Hell ... I've always struggled with this concept.

[PloughBoy]

44No man “can” come to me, except the Father that sent me “draw “him: and I will raise him up in the last day. (John 6:44) ASV. The word “can “ here means : has not the “ability”. Example: No man can jump through a 100 feet thick wall. Why, he has not the “ability “.

Why do we come to “Christ” ? Because God the Father, draws us to Jesus. If anyone thinks they accepted Jesus on their own, they are wrong. You did not choose Him, He chose you. Then you feared Hell . Why because He open your eyes and now you can see. [ability] to see. And you warn people of “The Wrath” to come. What is God’s love , The Truth! He said: I AM , The Truth. He said: I know my Father, you don’t know HIM, I tell you fear HIM.
“And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.5“But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who after He has killed has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him! (Luke 12:4-5)ASV. Who are you going to obey, some so called biblical teacher or The Word of God? Fearing God will keep you out of a lot of trouble. Christians fear men more than they fear GOD! And that is Apostasy ! “Faithful are the wounds of friend”

 

[PloughBoy]

The reason why many cannot understand why God would cast people into The lake of Fire. Because they do not understand the Holiness of God and who you really are. And scripture tells us how evil and bad we are. No one wants to believe how evil we are. No one wants to believe the truth! There is done good no not one! It took a GOD to take off HIS Robe in Glory, Come Down here into this curse world, walk these cursed streets breath in this cursed air, smell this cursed air,, and die a violent death. To redeem a people that only deserve damnation with no parole. The Bible makes all of this plain! And some of the things I hear coming out of our thoughts, I am appalled , how we think about ourselves in light of scripture, like we deserved the blessing of God and we have Christians “born from above” in third world countries, don’t even have a clean glass of water to drink or in any moment someone might come through the door and slaughter them and their family because they declare “Jesus is the Son of God” and they rejoice in-spite of this because their names are written in The LAMBS Book of life.
Now, who do you fear?❤
What deed did you do, to obtain eternal life, to escape the eternal flames. Let us hear you boast about what you did, how good you are, what good deeds you have to inherit eternal life.
Forgive me , my brothers and sisters in Christ if I seems to be harsh. I just felt like it had to be said, if I am out of order. Pray for me, that His will be done for me, and not ours

 

[Samson2020]

That would also apply in our understanding of the Bible itself. If we really understood the Love of God then there would be no fear in us.

 

[Headcasey669]

I think that if we were in His place we would've reacted differently. And He is not a man as we are and He doesn't take decisions the same way we do. Most of the times we can't stand at something that is uncomfortable to us or goes against our principales. But He didn't. He endured trough it. He showed His love by sending His Son for us. Anyway I don't think that is the thought of hell that makes us believe or follow Jesus. It didn't happen like that to me in the beginning. I was pulled by others things and qualities of God that helped me to believe. And this is what we need to focus more on, knowing obviously the other part. What I am saying is that is not for the fear of hell that someone follows Jesus. There are many people aswell that have the knowledge of it but don't do. As it says in 1John 4:18 " There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love. " It is His love.

We are made in his image

 

[Samson2020]

Why did God make man in his image, as an image is a picture of sorts. It has no life, and must be maintained or it will fade away.

 

[Bill]

Well over half all the sins and crimes that have ever been committed in the history of this planet were by really low run down people that were left half starved by there lords and masters.

That is a funny statement to be honest . You dont know sin like you think you do .

The worst sinners are not the downtrodden but from those who say "" i see "" . I tell you plainly , the walls of hell are lined by Christian's and unfortunately more from modern times than any time before . Christians who condemn others as sinners because those others do not think like that Chrisian does.

They have forgotten , God is Love .

