How do I accept Jesus as my Savior?

[RJ]

This cannot go unchallenged. What complete rubbish.

Well yea @Waggles, THAT is a matter of opinion.
So, let me get this straight: I was born of the spirit and I know the day and time but, it was with out of the water, so, you are stating, as far as you are concerned, that experience of mine was pure rubbish and I am not saved and will go to hell unless I get water baptized!

 

[RJ]

When did Ephesians 2:8-9 supersede and make null and void the great Pentecostal Revival ministries of Smith Wigglesworth and John G. Lake?

• Just like the New Testament of Grace supersedes the Old Testament of the law of requirements but, I am sure you disagree with that too!
  
• So, when God says, "you are saved by grace through faith and not of your own works, he mis-stated?...What he meant was that you are saved by Grace through faith and this is not of your works except for "Your" act of water baptism, which is required for your salvation.

 

[RJ]

You apparently misunderstood what I wrote.

That is a relief....I must have...please accept my apologies....sorry!
Then you are saying is that, though water baptism is a great thing to do as an outward expression of your faith and following in Jesus footsteps , water baptism is not a requirement of salvation and God infusing the Holy Spirit in you?

 

[amadeus2]

That is a relief....I must have...please accept my apologies....sorry!

Apology not required, but accepted.

Then you are saying is that, though water baptism is a great thing to do as an outward expression of your faith and following in Jesus footsteps , water baptism is not a requirement of salvation and God infusing the Holy Spirit in you?

Not exactly but close! How close do we have to be if our hearts are right?

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

 

[RJ]

Not exactly but close!

You will have to explain...either water baptism is required for salvation or it isn't?

 

[amadeus2]

You will have to explain...either water baptism is required for salvation or it isn't?

Brother, I don't like black and white answers for every situation because in real situations there can be exceptions. God make the exceptions, however, rather than you or I.

Consider these verses:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" II Cor 6:14

Yet here in the OT we see this:

"The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD." Hosea 1:2

Now one is in the NT and the other in the OT, but if we search the NT and the OT we will find scriptures advising us that God does not change. The solution in this case apparently because God had a purpose in it, the marriage of Hosea, a prophet of God to a woman still purposely engaged in was approved.

The right answer for today's situation or problem is God's answer today, which sometimes may not agree precisely with His answer what a similar situation yesterday.

But... with regard to baptism now, I would say in every case where possible a new convert should be baptized in water, unless God tells him not to do it.

 

[RJ]

Sorry but,!

 

[Chopper]

Hi folks, Chopper here. It's been a while since I was on this Forum, quite frankly, being a Christian Psychologist plus Baptist Preacher makes for very busy days, even though I'm retired. I guess old Preachers never retire.

If you folks don't mind, I'd like to share with you my thoughts on water Baptism and the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

First of all, when a person is drawn to Jesus the Son of God for Salvation, and he/she repents of their sins, asking for forgiveness, receiving Jesus as their Lord (Master Owner) and Savior, they must be baptized by immersion shortly after Salvation. You say "what if they don't get water baptized?" It has been my observance that that person will never receive the fullness of the Holy Spirit. They will always be babes in Christ, never attaining maturity.

I'd like everyone to know that the Disciples of Christ Jesus who would later become Apostles, were the forerunners for us. One such occasion of this is found in John 20:22 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

As you can see, this is the first instance of a Believer in Jesus the Son of God to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. As a forerunner for us, this means that when we become truly saved the Holy Spirit indwells all who become saved. Once the person is water Baptized, the potential of being filled with the Holy Spirit is realized. Sometimes a person needs an Elder to lay hands on the person for spiritual illumination so that they can understand the Scriptures.

There is a second work of grace for those Believers who desire to go on further with serving the Lord Jesus Christ. There are many ministries in our local Churches that need Holy Spirit filled Believers as leaders. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is not just for folk who want to speak in tongues, that's foolish. The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a very serious spiritual work. Many make the mistake of saying the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is not that!

