How can Jesus be God, yet not know things?

[RJ]

Wait a minute.....who was this that Moses was able to see?

Jesus said NO MAN has seen God the Father!

John 1
[18] No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

So who was it that Moses saw?

.

Well, I believe I gave you the verse from Exodus, is this not the holy word of God? Who do you think it is that Moses saw his back-side? Exodus 33: 21-23

 

[Eccl12v13]

Well, I believe I gave you the verse from Exodus, is this not the holy word of God? Who do you think it is that Moses saw his back-side? Exodus 33: 21-23

Well....whoever it was we know for a fact it could NOT have been God the Father.

Because if it was God the Father then Jesus LIED to us!

St. John 5
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

St. John 6
[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So tell me....did Moses see the shape of God the Father...or did Jesus LIE to us?

And if it was not God the Father...then WHO?

.

 

[RJ]

Well....whoever it was we know for a fact it could NOT have been God the Father.

Because if it was God the Father then Jesus LIED to us!

St. John 5
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

St. John 6
[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

So tell me....did Moses see the shape of God the Father...or did Jesus LIE to us?

And if it was not God the Father...then WHO?

.

Why do you say we know for a fact?
Please don't count me in on that!!

The only thing I know fact, is that Jesus is Lord and Savior and that I am saved!

WHAT? This was only God meeting with Moses up on Mt. Sinai; How is it you have never heard of this? Can you say the Exodus and the place where God gave Moses the 10 commandements........He put his hand over Mose's face and Moses saw his backside.

What Bible have you been reading? And you want us to take an interest in your knowledge of the scriptures?

I wouldn't even come close to even trying to insinuate that Jesus is a lier!....I don't suppose it is at all possible that you have interpretated wrong what he said?

Or is it just that you just can't adequately explian both scriptures and still support what ever theoogy your pushing.

God of Mt. Sinai, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit are all the same....it is one of God's mysteries that you can not totally explain, not in this life...get over it!

 

[Eccl12v13]

I wouldn't even come close to even trying to insinuate that Jesus is a lier!....

I know for a fact that Jesus cannot lie....He told us so;

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

And since I KNOW that He cannot lie ALL of the scriptures MUST be true; These below....

St. John 5
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
St. John 6
[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

As WELL as these....

Exd. 24
[9] Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
[10] And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
[11] And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Exd. 33
[23] And I will take mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Now anyone reading this must come to a common sense conclusion here;

If Jesus CANNOT LIE. Then the following MUST be true; NO MAN has EVER seen God OR His shape at ANYTIME!

Now when we include the following scripture;

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Then that would be ALL of the writings in the bible; Gen. to Rev., in which Moses wrote; 70 of the elders SAW the HANDS and FEET of God. Moses tells us; "...also they saw God."

Now either Moses AND Jesus were both lying OR............

It was someone OTHER than God that Father that was seen and heard in the OT!

Now you present the following;

Or is it just that you just can't adequately explian both scriptures and still support what ever theoogy your pushing.

But that fact of the matter is that it's not ME that can't explain it. God has already done that for us.

Let's read WHO it was that was the God of the OT;

1Cor.10
[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Now let's read what the God of the OT said would happen to Him;

Zech.12
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,….

And now let's read of a conversation Moses had with God, then read WHO this person really was;

Exd. 32
[31] And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
[32] Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of
thy book which thou has written.
[33] And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will
I blot out of my book.

Now let’s go to the (NT) in the book of Revelation and see who will be blotting names out of the Book of Life.


Rev. 3
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white rainment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels

So it was Jesus Christ that Moses spoke to in the Old Testament and asked to blot his name out of the book of life.

And now let's read of a conversation that Abraham had with the God of the OT, then read who THAT person was that Abraham spoke with;

Gen.18
[24] Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
[25] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Now let’s find out who it is that will judge “…all the earth…“, and who gave him the authority. Let us go to St. John and read what Jesus has to say on the matter.

St. John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son;
[26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given unto the Son to have life in himself.
[27] And hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man.