 

[Samson2020]

If God is Love which we know he is. Then why would he allow all people who never heard of Jesus i.e. ALL MEN prior to his ministry on earth, as well as billions throughout the last 2,000 years, be placed in a state of eternal torment because they did not choose him (which he chooses not them). The concept of hell is completely misunderstood.
False prophet- requires humans to run the false religions of the world.
Beast-Governments- Requires people to run the governments of the world.
Satan- Gods destroyer, the smith that blows the coals of the FIRE- required for sin to thrive, and people required to carry out the sin.
Grave- Why thrown into the second death unless humans could die and lay in that grave.
Death- pointless unless people can indeed die during the second death, which they must in order to need the grave, and in the end its the last enemy put down.
All who never heard prior to new testament- Thrown back in to second death along with all the above, subjected to all of those things. How is it that they are subjected to FALSE RELIGION, GOVERNMENTS ETC IF THEY ARE SUFFERING ETERNAL TORMENT?????
UNLESS THE TORMENT IS THE SUBJECTION TO ALL THE ABOVE. AND IS ONLY FOR A TIME PERIOD.

 

[Curtis]

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Act 17:30 “God overlooked people’s ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him.
Act 17:31 For he has set a day for judging the world with justice by the man he has appointed, and he proved to everyone who this is by raising him from the dead.” (NLT)

 

[Samson2020]

And his response to the sinful adulteress was "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He himself could have cast that first stone, but he would not.
So now he flips a 180 and not only casts the first stone but puts her in Hell for an eternal torment? And after taking away the sin of the world through the
blood of his own cross. ???
If he paid the price for the sin of the world, and he did, how can she be held responsible? As God decreed ALL to be justified unto life because of that very action! No matter how many transgressions are committed. Romans 5
If God (the potter) chooses to make a vessel to dishonor how is it that the vessel should suffer eternal torment because it was made by him to be a dishonorable vessel?
You were once a vessel to dishonor but received mercy in the form of Faith. And are now a vessel to honor by his choice. YES? But not all men have Faith. Yet. And if they have yet to receive what is necessary to beleive then an eternal torment awaits them due to God not choosing them?
Whats the point of every knee bowing and every tongue confessing if the compensation is eternal torment?
Seems rather odd to show them the savior then torment them forever because they did not receive what you and I and Paul received doesn't it?

Please explain why Saul on the road was blinded by the light and heard the voice of Jesus Christ, while no one else did, receives such mercy as a chosen vessel
but everybody else that doesn't get such a visitation, and mercy, burns forever?

ROMANS 11:32 "For GOD hath concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF, that he might have MERCY UPON ALL." MERCY BEING THE GIFT OF FAITH TO BELIEVE. In the context of an ETERNAL TORMENT how can this verse ever be fulfilled?

 

[Samson2020]

We can simplify this by saying the scriptures about Hell speak to the destruction of the fallen carnal nature of man, not the men that have been afflicted by it.
It is the (WAY) of the ungodly that will perish, not the ungoldy themselves.
"For the Lord knoweth the WAY of the righteous: but the WAY of the ungodly SHALL PERISH."
"He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will SUBDUE OUR INIQUITIES; and thou WILT CAST ALL THEIR SINS INTO THE DEPTHS OF THE SEA."
Until Jesus these scriptures could not be understood but in light of the process of salvation they now can be understood. "Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Through death of the carnal nature the spirit Son within us gets stronger, this is the subduing of our iniquities. The sacrifice of Jesus was
the price paid for the casting away of ALL sins into the depths of the sea. And sure people still sin but these are reckoned as to have already been paid for and cast away as well.
I'm not saying they're going to get a free ride, because they will go through the same process we are going through now but at least 1,000 years later after laying in the grave for a long time. Just as those whom died before the NEW COVENANT. Our Bible does say EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER. And only God knows the order. So how do we reconcile the current doctrine of HELL as having an ETERNAL torment with theses scriptures. We can't if we are in the fleshly mind set, but in the spiritual mind set it should be obvious.

This is what I call good news. How about you?

Can I get an AMEN???

