Homosexuality

[B-A-C]

Evan,
The Bible predicts some churches will fall away from the truth in the last days. Some churches let society and peer pressure rather than the Bible determine their doctrine. Some churches let the fear of smaller attendance and receiving less tithes keep them from offending some people. Jesus wasn't afraid to offend people when it came to the truth. He called the Pharisees a brood of vipers and hypocrites. He called Satan the father of lies.

I quit attending the Lutheran ELCA church for the exact reason you mention above. I was not alone, a great number of the church left. I would be interested to know their interpretation of the following verses, but in the course of the last 2 years, they have refused to answer my questions.

Lev 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Lev 20:13 'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.

Gen 19:5 and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them."
Gen 19:6 But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him,
Gen 19:7 and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.
Gen 19:8 "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof."
Gen 19:12 Then the two men said to Lot, "Whom else have you here? A son-in-law, and your sons, and your daughters, and whomever you have in the city, bring them out of the place;
Gen 19:13 for we are about to destroy this place, because their outcry has become so great before the LORD that the LORD has sent us to destroy it."
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven,

Rom 1:26 For this reason God allowed their shameful passions to control them. Their women have exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.
Rom 1:27 Likewise, their men have given up natural sexual relations with women and burn with lust for each other. Men commit indecent acts with men, so they experience among themselves the punishment they deserve for their perversion.
Rom 1:32 Although they know God's judgment that those who do such things deserve to die, they not only do these things but also approve of others who do them.

1Co 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

μαλακός
malakos; a prim. word; soft, effeminate: - effeminate (1), soft (3).

1Ti 1:9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers
1Ti 1:10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching,

ar-sen-ok-oy'-tace
a sodomite: - abuser of (that defile) self with mankind

 

[Peace Seeker]

The United Chuch of Christ on a national level make great boasts about how they are "open and affirming to the gay community".
These churches are ordaining gay pastors and the momentum continues.
I love my husband dearly but I told him I cannot follow him into ministry into this "church".

I question if I have made the right decision? Do I or don't I follow him to ministry or just find my own church in the same city.

I would not follow him and I believe your decision is right and to be commended! It is not always easy to take up our cross and follow the Lord, but we are nonetheless commanded to do it, and will be blessed greatly for our faithfulness in doing it!

It is better to please God than man, but all the worldly, "inclusive" churches are pleasing man rather than God. Churches like yours are all blind guides leading the blind into a pit. We are commanded to come out of Babylon, lest we partake of her plagues.

You probably know this scripture passage, and other applicable ones that say we should not unite ourselves with the sexually immoral.

1 Corinthians 6:9-20
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Sexual Immorality

12 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16 Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17 But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit.[c] 18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.

My husband believes gay people are born that way, I do not believe they are born that way.

My reply to that is God doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't tell us to be fruitful and multiply, and then say, "oops, how silly of me, I didn't give you (gays) a way to do that!"

And if God made them that way, then what of the numerous former gays that are now born-again Christians, living as normal, well-adjusted heterosexuals? Does that mean God made another mistake? First He makes them gay, then he makes them straight? God does not change and He does not have an unstable mind like that!
Lastly, on the subject of being born gay, just because we are born a certain way, is no reason to necessarily embrace it! If I am born an alcoholic, shall I embrace it and drink my way into an early grave? God also says he makes some vessels of honor and others vessels of wrath. That is a serious thing to consider!
We are all accountable to God in the end.
Blessing to you, sister!

 

[evan]