So Jesus, Moses or ANY of those that wrote the bible were NOT lying. ALL of God's words are true.

It was Jesus that was the God of the OT.

Now you claim the following;

God of Mt. Sinai, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit are all the same....

But God's word NEVER says that! God's word tells us they are ONE! Then God does not just leave it there for us to figure out just HOW they are one. He goes on to give us the ONLY explanation in the entire bible of HOW they are one. This can be found in John 17.

I have given ample scriptures of how God word tells us that it was Jesus Christ that was the God of the OT.

Is it possible for you to provide scriptures that state, "

God of Mt. Sinai, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit are all the same...."?

.

 

[RJ]

I know for a fact that Jesus cannot lie....He told us so;

"In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;"

And since I KNOW that He cannot lie ALL of the scriptures MUST be true; These below....

St. John 5
[37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
St. John 6
[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

As WELL as these....

Exd. 24
[9] Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
[10] And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
[11] And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.
Exd. 33
[23] And I will take mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Now anyone reading this must come to a common sense conclusion here;

If Jesus CANNOT LIE. Then the following MUST be true; NO MAN has EVER seen God OR His shape at ANYTIME!

Now when we include the following scripture;

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

Then that would be ALL of the writings in the bible; Gen. to Rev., in which Moses wrote; 70 of the elders SAW the HANDS and FEET of God. Moses tells us; "...also they saw God."

Now either Moses AND Jesus were both lying OR............

It was someone OTHER than God that Father that was seen and heard in the OT!

Now you present the following;



But that fact of the matter is that it's not ME that can't explain it. God has already done that for us.

Let's read WHO it was that was the God of the OT;

1Cor.10
[1] Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
[2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
[4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Now let's read what the God of the OT said would happen to Him;

Zech.12
[10] And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,….

And now let's read of a conversation Moses had with God, then read WHO this person really was;

Exd. 32
[31] And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold.
[32] Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin-; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of
thy book which thou has written.
[33] And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will
I blot out of my book.

Now let’s go to the (NT) in the book of Revelation and see who will be blotting names out of the Book of Life.


Rev. 3
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white rainment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels

So it was Jesus Christ that Moses spoke to in the Old Testament and asked to blot his name out of the book of life.

And now let's read of a conversation that Abraham had with the God of the OT, then read who THAT person was that Abraham spoke with;

Gen.18
[24] Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
[25] That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Now let’s find out who it is that will judge “…all the earth…“, and who gave him the authority. Let us go to St. John and read what Jesus has to say on the matter.

St. John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgement unto the Son;
[26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given unto the Son to have life in himself.
[27] And hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man.


So Jesus, Moses or ANY of those that wrote the bible were NOT lying. ALL of God's words are true.

It was Jesus that was the God of the OT.

Now you claim the following;



But God's word NEVER says that! God's word tells us they are ONE! Then God does not just leave it there for us to figure out just HOW they are one. He goes on to give us the ONLY explanation in the entire bible of HOW they are one. This can be found in John 17.

I have given ample scriptures of how God word tells us that it was Jesus Christ that was the God of the OT.

Is it possible for you to provide scriptures that state, "

God of Mt. Sinai, Jesus, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit are all the same...."?

.

Again, respectfully, you go to no end to quote many verses that does not support your line of reasoning.

And now, you all of a sudden agree with me that the Jesus was the God of the OT:
Jesus is God, God is God, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, God is the Holy Spirt, the Holy Spirit is God and the Holy Spirit is Jesus.


The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις):<SUP id=cite_ref-Catholic_Encyclopedia_0-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι). Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being (Greek: οὐσία).<SUP id=cite_ref-Systematic_theology_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP> The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.<SUP id=cite_ref-Catholic_Catechism_2-0 class=reference>[3]</SUP>

I am truly sorry for this but, yours is a mystery also...a mystery of confusion. I am now done with this thread; your are welcome to the last word!

God Bless

 

[Eccl12v13]

Again, respectfully, you go to no end to quote many verses that does not support your line of reasoning.