 

[LordKnows]

The eternal torment is only reserved for the devil, beast and false prophet. FALSE
All of the other unrepentant sinners are simply destroyed (soul and body) and wiped from existence. FALSE
How long the wiping from existence will take is not clear, but it will certainly be a very painful and possibly long process for sinners which is why Jesus said there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
WHO TOLD YOU THIS LIE?
But the destruction of both body and soul will not take FOREVER. FALSE - IT WILL TAKE ALL ETERNITY

There is no such thing as eternal torment for mortal flesh and blood,
1ST YOU INCLUDE THE SOUL & NOW OMITT IT & REPLACE IT WITH FLESH & BLOOD - TRICKERY
that is a fable taught by RCC, possibly inspired by Satan himself because that is his own plight and he wants to portray God as a merciless tyrant so people will be discouraged from seeking him.
HOW DID YOU READ THE WORD OF GOD & COME TO THIS CONCLUSION?

This is nothing more than a man made lie. Just the basics of scripture prove this to be incorrect.

WOW!

 

[Samson2020]

Col 1:16 "For by him were ALL THINGS created, that are in heaven, and that are in the earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS were created by him and for him."

Col 1:20 "And having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS, unto himself; by him I say, whether they be things in earth or things in heaven."

Romans 11:32 " For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy on them ALL."

Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offense of one(Adam) judgement came upon ALL MEN to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one(Jesus) the FREE GIFT came upon ALL MEN unto justification of life."

Romans 11:29 "For the GIFTS and calling of God are without repentance."

1 Co 15:25 " For he (Jesus) must reign, till he (God) hath put ALL enemies under his feet."
15:26 "The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." conclusion Hell must be put down before death if death is last? Where does that place false religion, government, Satan?

Col 1:21 " And you who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now he has RECONCILED."

How do you feel about being reconciled to God through Jesus? Did you do this or did God? And if he reconciled you to him why can he not reconcile ALL THINGS?

ALL THINGS are possible with GOD.

 

[Samson2020]

"The body without the spirit is dead" So if the body were to be hell fire destroyed it wouldn't be much more than cremation of dirt.

However the spirit within the body came out from God. Do you honestly believe that a part of God(The spirit he gave you) will exist in an eternal hell fire and be tormented?
Besides that spirit is already dead in sin and trespass.

"If you continue in my WORD then you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free."

Is freedom knowing that while you are in heaven? the majority of people you loved are burning in an eternal hell fire? If it is I feel truly sorry for you for you understand not the Love of God.

There is something else here I hope some of you see. "IF YOU continue in my WORD......... I have taught that the WORD of God was a PLAN or Pattern like a blue print. Some have laughed simply because they will not bother to look at the Greek word LOGOS interpreted in the Bible as WORD, but means plan, reason, word as in WHY and HOW.
If you give your WORD to someone then you are committing yourself to fulfill whatever you said you would fulfill.

So in looking at if you continue in my word you shall know the truth....... the WORD of God is the PLAN of God from before the beginning of creation.

Couple that with Romans 5:18, Romans 11:32, Col 1:20 above and maybe you'll get a better picture of what is really going to happen.

Any body who really has vision and wants to see take a look at Isaiah 59:20-21, if you can't see it then you have not been granted access yet. Keep in mind that verse 21 will span thousands of years.

 

[Sue D.]

You Do have some interesting ways of putting Scripture together.

 

[Samson2020]

It ain't me the Holy Ghost wrote the book he just shows me how the jig saw puzzle is supposed to fit together, thats how he keeps those out that are not supposed to see.

 

[Sue D.]

