Homosexuality

[Donnie Ducati]

I guess today I see it as more of just a book with made up stories

Do you see the history of the U.S. or Africa or Australia or any other place on earth as a bunch of made up stories when you read or research there history ? Is George Washington a fictional person ?

 

[FreeReason]

Do you see the history of the U.S. or Africa or Australia or any other place on earth as a bunch of made up stories when you read or research there history ? Is George Washington a fictional person ?

History is interesting in that much of what is written is not true. For example, Nero did not 'fiddle' while Rome burned (actually violins had not yet been invented). Columbus and all sailors during his time knew the earth was not flat. And, George Washington did not have wooden teeth.

I think particularly in the case of the bible, we should be skeptical of its origins. Of the 66 books, written by over 40 different authors (many where the author itself is in question) is full of so many contradictions that anyone saying that it is the 'inerrant word of god' should be required to justify his claims.

That said, the OP question on the bibles stance on homosexuality, I think, has nothing to do with love between two individuals, but rather is preoccupied with the act of sex between two people of the same gender. The bible is clear that it condemns gay sex. However, in the same sense, anyone who relies upon the bible as their source of morality should also be required to justify those morals.

 

[gdemoss]

History is interesting in that much of what is written is not true. For example, Nero did not 'fiddle' while Rome burned (actually violins had not yet been invented). Columbus and all sailors during his time knew the earth was not flat. And, George Washington did not have wooden teeth.

I sit in amazement as I read your post. Do you realize that your claim is that you somehow know what written history is or is not true? You claim to know what Columbus knew or didn't know. You claim to know for fact that Nero had no fiddle. And you somehow know what was in George Washington's mouth? Please, without using written history justify your claims.

I think particularly in the case of the bible, we should be skeptical of its origins. Of the 66 books, written by over 40 different authors (many where the author itself is in question) is full of so many contradictions that anyone saying that it is the 'inerrant word of god' should be required to justify his claims.

Your claim is that the bible is full of contradictions. Would you mind starting a thread that contains all of the contradictions since someone who make such a statement should be required to justify his claim.

That said, the OP question on the bibles stance on homosexuality, I think, has nothing to do with love between two individuals, but rather is preoccupied with the act of sex between two people of the same gender. The bible is clear that it condemns gay sex. However, in the same sense, anyone who relies upon the bible as their source of morality should also be required to justify those morals.

Where do you get your morals? Can you justify them?

Welcome to the forum. I see that this is your first post. I want to make clear that my intentions of posting the things that I have posted in response to your post are meant to help you take a look at yourself and how what you say appears to others. Did you realize what you were saying? Or what claims you were making?

I don't know what your actual thoughts about the bible are but I am one of those who does get my morals from the bible and believes that it is the inerrant word of God. Do I have to justify my morals? Nope. Do I have to prove to anyone that the bible is the inerrant word of God? Nope. My only required action is to justify my faith before a Holy God through my works so in the end I hear those words I long to hear 'well done good and faithful servant'. Words that practicing homosexuals will not hear.

If you do question the authenticity of the bible then were do you get your authentic information about God or Christ?

God Bless

Gary

 

[jiggyfly]

First question It depends on who that person is and how much faith they have. I have lost a lot of faith as I have gotten older and learned more about the history of our planet. Second question I don't really know how to answer. It matters to me because it's something my parents would read to me and It was a big part a my childhood because I believed in it so much and did my best to follow it and I learned a lot on how to be a good person. I guess today I see it as more of just a book with made up stories

What do you think about Jesus the Christ?

 

[Christ4Ever]

That said, the OP question on the bibles stance on homosexuality, I think, has nothing to do with love between two individuals, but rather is preoccupied with the act of sex between two people of the same gender. The bible is clear that it condemns gay sex. However, in the same sense, anyone who relies upon the bible as their source of morality should also be required to justify those morals.

First Welcome FreeReason,
I'm less curious on your stance on the Bible, than why you walked away from the faith. Has your belief moved to another religion, or do you now proclaim to be an Atheist?