The correct terminology is Baptism IN the Holy Spirit. It is IN. After Salvation, God is always seeking folk to use in mighty ways. The Christian history books are full of mighty men and women who, after being Baptized in the Holy Spirit were used mightily by the Holy Spirit Who energized them for healing, casting out demons, raising the dead and so on.

To be Baptized in the Holy Spirit is to enter His realm of ministry until Jesus comes again. This is serious! You belong to the Holy Spirit. Jesus is your Master owner and the Holy Spirit and you will go about doing great deeds to honor and glorify Jesus the Son of God and His Father.

I am what you'd call a Bapticostal. Without human intervention, while I was in Florida caring for my dying Wife, the Holy Spirit came on me for four days. I would laugh, then cry, laugh and cry for four days. Needless to say, the old legalistic Baptist in me died and a new Holy Spirit powered man emerged. I didn't speak in tongues right away because I used to preach against it. About 4 months later as I was working in my shop, I was singing along with a Christian song on the radio and I suddenly started singing in tongues.

Since then, God has used me in mighty ways of which I'll not state now for fear of boasting and fueling pride of which I have to fight against. The problem with being used of God in mighty ways, people think you're someone special and Satan loves to build pride in that person. Pride, I hate it in myself and fight it every day.

This has been short and to the point. Should you have any questions, I'd be happy to try and give good answers according to the Scriptures.

 

[Curtis]

There is only "one" baptism" (Eph 4:5), and only one that brings salvation.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Which one are you going to put your faith, and trust in? Water baptism, or being baptized by one Spirit into one body? No amount of water can ever wash away "sins" or bring salvation as that can only be accomplished by the "blood" of Jesus Christ applied by the Holy Spirit of God.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin,s

 

[RJ]

First of all, when a person is drawn to Jesus the Son of God for Salvation, and he/she repents of their sins, asking for forgiveness, receiving Jesus as their Lord (Master Owner) and Savior, they must be baptized by immersion shortly after Salvation.

I do respect your background and training and fully understand your need for water immersion. I remember very well the day I was "born again" and latter keep substantiating that moment by reading the Bible and what it said about the effects I would realize by the event. But, your saying that I will always be a babe, never coming to maturity. I, obviously, can never satisfy your "maturity" condition because I have never been baptized by immersion, nor do I plan to, unless God puts it into my heart, which thus far he has not. There are many but, I will address or ask questions on a couple of points:

• I have read and can probably continue to Biblically learn bout Christian Maturity but, I have not thus found anything in scripture that maturity can ONLY be attained by water immersion. It would be helpful if you can provide some scriptures
  
• As best as I can find and, you are the scholar but, to the best of my knowledge, the book of Acts, is considered by many a historian to be more a historical document about the early church and, as an example not to be confused with the four gospels and the Epistles of Paul for example. In that light, and because hopefully, we can agree on this.....God commissioned Paul to further the gospel of the New Testament....then, would not Ephesians supersede Acts and, that being the case, how do you reconcile Ephesians 2: 8-9? God clearly states here that we are saved by grace and not works....why, since it is full of man's doings, why is water baptism not considered a work of man?

 

[Steven]

I do respect your background and training and fully understand your need for water immersion. I remember very well the day I was "born again" and latter keep substantiating that moment by reading the Bible and what it said about the effects I would realize by the event. But, your saying that I will always be a babe, never coming to maturity. I, obviously, can never satisfy your "maturity" condition because I have never been baptized by immersion, nor do I plan to, unless God puts it into my heart, which thus far he has not. There are many but, I will address or ask questions on a couple of points:

• I have read and can probably continue to Biblically learn bout Christian Maturity but, I have not thus found anything in scripture that maturity can ONLY be attained by water immersion. It would be helpful if you can provide some scriptures
  
• As best as I can find and, you are the scholar but, to the best of my knowledge, the book of Acts, is considered by many a historian to be more a historical document about the early church and, as an example not to be confused with the four gospels and the Epistles of Paul for example. In that light, and because hopefully, we can agree on this.....God commissioned Paul to further the gospel of the New Testament....then, would not Ephesians supersede Acts and, that being the case, how do you reconcile Ephesians 2: 8-9? God clearly states here that we are saved by grace and not works....why, since it is full of man's doings, why is water baptism not considered a work of man?