Jesus said that NO MAN has seen or heard God the Father!
The Bible says that ALL of the words in it were inspired by God!
The bible says that Jesus CANNOT lie!

But yet we have verses in the bible that clealy state that at least 70 people saw the God of Israel!

There are scriptures that say Jesus was the one that made everything and also fed the nation of Israel spiritual food in the wilderness!

There are scriptures that clearly state that God the Father will NOT be the Judge of man, but Abraham said that the God He spoke with WILL be the judge of ALL the earth!

The God of the OT said that there will be those that look upon HIM who they have pierced!

Jesus prays to God the Father in the garden before His death.

And from the mouth of Jesus He tells us NOT that He, the Father and the Holy Ghost are one, as in one in the same, but that they ALL are ONE because they ALL have the same message in John 17.

Think about it....

If they are ONE, as in one in the same, how can you blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and not the Father or Son?

Luke.12
[10] And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

If they are ONE, as in one in the same, how can the Father know the time and the hour, but NOT the Holy Spirit or the Son?

Mark.13
[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

If they are ONE, as in one in the same, how can the Son judge WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost.

John.5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Jesus tells us the ONLY way He, the Father and the Holy spirit are one......and He does NOT tell us they are ALL one in the same.


My line of reasoning is VERY strong....it comes from the word of God!


.

 

[Eccl12v13]

Jesus is God, God is God, Jesus is the Holy Spirit, God is the Holy Spirt, the Holy Spirit is God and the Holy Spirit is Jesus.


The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις):<SUP id=cite_ref-Catholic_Encyclopedia_0-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι). Put another way, the three persons of the Trinity are of one being (Greek: οὐσία).<SUP id=cite_ref-Systematic_theology_1-0 class=reference>[2]</SUP> The Trinity is considered to be a mystery of Christian faith.<SUP id=cite_ref-Catholic_Catechism_2-0 class=reference>[3]</SUP>

OK,,,,now that we have read MAN's take Can anyone direct me to the book, chapter and verses that says ANY of the above?

We know that Jesus is God;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

We know that God the Father is God;

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

But WHERE does it say at ANYTIME, in ALL of the bible, that the Holy Spirit is GOD?


Just ONCE would be great!


.

 

[WantToKnowHim]

"We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. And so we know and rely on the love God has for us."
1 John 4:13-16



I think that the Holy Spirit is God, dwelling among us...

 

[Kit Carson]

I am not very traditional.
Consider the fact that we are also a part of God. Once we accept God and allow him to enter our life by free will he will guide our spirit, so you could say in effect we are the forth part of the whole.

Do we know much, not a lot. Only what we stumble around and discover and what God reveals to us.

So consider God the father who has always been and always will be with other parts. Jesus the son had a mission, a goal, to come and make the ultimate sacrifice for us. To put a stop to mans ways and traditions that were not working by the law. So God created the final solution. As Jesus was spirit or the Word in human form, and subject to the things God revealed to him just as we are, then he did not know all of Gods plan.

Then the Holy Spirit was sent to guide us, if we so allow it. The last part of the plan by God for us.

It is so very simple for me to understand, I know not for many as they try to make it so complicated, when it is actually so very simple.

It is all one, but different parts, each with a purpose, but all a part of the whole.

Kit

 

[RJ]

OK,,,,now that we have read MAN's take Can anyone direct me to the book, chapter and verses that says ANY of the above?

We know that Jesus is God;

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

We know that God the Father is God;

"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

But WHERE does it say at ANYTIME, in ALL of the bible, that the Holy Spirit is GOD?


Just ONCE would be great!


.

I am going to try one more time:

Well, at least, you beleive the Lord is God, right?

Since you do, please interpret this verse and tell us what you think it says!:

2 Cor. 3:16-18, "but whenever a man turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit."


In addition:

Genesis 1:2 (NASB95)
The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters

If the Spirit is of God......it is God!

Know, if you are going to quibble over what does is , of or, is of actually means against all the adequate verses that have been given you through out all these many threads and by many different people, then, at this time, you are incapable of undertanding the Trinity.