 

[FreeReason]

I sit in amazement as I read your post. Do you realize that your claim is that you somehow know what written history is or is not true? You claim to know what Columbus knew or didn't know. You claim to know for fact that Nero had no fiddle. And you somehow know what was in George Washington's mouth? Please, without using written history justify your claims.

Perhaps I should clarify, not ALL written history is false. Much of it is true. I suppose I could have said that you shouldn't always believe what you read.

Your claim is that the bible is full of contradictions. Would you mind starting a thread that contains all of the contradictions since someone who make such a statement should be required to justify his claim.

I'd be happy to start a thread on this topic. Since I am new here, I thought I might ease myself in, but if it will not cause heartache or censor I'll do it on my next opportunity.

Where do you get your morals? Can you justify them?

Great question, and a long subject. The synopsis would probably be that we have some built in morals that seem concrete, some that are probably questionable, and many that are ambiguous. However, I think some study on ethics and society can lead us to make solid moral judgments.

Welcome to the forum. I see that this is your first post. I want to make clear that my intentions of posting the things that I have posted in response to your post are meant to help you take a look at yourself and how what you say appears to others. Did you realize what you were saying? Or what claims you were making?
I don't know what your actual thoughts about the bible are but I am one of those who does get my morals from the bible and believes that it is the inerrant word of God. Do I have to justify my morals? Nope. Do I have to prove to anyone that the bible is the inerrant word of God? Nope. My only required action is to justify my faith before a Holy God through my works so in the end I hear those words I long to hear 'well done good and faithful servant'. Words that practicing homosexuals will not hear.
If you do question the authenticity of the bible then were do you get your authentic information about God or Christ?
God Bless
Gary

Thanks for the response and the well wishes. I'm quite aware of what I'm writing and I hope we can both learn from our posts. There's actually quite a lot in your short post. Perhaps we can start with the contradictions thread soon and go from there.

What do you think about Jesus the Christ?

I think he was likely a wise teacher with a group of devoted followers in his day. It is quite likely thought that he was not the son of a god or could perform miracles. I think most of the teachings attributed to him could also be attributed from other religions and people, many older than Jesus.

First Welcome FreeReason,
I'm less curious on your stance on the Bible, than why you walked away from the faith. Has your belief moved to another religion, or do you now proclaim to be an Atheist?

Thanks for the welcome. I was raised in a Presbyterian home in the NC mountains and stayed with that through college. I never thought to question religion as I assumed its authenticity based on the authorities that told me it was true (parents, pastors, community, etc..). At some point after marriage I thought about going back to church. I suppose I was at the age to seriously question authority and its claims when I did. From there I started researching the claims of the bible and reading the arguments from both sides. It became clear to me that Christianity and I had differing opinions on a great many topics. Ultimately through research and reason, I came to the conclusion that there is no god (atheist). Thanks for asking.

 

[gdemoss]

Perhaps I should clarify, not ALL written history is false. Much of it is true. I suppose I could have said that you shouldn't always believe what you read.

OK, that brings me to another point...first, hello and nice to see you again! You say some is false and much is true of written history. I have a big problem with written history. I cannot tell how to tell the false from the true. I can read it all day long but it doesn't make the claims true or false but claims. There are those who claim that they have ways of discerning which is which but how can it be if they weren't there? One must somehow have 'faith' since the things cannot be proven. Even if there appears to be evidence that causes one to place there faith in an historic event, place or person, it is still faith. Just like the fact that you have 'faith' that there is no God. You cannot prove there is none just as those who claim there is cannot prove their claims. It is all about faith.

I'd be happy to start a thread on this topic. Since I am new here, I thought I might ease myself in, but if it will not cause heartache or censor I'll do it on my next opportunity.

I have no objection to the thread topic. I only see it as an opportunity to show others how to understand that there are no contradictions in scripture but only apparent contradictions that are stumbling blocks to the wise and the prudent. I cannot speak for anyone else.

Great question, and a long subject. The synopsis would probably be that we have some built in morals that seem concrete, some that are probably questionable, and many that are ambiguous. However, I think some study on ethics and society can lead us to make solid moral judgments.