The book of acts was not just a book of history but was written by Luke and was inspired by the Holy Ghost. Luke of course wrote the Gospel according to Luke. And he traveled often with Paul.

 

[Steven]

The book of acts was not just a book of history but was written by Luke and was inspired by the Holy Ghost. Luke of course wrote the Gospel according to Luke. And he traveled often with Paul.

James 2:18,19 Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest there is one God; thou doesn't well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Faith is not what you believe but faith is an action. You can say that you believe what God's word says, but if you don't show that you believe by your works then is it faith? Now my point is that when we obey God's word and do as he tells us we are acting in faith.I believe water baptism is one of God's commands according to his word. Remember the Devils tremble and believe. But do they have faith? James 2:17 If so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[Steven]

James 2:18,19 Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest there is one God; thou does well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Faith is not what you believe but faith is an action. You can say that you believe what God's word says, but if you don't show that you believe by your works then is it faith? Now my point is that when we obey God's word and do as he tells us we are acting in faith.I believe water baptism is one of God's commands according to his word. Remember the Devils tremble and believe. But do they have faith? James 2:17 If so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[Steven]

Sorry a typo Thou believest there is one God: thou doest well:

 

[Chopper]

There is only "one" baptism" (Eph 4:5), and only one that brings salvation.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Which one are you going to put your faith, and trust in? Water baptism, or being baptized by one Spirit into one body? No amount of water can ever wash away "sins" or bring salvation as that can only be accomplished by the "blood" of Jesus Christ applied by the Holy Spirit of God.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin,s

Hello Curtis. Good questions. In studying the various posts, not only yours but others, I can't help but think that there are those who believe in Baptismal Regeneration. That is a false doctrine. Having said that, lets look at one Scripture....

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit....
This is the Baptism OF the Holy Spirit. At Salvation, the Holy Spirit places us into the Body of Believers in Jesus the Son of God. This act of the Holy Spirit is secondary to our confession of Jesus as their Master Owner. Baptism does not save us, our confession of the Christ of God saves us and at that moment the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the family of God.

 

[Chopper]

I do respect your background and training and fully understand your need for water immersion. I remember very well the day I was "born again" and latter keep substantiating that moment by reading the Bible and what it said about the effects I would realize by the event. But, your saying that I will always be a babe, never coming to maturity. I, obviously, can never satisfy your "maturity" condition because I have never been baptized by immersion, nor do I plan to, unless God puts it into my heart, which thus far he has not. There are many but, I will address or ask questions on a couple of points:

• I have read and can probably continue to Biblically learn bout Christian Maturity but, I have not thus found anything in scripture that maturity can ONLY be attained by water immersion. It would be helpful if you can provide some scriptures
  
• As best as I can find and, you are the scholar but, to the best of my knowledge, the book of Acts, is considered by many a historian to be more a historical document about the early church and, as an example not to be confused with the four gospels and the Epistles of Paul for example. In that light, and because hopefully, we can agree on this.....God commissioned Paul to further the gospel of the New Testament....then, would not Ephesians supersede Acts and, that being the case, how do you reconcile Ephesians 2: 8-9? God clearly states here that we are saved by grace and not works....why, since it is full of man's doings, why is water baptism not considered a work of man?

Hello RJ. I must tell you that I respect your position of not wanting to do something that you have not been convicted of God to do. That presents a problem in my mind. You are relying on your partly fleshly mind and partly spiritual. The fleshly part cannot receive the things of God, whereby the spiritual part can. We find this battle in the writings of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7. I'm sure you are familiar with that.

