell fire and ultimate torments for all eternity? .... Its always bothered me... it still does and I guess it always will.!

I will start with what the Bible say: The penalty for sin is death. Once when you are born into sin..you age grow old and die. And once when your name is not in the book of life if you are thrown into a lake of fire you will die very quickly. The first death applies to everyone.

REVELATIONS 21:5-8
Then the One seated on the throne said, “Look! I am making everything new.” He also said, “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water as a gift to the thirsty from the spring of life. The victor will inherit these things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars — their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Ecclesiastes 9:3-5
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

Revelations 20:7-10
When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them. The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Satan and the demons are immortal they cannot die the judgement is harsh but the pain and suffering they have inflicted is hard to fathom as well Satan was cast down for trying to overthrow the throne of God not only what he did in the Garden of Eden. And throughout history he has been in opposition to God in everything. Now this is a personal opinion so do not expect to find this in the Bible. I believe just as Jesus took on human form and was able to "die" for the sins of all.
Taking human form has been denied to all heavenly creatures since the days of Noah when the Sons of God had children by mortal women. I believe that God will allow such a thing for Satan and the Demons once again in a human form they will receive the punishment for the wages of sin "Death". But he will choose everlasting punishment rather than death. So it is about a choice really. IMHO.

 

[Headcasey669]

I will start with what the Bible say: The penalty for sin is death. Once when you are born into sin..you age grow old and die. And once when your name is not in the book of life if you are thrown into a lake of fire you will die very quickly. The first death applies to everyone.

REVELATIONS 21:5-8
Then the One seated on the throne said, “Look! I am making everything new.” He also said, “Write, because these words are faithful and true.” And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give water as a gift to the thirsty from the spring of life. The victor will inherit these things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son. But the cowards, unbelievers, vile, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars — their share will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Ecclesiastes 9:3-5
This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that the same event happens to all. Also, the hearts of the children of man are full of evil, and madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

Revelations 20:7-10
When the 1,000 years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the sea. They came up over the surface of the earth and surrounded the encampment of the saints, the beloved city. Then fire came down from heaven and consumed them. The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Satan and the demons are immortal they cannot die the judgement is harsh but the pain and suffering they have inflicted is hard to fathom as well Satan was cast down for trying to overthrow the throne of God not only what he did in the Garden of Eden. And throughout history he has been in opposition to God in everything. Now this is a personal opinion so do not expect to find this in the Bible. I believe just as Jesus took on human form and was able to "die" for the sins of all.
Taking human form has been denied to all heavenly creatures since the days of Noah when the Sons of God had children by mortal women. I believe that God will allow such a thing for Satan and the Demons once again in a human form they will receive the punishment for the wages of sin "Death". But he will choose everlasting punishment rather than death. So it is about a choice really. IMHO.

Thank you William. You have helped me more than I can ever say. Eternal hell fire is for Satan and his demons... And the wages of sin for man is simply death. Thank you my brother. Xxx

 

[Spazz]

And he shall wipe the tear from every eye. And forsake no one..... So what about the poor souls destined for eternal hell fire and ultimate torments for all eternity? .... Its always bothered me... it still does and I guess it always will.!

made you talking about predestination that is talked about it in Romans? Like how some people are destined for heaven or hell no matter what they do? If so, then I think I may have a theory on that.

Basically, God is all knowing, right? He is omniscient, omnipotent, etc etc.. So if God really is omniscient, then He knows everything about the past, the present, and (more importantly) the future. So when God sees the future, he can see all of the paths and what if scenarios that a person will go through in their life, and how those paths will lead to other paths, and so on.

Basically, when a person is always making decisions, and every decision can either lead you away or pull you closer to God. I feel like some people are going to live lives that are going to stray themselves away from God, Like a kid born in the streets that needs to steal, do drugs, do women, and maybe even kill to survive on the streets is less likely to encounter God, much less choose Him—Whereas someone who lived a fortunate enough life to be able to go to church on Sundays and eat dinner with their family after saying grace is more likely to choose God. God sees each and every persons life and the choices that they can, and most likely will make over the course of their lives. He knows that, in 56 hours, you’re going to have to decide whether or not you’ll lie to your boss about the project. God could also intervene in some cases, like maybe show you another co worker who got fired for lying to the boss, in order to influence your own decisions. Regardless, God sees all, and the whole predestined thing is Gods way of saying, “hey, judging by the path your walking right now, you’re going to end up in Hell. But hey, if you take up Suzys offer to go to church next Sunday, that may change your walk and your path.