How else could an Atheist get morals except it be of self. Understandable.

I think he was likely a wise teacher with a group of devoted followers in his day. It is quite likely thought that he was not the son of a god or could perform miracles. I think most of the teachings attributed to him could also be attributed from other religions and people, many older than Jesus.

Just a comment on the many older than Jesus. Food for thought. Jesus wasn't necessarily the first God sent teaching what he taught. The very first may have been Abel. Jesus was the only one coming to be King of the Jews as the Son of God.

 

[FreeReason]

OK, that brings me to another point...first, hello and nice to see you again! You say some is false and much is true of written history. I have a big problem with written history. I cannot tell how to tell the false from the true. I can read it all day long but it doesn't make the claims true or false but claims. There are those who claim that they have ways of discerning which is which but how can it be if they weren't there? One must somehow have 'faith' since the things cannot be proven. Even if there appears to be evidence that causes one to place there faith in an historic event, place or person, it is still faith. Just like the fact that you have 'faith' that there is no God. You cannot prove there is none just as those who claim there is cannot prove their claims. It is all about faith.

Faith is interesting. Defined, it is belief in something without proof. Faith really boils down to belief in what someone you respect, or an authority tells you is true. To your point, especially in ancient history, what was recorded is difficult to cross reference to establish the veracity of the writings. When someone says they have faith in the bible, I think what they mean is they believe it when someone tells them that the bible is true.

How else could an Atheist get morals except it be of self. Understandable.

I would define morality as doing what is best for the well-being of humanity. I believe if that thought dominated the decisions of every human, we would do well indeed as a species. To prove that you don't need a god for morality, suppose for a moment that there was no god and no bible. Would you commit murder, robbery, adultery? And if you think it more likely, would you want someone who committed those acts to be a member of your family? No sane person would, no god necessary.

Just a comment on the many older than Jesus. Food for thought. Jesus wasn't necessarily the first God sent teaching what he taught. The very first may have been Abel. Jesus was the only one coming to be King of the Jews as the Son of God.

I was thinking more like Mithra (600BC). He was supposedly born on Dec. 25th, from a virgin while surrounded by magi. He had 12 disciples and went around teaching and performing miracles. His followers practiced a sacrament and held Sunday as sacred. He was buried in a tomb and rose after three days. Strange similarities I would say, all recorded starting 600 years BC.

On that note, actually several historic figures claim to share a birthday with Jesus:

Horus (c. 3000 BCE)
Osiris (c. 3000 BCE)
Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE)
Krishna (c. 1400 BCE)
Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE)
Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE)
Heracles (c. 800 BCE)
Dionysus (c. 186 BCE)
Tammuz (c. 400 BCE)
Adonis (c. 200 BCE)
Hermes
Bacchus
Prometheus

 

[TouchTestimony]

History is interesting in that much of what is written is not true. For example, Nero did not 'fiddle' while Rome burned (actually violins had not yet been invented). Columbus and all sailors during his time knew the earth was not flat. And, George Washington did not have wooden teeth.

I think particularly in the case of the bible, we should be skeptical of its origins. Of the 66 books, written by over 40 different authors (many where the author itself is in question) is full of so many contradictions that anyone saying that it is the 'inerrant word of god' should be required to justify his claims.

That said, the OP question on the bibles stance on homosexuality, I think, has nothing to do with love between two individuals, but rather is preoccupied with the act of sex between two people of the same gender. The bible is clear that it condemns gay sex. However, in the same sense, anyone who relies upon the bible as their source of morality should also be required to justify those morals.

ha! that makes sense

 

[B-A-C]

ha! that makes sense

There are many sources of morality in the world today. Good, bad, indifferent. Some are right, some are wrong. How do we know which is correct? In the case of Christianity it is the Bible. Period. There can be no other source. People can call themselves Christians, but if they don't believe the Bible then what do they believe?

The parts they like? Leave out the parts they don't like? This is how cults get started. There are ay things in the Bible I don't like, there are things in the Bible it says I shouldn't do yet I struggle with them, but just because I don't like it, that makes the Bible wrong?