Thank you B-A-C and Peace Seeker. For months I have been laboring in trying to find God's will if I should follow my husband into this ministry or not, is has been the reason for many sleepness nights. You see my son is gay and also. So I seek truth not only for my husband but my son also. I know your words are true. My husband is backslidden, we are very poor and I am almost deaf and don't know sign laguage I have been out of fellowship for over 2 years because I can't hear in church and have no transportation to church so I had just me and Jesus to figure this stuff out on my own agaist great opposition from my husband. Your counsel confirms what the Lord had shown me. When I told him I will not follow him to the church he threatened to withhold from me love, attention, and my allowance. He sees my lack of support as a threat because without the housing benefit of a parsonage we are homeless because my husband corrupted our finances and we can't rent or own a house. Also if he doesn't get this job we will continue to not have health insurance for our family including 2 of our children. I have a chronic muscular disorder and suffer without my medication, My protest is at a great price. He has finally accepted the fact that I will not go to the church with him and he is at least acting like he accepts it. His first sermon is the 2nd Sun in Jan. This coming weekend he has arranged for me and him to get together with a pastor and his wife from the Lutheren ELCA in a desparate attempt to pursuade me to change my mind and get me to join him in the UCC church. I have no one else to turn to for counsel we have a long history of discord in our marriage he gets angry if I confide in any one about our problems but I am overwhelmed going through this alone. The only thing i am wondering about is the thought of going into this ministry to minister to those who are unaware of the UCC background and are "going to church to get closer to God". I have decided against it until I hear from the Lord. Thank you again for your replies I read them over and over again prayerfully so I fully understand God heart. I think it is safe to say I am a persecuted Christian and your words are helping me keep my sanity. Please reply to this email it is keeping me alive.

 

[Peace Seeker]

Dear Evan, my heart goes out to you!!!

You are indeed a persecuted Christian! And I don't claim to know what you are going through, because I am not physically going through it with you. But be assured that I am mentally and spiritually going through it with you!!
I have said a tear-filled prayer for you and I am confident that whatever happens God's anointing is and will be on you in a mighty way. Cling to the Lord and don't let go of Him!

I know words are often little comfort, but try to remember you are laying up some serious treasures for yourself in heaven. You are being blessed for being persecuted for the sake of righteousness! God will not forsake you or leaving you wanting. When you are weak, He will make you strong.

Matthew 5:11-12 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.


1Peter4:12
Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed you may also be glad with exceeding joy.

Joshua 1:9
Be strong and courageous. Do not be terrified; do not be discouraged, for the LORD your God will be with you wherever you go."

As to your question about whether you should go into that ministry to minister to those who are unaware of the UCC background and are "going to church to get closer to God", I don't have an answer for that. I do know that God can use any circumstance and turn it into good, but we must seek His will. We should also not yoke ourselves with apostates.

Ephesians 5:3-4 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

I am praying for your husband too, that he will hear the Lord and have the courage to stand for God and not for himself. God bless you, with an outpouring of His awesome grace, love and protection as you go through this ordeal.

 

[faithfulservant]

B-A-C and ByGraceAlone,
Thank you so much for your replies.

I felt so sick and discouraged by FreeReason's reply. I get so much similar feedback, even from Christians.

B-A-C and ByGraceAlone or any serious Christian please read my request for advice from my last posting above this one and answer even if there is a distraction reply.

Thanks

Stand strong in the truth. It appears your husband is compromising for the sake of a position in this church. That's very bad, but you cannot force him to do anything. I am going to pray on this and come back later.

blessings to you in the name of our Lord Jesus.

 

[evan]

Thank you

Thank you PeaceSeeker and ByGraceAlone for your reply. Please forgive me for the desperation tone in my last email. Earlier that evening I got into a heated discussion with my son about his homosexuality and it left me shook up. In general,I am more stable in coping God has given me much grace and strength most of the time. My husband is gentle and kind most of the time, I get shook up when we are not unified like we have been for many years. I think I have had an unhealthy identification problem with my husband for many years and I am reading the bible and praying often much these days to have a healthy identification and self esteem in my self in Jesus. This way I am able to not get shook up so easily. It also helps when I forgive my husband and my son immediately and get back to loving on them as a loving mother and wife. My husband has a home based business that has started to do well so we are coming out of poverty quickly. I overlook this when I am "shook up".
We have many children, all young adults. I pray often my husband will come back to God the way he was before. I believe God is able to do this. It is best for my wayward adult children and his soul also. God has given me the ability to walk above it all, far above it all in Jesus.I must look to Him. I also am waiting on the Lord expectantly to show me if I am to follow him into this church in spite of the abomination.I know the Lord won't keep his will for me a secret. Two things that are keeping me from going into the ministry with him is the fact that he can turn on me unexpectedly not physically but emotionally, and also I get confused if he is saved at times. If he is not saved, we will not be going out "two by two" like we have in the past.
I will continue to read the bible and pray much morning day and night for guidance. Thank you for your prayers and support.