This is just a little theory I came up with back in highschool when I first heard about this. Sometimes I even like to imagine it like a tree, where each branch is like a choice you have to make, but whatever choice you do make, you still end up moving forward.
if this doesn’t make sense or if I missed the mark, then please let me know. It’s like, 2 in the morning as I’m writing this, and I’m definitely sleep deprived. regardless, hope this helps at least a little bit.

 

[Ivan Chamurliev]

made you talking about predestination that is talked about it in Romans? Like how some people are destined for heaven or hell no matter what they do? If so, then I think I may have a theory on that.

Basically, God is all knowing, right? He is omniscient, omnipotent, etc etc.. So if God really is omniscient, then He knows everything about the past, the present, and (more importantly) the future. So when God sees the future, he can see all of the paths and what if scenarios that a person will go through in their life, and how those paths will lead to other paths, and so on.

Basically, when a person is always making decisions, and every decision can either lead you away or pull you closer to God. I feel like some people are going to live lives that are going to stray themselves away from God, Like a kid born in the streets that needs to steal, do drugs, do women, and maybe even kill to survive on the streets is less likely to encounter God, much less choose Him—Whereas someone who lived a fortunate enough life to be able to go to church on Sundays and eat dinner with their family after saying grace is more likely to choose God. God sees each and every persons life and the choices that they can, and most likely will make over the course of their lives. He knows that, in 56 hours, you’re going to have to decide whether or not you’ll lie to your boss about the project. God could also intervene in some cases, like maybe show you another co worker who got fired for lying to the boss, in order to influence your own decisions. Regardless, God sees all, and the whole predestined thing is Gods way of saying, “hey, judging by the path your walking right now, you’re going to end up in Hell. But hey, if you take up Suzys offer to go to church next Sunday, that may change your walk and your path.

This is just a little theory I came up with back in highschool when I first heard about this. Sometimes I even like to imagine it like a tree, where each branch is like a choice you have to make, but whatever choice you do make, you still end up moving forward.
if this doesn’t make sense or if I missed the mark, then please let me know. It’s like, 2 in the morning as I’m writing this, and I’m definitely sleep deprived. regardless, hope this helps at least a little bit.

I still think that we have to make choices. The concept of predestination is way too high for us to know or think about it. The Bible speaks about choices and in base of these choices we will have to answer. And obviously God knows the future, but our part here is to decide or have atleast the right attitude about these choices and He can make us able to do it. He is always trying to warn us or lead us in the right way, but there is our part too and in base of that we can be hardened or soften our heart and this is His work too. But many times He looks at our disposition. He is so great that He is already in the future, but we will still gonna be asked for our choices, because we live here in the present.
Deuteronomy 30:14,15,16 " See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil. "...
This is what I think about it.

 

[William L. P.]

Thank you William. You have helped me more than I can ever say. Eternal hell fire is for Satan and his demons... And the wages of sin for man is simply death. Thank you my brother. Xxx

I am most happy that could be of help! The basis is in many scriptures not just the ones I quoted. "we love because God loved us first" "In love there is forgiveness of a multitude of sins"
13 And so there remain Faith, Hope, Love -- these three; and of these the greatest is Love.
Luke 6:27 ¶But I say to you who give ear to me, Have love for those who are against you, do good to those who have hate for you
"God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that we might live."
If there is one conclusion I have come to over the years of reading the Bible it is that Jehovah is a God of love, compassion, great patience he is not one who
desires to give pain and suffering.
For mankind the lake of fire means death that is what I believe but even with all Satan has done I do not believe that God wants him to suffer eternal punishment anymore than us. But as God knows everything....not one hair falls from your head that God does not know or a sparrow falls from the sky. "I knew you before the creation of the world" Even with a way out of that suffering Satan will endure eternal pain and suffering rather than death "the wages of sin!" So although God does not say that he has provided a way out of the pain and suffering for Satan and his demons, from what I know of God I can not believe he did not.
God bless you and yours