You can believe Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Word, and the Word is God, or you can chose to ignore all that and believe something else, that's up to you. But then you lose all credibility of calling yourself a Christian.

Some on here simply choose "not to be Christians", and that's their choice, but you have to wonder why they are here on a Christian site telling the rest of us we are wrong. We can give our source of authority.. the Bible. What is your source of authority?

 

[Peace Seeker]

I was thinking more like Mithra (600BC). He was supposedly born on Dec. 25th, from a virgin while surrounded by magi. He had 12 disciples and went around teaching and performing miracles. His followers practiced a sacrament and held Sunday as sacred. He was buried in a tomb and rose after three days. Strange similarities I would say, all recorded starting 600 years BC.

On that note, actually several historic figures claim to share a birthday with Jesus:

Horus (c. 3000 BCE)
Osiris (c. 3000 BCE)
Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE)
Krishna (c. 1400 BCE)
Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE)
Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE)
Heracles (c. 800 BCE)
Dionysus (c. 186 BCE)
Tammuz (c. 400 BCE)
Adonis (c. 200 BCE)
Hermes
Bacchus
Prometheus

Jesus wasn't born on December 25th. That date wasn't ascribed to His birth until the 5th century A.D. by the Catholic church, to convert pagans that were already used to using that date, as your list attests.

The bible tells us that when Jesus was born[COLOR=#22222] (Luke 2:8-12)[/COLOR], the shepherds were in the fields tending their flocks. They didn't do that in the cold winter climate of Palestine.

Regarding Mithra, I am most curious how you arrived at the conclusion that it started in 600 B.C. Wikipedia states what is most commonly and accurately believed by most credible scholars, that it was practiced in the 1st to 4th centuries A.D.

I have a keen interest in archaeology and ancient history and have traveled in a lot of the places in Europe where the old Roman Empire lands were, etc. And in all the archaeological sites and museums I visited I never saw any evidence for a pre-Jesus era Mithraic religion. Bits of 1st century A.D. and later stuff though.

Do you get your info from books like those of highly discredited author Acharya S.? I read that one too. I have read most of the popular anti-bible books out there. The ones that bash the bible, call Christianity a pagan religion, etc.

Such books are very good at deceiving people who have no grounding in the truth and want very much to believe that Christianity is false so they don't have to face up to the ramifications of it being true.

I was one of them, before I was saved by the Way, The TRUTH and the Life, Jesus Christ.

Also, the church and bible didn't NEED to borrow from any other religions to get it's theology, as the New Testament Messiah, Jesus Christ, and the concepts of redemption, the incarnation, resurrection, etc. are found in many places in the Old Testament prophecies and teachings.

 

[gdemoss]

Faith is interesting. Defined, it is belief in something without proof. Faith really boils down to belief in what someone you respect, or an authority tells you is true. To your point, especially in ancient history, what was recorded is difficult to cross reference to establish the veracity of the writings. When someone says they have faith in the bible, I think what they mean is they believe it when someone tells them that the bible is true.

I agree with you. I believe the bible because God told me it was true. My authority.

I would define morality as doing what is best for the well-being of humanity. I believe if that thought dominated the decisions of every human, we would do well indeed as a species.

Your speaking straight to my heart! I agree and you put it so eloquently too. Doing what is best for the well-being of humanity. In this respect we are like minded. Of course, you understand that if there is a God then the best thing for humanity would be to live according to the morality that he poses to be right.

To prove that you don't need a god for morality, suppose for a moment that there was no god and no bible. Would you commit murder, robbery, adultery? And if you think it more likely, would you want someone who committed those acts to be a member of your family? No sane person would, no god necessary.

Oops. You picked the wrong person to ask. Yes, I would and have. And they are members of my family. Here is where your belief makes a major mistake. If there is a God, and there is, then he may have done what he has claimed to do and write his law upon the heart of man. This would account for people like yourself who have a higher moral standard without a faith in God. As for people like me, I did all of my unlawful acts full well knowing that I was in the wrong. So you wouldn't want me in your family.