 

[Kit Carson]

Thank you PeaceSeeker and ByGraceAlone for your reply. Please forgive me for the desperation tone in my last email. Earlier that evening I got into a heated discussion with my son about his homosexuality and it left me shook up. In general,I am more stable in coping God has given me much grace and strength most of the time. My husband is gentle and kind most of the time, I get shook up when we are not unified like we have been for many years. I think I have had an unhealthy identification problem with my husband for many years and I am reading the bible and praying often much these days to have a healthy identification and self esteem in my self in Jesus. This way I am able to not get shook up so easily. It also helps when I forgive my husband and my son immediately and get back to loving on them as a loving mother and wife. My husband has a home based business that has started to do well so we are coming out of poverty quickly. I overlook this when I am "shook up".
We have many children, all young adults. I pray often my husband will come back to God the way he was before. I believe God is able to do this. It is best for my wayward adult children and his soul also. God has given me the ability to walk above it all, far above it all in Jesus.I must look to Him. I also am waiting on the Lord expectantly to show me if I am to follow him into this church in spite of the abomination.I know the Lord won't keep his will for me a secret. Two things that are keeping me from going into the ministry with him is the fact that he can turn on me unexpectedly not physically but emotionally, and also I get confused if he is saved at times. If he is not saved, we will not be going out "two by two" like we have in the past.
I will continue to read the bible and pray much morning day and night for guidance. Thank you for your prayers and support.

Give it time.

Do not refuse to go out or to keep an even keel, nothing but distance is the result of that.

As Paul says in Corinthians , man and wife can live together, the children are sanctioned, one or the other may or may not change. But you can live in peace.

God knows our hearts. So as some have tried to say in some posts, that they reject a church for this or for that is wise, but all churches have something. None of them seem to follow as they should. As a church is made up of us, it will have us in it. So mistakes and some things do show up.

But Jesus sat with the sinners, and was not effected, so fear of this is unfounded.

The youngsters today have a great many challenges, and it may be a few years before he changes, or he may never, but it is his choice, with a little convincing from Mom.

Basically just saying, use your own heart, listen to God, not to others as we can live in peace, no need to do otherwise.

As far a being saved, he is, like it says in John chapter 10 verses 27 to 30. No one can snatch you. We belong to Christ. Like a wise old preacher told me once, he said, Kit you are in a circle, God is in the circle and you may get all the way out to the edge and almost fall off but God will not let you. I always remember that when folks are troubled as I was at that time.

Smile, give it time, I was once a hard head too. I got out on the edge a couple times. It took me some time also.

Kit

 

[Peace Seeker]

Like a wise old preacher told me once, he said, Kit you are in a circle, God is in the circle and you may get all the way out to the edge and almost fall off but God will not let you.

Very nicely said! There is a difference between rejecting God and merely getting lost and straying. The Good Shepherd looks for and always finds His lost and straying sheep.

 

[Peace Seeker]

Please forgive me for the desperation tone in my last email.

Nothing to forgive. God gave us emotions and it is natural to use them.

My husband is gentle and kind most of the time, I get shook up when we are not unified like we have been for many years. I think I have had an unhealthy identification problem with my husband for many years and I am reading the bible and praying often much these days to have a healthy identification and self esteem in my self in Jesus.

I have watched for many years how my mom has, like you, had an unhealthy identity problem with my dad. She has no self esteem either, because my dad is so insecure that he needs to keep her down with him. I am glad you are turning this problem over to the Lord in bible study and and prayer, because Jesus highly esteems us and wants us to have confidence in who we are in Him.

This way I am able to not get shook up so easily. It also helps when I forgive my husband and my son immediately and get back to loving on them as a loving mother and wife.

Absolutely. When we don't forgive the offender it doesn’t hurt the offender, it hurts us. Unforgiveness is like drinking poison and hoping the other person will die.

If he is not saved, we will not be going out "two by two" like we have in the past.

When your husband (or any of us) is low in faith Jesus is still faithful and will not lose anyone that the Father has given to Him. I am continuing to pray for you and your husband and thanking God for His astounding love and compassion towards us!

 

[evan]

Thanks again

Thank you for listening Kit, Grace and Peace I have been wrestlling with these emotions alone for about a month. It was good to process my thoughts in written form. I'm going to meet up with a friend in a couple of weeks and run this by her, I'm not going to keep this by myself any more. May God Bless you. Your comments and thoughts were greatly appreciated.