Actually , it's the Holy Spirit who is our teacher. God alone knows how the jig saw puzzle does fit together. God has given All of us His Word to read and learn from and obey.. God would that Everyone would come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. and He Also , only, knows who will and who won't.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am just going kick this out there too. Samson2020 you mostly will know how to handle this. Concerning our love ones , we will say suffering in condemnation ok, just for conversation. This “Theologian” was addressing that question about how we will feel about the people we know suffering how painful it would be. He said when that day comes we will know why , for we will understand it is justified and we also deserves the same thing even more. That puzzle me many. Of years. Through all the years of my studying in which a part studying was addressing that question to God why, I cried a many of nights concerning those points, I had friends and neighborhoods I loved . many were young when they died. I have been hit by cars three times by age 19, the last time doctors said it was a miracle, I had bad accidents motorcycle s, I had bad falls when my horses had fallen on me, I was mistaken for a person who had A “Hit” on them by a Italian. Put a “357 Magnum “ to my head with the hammer pulled back.. it did not even scare me. “ just told the person calmly you got the wrong person, look into my wallet and take my wallet out, I got all kinds of ID. He did, I told him I would not report it. He let me go. One of my friends that die young saved me from drowning when we were kids. I was a Boy Scout and a Explore Scout. This is just a highlight, but I worried about my friends who have moved on. So in my years of studying. And the “Theologian” who said we will understand , “true”. And how GOD will wipe away our tears, and we will remember no more, behold all things are new. But I still kept searching for still a answer within “Holy Scripture” within the confound of regular studies. Then one day while I was studying about three years ago, I never ask anything from God, just let your Holy Spirit guide me into thy truth, and let your will be done and not mines and please have mercy me. “. The light came on then I understood why, light a bolt of lightning speed, from Genesis to Revelation . I understood. I only will share this part with you! “There is none good, no not one”! It is”horrifying”! It took the “SON of GOD” to save us from the Wrath of “Almighty GOD”. The day will come all will see. “If some Christians could only see” it would terrify them! Maybe It sounds foolish, maybe it is, I know I don’t like visions or Devine Revelations! I don’t trust them., Always have told God., I don’t what to see more! They are always in “Holy Scripture” nothing outside of Scripture. But one thing I found out, God does what He wants to do. “And nobody can stay HIS hand”!

 

[Samson2020]

All i'm saying is this

Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods, and ALL OF YOU ARE CHILDREN OF THE MOST HIGH." Repeated by Jesus in John 10:34, God is love. But he's gonna burn his own children in an eternal torment?
or is it we don't see with our spiritual eyes?

Why is it called the second death? Because people will die thats why death and the grave are in the second death. Why does he toss the beast in which is government, why false religion? Both of these things require people to make them run/happen however you want to look at it. Death and Hell are enemies that are to be put under his feet
I.E. not enemies any more and reconciled. Where will all those souls be once these two are reconciled? They will have been reconciled in advance!!!!!!

Our God is a consuming FIRE. What does he consume? The iniquity in ALL OF US over time.

 

[Samson2020]

You can't have the FREE GIFT of justification of life bought and paid for by Jesus Christ taken away for the GIFTS and calling of God are WITHOUT REPENTANCE. And
the FREE GIFT was given to ALL men because of what Jesus did, it's irrelevant what you choose. As you say God will fulfill his will and your right.

"The Father loveth the Son and hath given ALL things into his hands"
"And this is the Fathers will which sent me , that of ALL that HE HATH GIVEN ME (everything) I should LOSE NOTHING, but should RAISE IT UP AGAIN AT THE LAST DAY."

I said look at Isaiah 59:20-21 and remember that verse 21 will consume several thousand years, in that light when will the last DAY occur?

If you can see it this is Freedom!!!!!

 

[Sue D.]

Samson2020 -- you are incredable at pulling Scripture up and taking it out of it's intended context to say things it doesn't really say.

The Psalm 82 passage. It definitely does say that -- but it's the context that is just as important.

That is suggesting universal salvation -- and we know That isn't true. God Has prepared eternal punishment for a few entities because they deserve it. But because of our sin nature, we All deserve eternal punishment. God has Also prepared the only way to Avoid eternal punishment.

You're trying to apply Your logic to God's Word. Doesn't work that way. God's plan is something We need to accept.

And we Do struggle with the concept of hell // lake of fire and brimstone because no one Likes to think of anything that horrible really existing.

Well -- all Anyone Needs to do is to accept God's Way of staying Out.

And there is speculation as to who the beast and false prophet are.

In the Isaiah 59 passage, there's really nothing To see.