I was thinking more like Mithra (600BC). He was supposedly born on Dec. 25th, from a virgin while surrounded by magi. He had 12 disciples and went around teaching and performing miracles. His followers practiced a sacrament and held Sunday as sacred. He was buried in a tomb and rose after three days. Strange similarities I would say, all recorded starting 600 years BC.

On that note, actually several historic figures claim to share a birthday with Jesus:

Horus (c. 3000 BCE)
Osiris (c. 3000 BCE)
Attis of Phrygia (c.1400 BCE)
Krishna (c. 1400 BCE)
Zoroaster/Zarathustra (c. 1000 BCE)
Mithra of Persia (c. 600 BCE)
Heracles (c. 800 BCE)
Dionysus (c. 186 BCE)
Tammuz (c. 400 BCE)
Adonis (c. 200 BCE)
Hermes
Bacchus
Prometheus

6000 BCE. And we know that is fact how? We would have faith in this because what authority has told us it is correct? This is why I am pleading with you to understand that your atheism is faith based on either someone else telling you that it is true or your own personal intellect deciding for yourself through reason. It is faith.

May God bless you in all understanding of him,

Gary

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thanks for the welcome. I was raised in a Presbyterian home in the NC mountains and stayed with that through college. I never thought to question religion as I assumed its authenticity based on the authorities that told me it was true (parents, pastors, community, etc..). At some point after marriage I thought about going back to church. I suppose I was at the age to seriously question authority and its claims when I did. From there I started researching the claims of the bible and reading the arguments from both sides. It became clear to me that Christianity and I had differing opinions on a great many topics. Ultimately through research and reason, I came to the conclusion that there is no god (atheist). Thanks for asking.

Thanks for expanding a little of how you've come to believe as you believe.

You’re probably an avid reader, so let me have you look up a book which should provide entry into an arena you might find interesting. Since you’ve explained that you’ve come to your position by research and reason, this book should be right up your alley. Only place I've found it is on Amazon. It’s called “The Long War Against God” by Dr. Henry Morris, with a forward by David Jeremiah.

My brother in law an Astrophysicist and professor, found it rather interesting in the theoretical concepts provided within its pages. He started talking something about “marbles”, and was rather excited by them. I guess only a Scientist would find it worthy of deep thought. The only marbles I remember are the ones I played with as a child. So since I am not a scientist it required a rather determined “plowing” through those sections for me to finish the book. God does work in mysterious ways, since I’m the one who introduced him to the book and not the other way around

Just as a note, he believes in a God, and Christ Jesus as His Savior. He has let me know, he cannot advertise it because, academia not only frowns on anyone within the science community professing this belief, but they do a very good job of persecuting those who do.

There is one scripture in the Bible which you might digest. What would you say is the operative word out of this verse?

Romans 15:4 For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

I’ve looked high and low, in and out of science, and He’s the only one who has provided it.

You are in my prayers FreeReason.
C4E

 

[evan]

Advice needed

My husband is a temporary UCC pastor, I am praying he does not accept a permanant position at this church. I am not involved with the church out of fear of God. The first lady of the church (me) is absent.
The United Chuch of Christ on a national level make great boasts about how they are "open and affirming to the gay community".
These churches are ordaining gay pastors and the momentum continues.
I love my husband dearly but I told him I cannot follow him into ministry into this "church".
I question if I have made the right decision? Do I or don't I.

I told him if I do go to church I will feel obligated to the Lord to openly tell the church officers homosexuality is an obomination to God and they need to repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination, and that they need to immediately call the UCC office and tell them they need to withdraw their affiliation with the UCC list of churches.

There is another option for me.

First I will tell a little about the church background. This 100 year old restored church is nestled in the middle of small country town. When people dicide they want go to church they don't understand the church background, they just want to get closer to God so they go to this church. The biggest and prettiest church in town. These are people who don't know Jesus. I could lead these people to Jesus, let them know the church background and what the scripture says about homosexuality and let them dicide if they want to stay.
If my husband does not accept a permanant position, a gay pastor could take it.
My husband and I are from a non-denominational born again background.