 

[Peace Seeker]

I'm going to meet up with a friend in a couple of weeks and run this by her, I'm not going to keep this by myself any more.

That's a great idea, you shouldn't be alone with all of this. Reach out to others whenever you can and allow them to comfort and support you and get some wind back in your sails.

 

[faithfulservant]

Thank you for listening Kit, Grace and Peace I have been wrestlling with these emotions alone for about a month. It was good to process my thoughts in written form. I'm going to meet up with a friend in a couple of weeks and run this by her, I'm not going to keep this by myself any more. May God Bless you. Your comments and thoughts were greatly appreciated.

I have a message from the LORD for you, Evan: He wants me to tell you He loves you so very much! And you are right in the palm of His mighty hand, so you shouldn't fear or worry.

You cannot control the decisions your husband makes, but you can protect your own heart and mind and stay very close to the Lord during all this. Pray for your husband, pray for the people who go to his church, but do not compromise His truth. You don't need to play along with what your husband is doing.

I also think it's a good idea you connect with other Spirit-led believers in the Body. If you aren't a part of a church or prayer group that is grounded in Biblical truths, find one.

Stay strong in the LORD, give all your worries to Him. Jesus will give you peace, comfort, and wisdom through all of this.

 

[evan]

Good word

Thank you for your reply Peace.. and for your word from the Lord ByGraceAlone. I hope in the future I will be able to help others on TalkJesus like you helped me.

 

[Peace Seeker]

I hope in the future I will be able to help others on TalkJesus like you helped me.

I believe you will be able to, that God puts us through trials so that we can gain the experience needed to help others, if that is God's specific will for us to do. One of my favorite verses on that matter, is :

2 Corinthians 1:3-7Praise to the God of All Comfort

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, 4 who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. 5 For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. 6 If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation; if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer. 7 And our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort.

That really sums it up to me! Blessings to you, sister!

 

[DraKKar]

Does anyone not think that gay Christians will enter heaven?

 

[philosopher]

Does anyone not think that gay Christians will enter heaven?

Well, I for one think that homosexuality isn't a ''choice'' emotionally, but the decision to act on the feelings is - and this is what can lead a person to damnation. Scientists haven't found any gay genes, but it is generally accepted that human sexuality is formed during a child's early years. Think of it like a window, and during this time it's open, whatever stimuli or environmental influences come through can have a molding effect.

This is why I'm generally very sympathetic towards people who struggle with these affections, because society and even some Christian circles, like to ostracize them.

So no, if a Christian doesn't act on these temptations or repents of the deed, they can still enter Heaven. People with mental illnesses sometimes struggle with blasphemous thoughts, so should they be excluded from entering paradise based on something they cannot always control?

People all around the world struggle with perverse thoughts or desires at times, they key is drawing near and being satisfied with Jesus Christ who can help us to overcome ALL things. By the way, I've read some genuine and very inspirational testimonies of Christians who have been delivered of their homosexuality before. Nothing is impossible for God. Remember that.

 

[Brother Mike]

Jesus said.

To give an opinion on this is to not be Like Jesus. Jesus said I judge no man even if they obey not the word. He also said he does not judge after the flesh as man does.

To put someone in Hell for what they are allowing in their own life makes me a Judge, there is only one judge that will make that judgement for Hell. That is God.

I personally would not like to die a Homosexual with the knowledge I have now, I would not be able to have the confidence that I would be going to Heaven.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Does anyone not think that gay Christians will enter heaven?

Actually there won't be any sinners in heaven.

Maybe "ex" ones, but no practicing ones

 

[B-A-C]

Does anyone not think that gay Christians will enter heaven?

It all comes down to the heart. We never conquer the flesh while we ares till alive in this body. Sin is sin, you could ask the same question, will smokers, drug users, fornicators and adulterers enter heaven? I think some will. The question I would ask is.. are they repentant? Maybe they are struggling with a given sin, but they admit it's sin, ask for forgiveness and do their best "to go and sin no more".

On the other hand, if they are just dismissing sin, or denying that it even is sin (therefore there is no need to repent) I'm not so sure. Our salvation depends on us recognizing ourselves as sinners in need of a savior, and asking for forgiveness for these sins.