I am intersted in your thoughts.

 

[FreeReason]

My husband is a temporary UCC pastor, I am praying he does not accept a permanant position at this church. I am not involved with the church out of fear of God. The first lady of the church (me) is absent.
The United Chuch of Christ on a national level make great boasts about how they are "open and affirming to the gay community".
These churches are ordaining gay pastors and the momentum continues.
I love my husband dearly but I told him I cannot follow him into ministry into this "church".
I question if I have made the right decision? Do I or don't I.

I told him if I do go to church I will feel obligated to the Lord to openly tell the church officers homosexuality is an obomination to God and they need to repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination, and that they need to immediately call the UCC office and tell them they need to withdraw their affiliation with the UCC list of churches.

There is another option for me.

First I will tell a little about the church background. This 100 year old restored church is nestled in the middle of small country town. When people dicide they want go to church they don't understand the church background, they just want to get closer to God so they go to this church. The biggest and prettiest church in town. These are people who don't know Jesus. I could lead these people to Jesus, let them know the church background and what the scripture says about homosexuality and let them dicide if they want to stay.
If my husband does not accept a permanant position, a gay pastor could take it.
My husband and I are from a non-denominational born again background.

I am intersted in your thoughts.

Evan,

Homosexuality is normal behavior in nature both for humans and animals. Studies have shown it to be a combination of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors that lead someone to have the predilection of preferring the company of the same sex.

To discriminate against homosexuals based on biblical bias is not only immoral, but cruel. Science has shown that homosexuals do not have negative psychological effects because of their genetics. However, ignorance and discrimination of homosexuality by society (exactly what you are doing) has been shown to cause significant harm to the individual.

So... aside from putting your husbands livelihood in jeopardy for your own bias, your discrimination against homosexuals is pernicious. You (and any church) that exiles homosexuals, are not persecuting them for any atrocity they have committed, but for being who they are. To say that because of their nature, they are not welcome in heaven but damned not only to suffer eternal torture after death, but also discrimination and ridicule while alive is inhuman.

I would advise a different tactic. Instead of asking officers to "repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination" because homosexuality is an abomination to god, why not recommend they leave because they are affiliated to an organization that promotes hatred and bigotry towards humanity.

 

[faithfulservant]

Evan,

Homosexuality is normal behavior in nature both for humans and animals. Studies have shown it to be a combination of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors that lead someone to have the predilection of preferring the company of the same sex.

To discriminate against homosexuals based on biblical bias is not only immoral, but cruel. Science has shown that homosexuals do not have negative psychological effects because of their genetics. However, ignorance and discrimination of homosexuality by society (exactly what you are doing) has been shown to cause significant harm to the individual.

So... aside from putting your husbands livelihood in jeopardy for your own bias, your discrimination against homosexuals is pernicious. You (and any church) that exiles homosexuals, are not persecuting them for any atrocity they have committed, but for being who they are. To say that because of their nature, they are not welcome in heaven but damned not only to suffer eternal torture after death, but also discrimination and ridicule while alive is inhuman.

I would advise a different tactic. Instead of asking officers to "repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination" because homosexuality is an abomination to god, why not recommend they leave because they are affiliated to an organization that promotes hatred and bigotry towards humanity.

You speak as if you are an authority, and you hold up worldly "science" and "logic" as if it were absolute. There are indeed laws of nature and physics, but none of them support homosexuality. Homosexuality is behavioral, not genetic. There is absolutely no proof it is genetic, either.

Anyone who would assert it was genetic without real proof is disingenuous, and supports a pointed agenda.

Here is my suggestion to you: Stop denying God for a moment. God isn't something to be "reasoned." He's a living Being. Christianity isn't a belief system people blindly cling to. It's the revelation of a holy God to His humbled creation.

Do you understand that? You're looking to dissuade others from something that's been revealed to them as truth. This truth does not come from man or worldly reasoning. God literally puts the knowledge of Him in our hearts and minds, and then He begins to work in us to change us. It's the greatest "Aha!" moment you will ever experience.

If we want to reason, we could reason a few simple things: People don't get to know God because they don't want there to be a God. Being accountable for their life is an uncomfortable prospect. It's far easier to continue in life assuming that they are the ultimate authority. Then, they live for destroying what God is trying to do instead of living for what God can do in them and in our world.

I encourage you to consider this. If you really want to know if there is a God, it's not that hard. You just need to humble yourself, turn from your sin and call out to Him to reveal Himself.

You are not the master of your destiny. There is something greater than you in this universe. Do you dare to open your mind enough to find out the truth? I assure you, you won't regret it.

 

[B-A-C]

Evan,

Homosexuality is normal behavior in nature both for humans and animals. Studies have shown it to be a combination of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors that lead someone to have the predilection of preferring the company of the same sex.

To discriminate against homosexuals based on biblical bias is not only immoral, but cruel. Science has shown that homosexuals do not have negative psychological effects because of their genetics. However, ignorance and discrimination of homosexuality by society (exactly what you are doing) has been shown to cause significant harm to the individual.

So... aside from putting your husbands livelihood in jeopardy for your own bias, your discrimination against homosexuals is pernicious. You (and any church) that exiles homosexuals, are not persecuting them for any atrocity they have committed, but for being who they are. To say that because of their nature, they are not welcome in heaven but damned not only to suffer eternal torture after death, but also discrimination and ridicule while alive is inhuman.

I would advise a different tactic. Instead of asking officers to "repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination" because homosexuality is an abomination to god, why not recommend they leave because they are affiliated to an organization that promotes hatred and bigotry towards humanity.

Interesting post. Believing in the Bible is immoral?

Homosexuality is indeed a normal behavior in some humans. Sin is normal behavior in all of us. Some are born liars, some are born theives, some are born child molesters. ..and yes, some are born with homosexual tendencies. But it doesn't make it right.

Don't do something because it's a abomination God? Do you even believe in God? If you believe he is your creator and has the power to save or destroy your soul why would anyone say something like this?

Science has proven.. (I have to laugh) science has proven the earth was the center of the universe, science has proven that the Earth is flat, science has proven nothing can move faster than the speed of light, science has proven a great many things that were later found out to be wrong.

You are right about one thing. We should love them, not hate them. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with their life style. I have a few homosexual friends (yes friends, really) but they know I don't approve of a certain part of their life.

As for it being destructive to the human race (quite a dramatic statement) consider this. The first commandment in the Bible given to humans was to "go forth and multiply". Homosexuals can not do this. If everyone was homosexual, there would be no human race. That is kind of destructive towards the human race as well.

Males and females are not only physically different, they are psychologically differernt as well. Why would a man step in front of a woman to protect her from something? Masculinity and feminenity are a bigger part of what makes us who we are than the way we look. The two opposites are meant to attract. (For this reason God made them male and female). To shunt this or ignore this also causes psychological damage.

Our relationship with God, is much like our relationship with friends. We can do things because "we have to". Or we can do things because we want to do them for the other person if they asked us to. If we truly love them, it will be the second reason. We don't have to obey all the "rules" of the Bible, in fact I frequently break at least one of them on a daily basis. But I don't go around telling other people it's OK. In fact I usually feel guilty about it and ask God for forgiveness. God loves homosexuals, but not homosexulaity. We shouldn't be telling other people it's ok.

 

[B-A-C]

Evan,

Homosexuality is normal behavior in nature both for humans and animals. Studies have shown it to be a combination of genetic, hormonal and environmental factors that lead someone to have the predilection of preferring the company of the same sex.

To discriminate against homosexuals based on biblical bias is not only immoral, but cruel. Science has shown that homosexuals do not have negative psychological effects because of their genetics. However, ignorance and discrimination of homosexuality by society (exactly what you are doing) has been shown to cause significant harm to the individual.

So... aside from putting your husbands livelihood in jeopardy for your own bias, your discrimination against homosexuals is pernicious. You (and any church) that exiles homosexuals, are not persecuting them for any atrocity they have committed, but for being who they are. To say that because of their nature, they are not welcome in heaven but damned not only to suffer eternal torture after death, but also discrimination and ridicule while alive is inhuman.

I would advise a different tactic. Instead of asking officers to "repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination" because homosexuality is an abomination to god, why not recommend they leave because they are affiliated to an organization that promotes hatred and bigotry towards humanity.

Interesting post. Believing in the Bible is immoral?

Homosexuality is indeed a normal behavior in some humans. Sin is normal behavior in all of us. Some are born liars, some are born theives, some are born child molesters. ..and yes, some are born with homosexual tendencies. But it doesn't make it right.

Don't do something because it's a abomination God? Do you even believe in God? If you believe he is your creator and has the power to save or destroy your soul why would anyone say something like this?

Science has proven.. (I have to laugh) science has proven the earth was the center of the universe, science has proven that the Earth is flat, science has proven nothing can move faster than the speed of light, science has proven a great many things that were later found out to be wrong.

You are right about one thing. We should love them, not hate them. But it doesn't mean we have to agree with their life style. I have a few homosexual friends (yes friends, really) but they know I don't approve of a certain part of their life.

As for it being destructive to the human race (quite a dramatic statement) consider this. The first commandment in the Bible given to humans was to "go forth and multiply". Homosexuals can not do this. If everyone was homosexual, there would be no human race. That is kind of destructive towards the human race as well.

Males and females are not only physically different, they are psychologically differernt as well. Why would a man step in front of a woman to protect her from something? Masculinity and feminenity are a bigger part of what makes us who we are than the way we look. The two opposites are meant to attract. (For this reason God made them male and female). To shunt this or ignore this also causes psychological damage.

Our relationship with God, is much like our relationship with friends. We can do things because "we have to". Or we can do things because we want to do them for the other person if they asked us to. If we truly love them, it will be the second reason. We don't have to obey all the "rules" of the Bible, in fact I frequently break at least one of them on a daily basis. But I don't go around telling other people it's OK. In fact I usually feel guilty about it and ask God for forgiveness. God loves homosexuals, but not homosexuality. We shouldn't be telling other people it's ok.

 

[evan]

Need advice (again)

My husband is a temporary UCC pastor, I am praying he does not accept a permanant position at this church. I am not involved with the church out of fear of God. The first lady of the church (me) is absent.
The United Chuch of Christ on a national level make great boasts about how they are "open and affirming to the gay community".
These churches are ordaining gay pastors and the momentum continues.
I love my husband dearly but I told him I cannot follow him into ministry into this "church".
I question if I have made the right decision? Do I or don't I follow him to ministry or just find my own church in the same city.

I told him if I do go to church with him I will feel obligated to the Lord to openly tell the church officers homosexuality is an obomination to God and they need to repent of the sin of entering into the UCC denomination, and that they need to immediately call the UCC office and tell them they need to withdraw their affiliation with the UCC list of churches.

There is another option for me.

First I will tell a little about the church background. This 100 year old restored church is nestled in the middle of small country town. When people dicide they want go to church they don't understand the church background, they just want to get closer to God so they go to this church. The biggest and prettiest church in town. These are people who don't know Jesus. I could lead these people to Jesus, let them know the church background and what the scripture says about homosexuality and let them dicide if they want to stay.
If my husband does not accept a permanant position, a gay pastor could take it.
My husband and I are from a non-denominational born again background but we are from different conviction with our views. My husband believes gay people are born that way, I do not believe they are born that way.

I am intersted in your thoughts.

P.S.
B-A-C and ByGraceAlone,
Thank you so much for your replies.

I felt so sick and discouraged by FreeReason's reply. I get so much similar feedback, even from Christians.

B-A-C and ByGraceAlone or any serious Christian please read my request for advice and answer even if there is a distraction reply.

Thanks

 

[evan]

Thank you

B-A-C and ByGraceAlone,
Thank you so much for your replies.

I felt so sick and discouraged by FreeReason's reply. I get so much similar feedback, even from Christians.

B-A-C and ByGraceAlone or any serious Christian please read my request for advice from my last posting above this one and answer even if there is a distraction reply.

Thanks