My speaking of maturity has been my observation of 40 years of being a Pastor/teacher. As has been said before, in the book of Acts we have the history of the early Church and the Command to be water Baptized. "Repent and be Baptized." Now you can, in the fleshly part of your mind discount the Book of Acts, but that will only discount the spiritual side of your mind to accept Acts as the written, authoritative Word of God.

I can tell you for sure, if you go and be Baptized by immersion as a good conscience toward God as a symbol of Christ's death burial and resurrection to new life, you will definitely see and feel the difference. The Holy Spirit will unlock spiritual mysteries that were hidden to your mind and will cause you to understand those mysteries that the Scriptures speak about.

Hey, do what you want. I'm just repeating what I know and have witnessed.

 

[RJ]

If so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

This, in no way, means your works or ANY works / efforts of man , unless you can boast. Recommending salvation is by water baptism being required for salvation is boasting in the works of man, which the act of water baptism can not deny the requirement of man's participation and is boasting. The "works" required or your faith is dead, is the works of the Holy Spirit / Jesus Christ in and through you...it is his works and none of you....he gets ALL of the glory!

 

[RJ]

We find this battle in the writings of the Apostle Paul in Romans 7. I'm sure you are familiar with that.

Sure I am. What I see is a Saint saying he struggles with doing what he considers right; as I see it, it's a basic struggle between the flesh and the spirit, which at that time Paul was not fully spirit yet...he was still man. He follows it up with Romans 8:1....but , of course, you say one can only be in the Christ if he has only participated in a ritual that requires man's participation and, I do not.

fleshly part of your mind discount the Book of Acts, but that will only discount the spiritual side of your mind to accept Acts as the written, authoritative Word of God.

• I think you avoid my point. I never said that Acts was not a work of God but you have and, thus far, avoided a basic truth that I posed to you: Though the entire Bible is the work of God, he has continually and consistently gave us new covenants to live under. I am sure, you wouldn't disagree, The New Covenant supersedes the Old Covenant.....the New Covenant supersedes the : Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic and Davidic covenants.
• What does the New Covenant mean:

We see that God promises to "make a new covenant," "not like" the old one, not like the covenant "they broke, though I was their husband." In this new covenant, "I will put my law within them, I will write on their hearts. And I will be their God and they shall be my people" (Jer 31:3
The new covenant comes through the death of Jesus Christ. It's in the Bible, Luke 22:20, NIV. "In the same way, after the supper He took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you."
The new covenant means we can go directly to God through Christ. It's in the Bible, Hebrews 7:22, NIV. "Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant."
There is forgiveness of sins only through the new covenant. It's in the Bible, Hebrews 9:14-15, NIV. "How much more, then, will the blood of Christ , who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant."

• In that vain and, though it truly compliments what has come before, wouldn't you say that God's word is exactly in the order that he intended...the New supersedes the Old. I know what you will say..."Acts is part of the new" but, I am sure you will agree that Revelations supersedes Acts and therefore Paul's teachings would supersede Luke's? Not that Luke's was / is not very important but, in that since, Paul, the author of Ephesians ,writes from the perspective of union with Christ, who is the head of the true church. So, AGAIN,here is a point that I posed..... how do you reconcile your belief with Ephesians 2:8-9? In that light and for salvation, God excludes"works" of man....why, since man's physical involvement is crucial to water baptism, much less, total immersion....why is this "act" of man so vital to his salvation.

The Holy Spirit will unlock spiritual mysteries that were hidden to your mind and will cause you to understand those mysteries that the Scriptures speak about.

Yes, the Holy Spirit, reveals all mysteries...like Colossians 1:26, the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord's people.
I am a Lord's People and without him in me, I would not even know or have a chance to understand this verse. I see it as one of my "first fruits" of God in me.....and he can get inside one like myself, in or out of the water!

 

[Curtis]

Hello Curtis. Good questions. In studying the various posts, not only yours but others, I can't help but think that there are those who believe in Baptismal Regeneration. That is a false doctrine. Having said that, lets look at one Scripture....

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit....
This is the Baptism OF the Holy Spirit. At Salvation, the Holy Spirit places us into the Body of Believers in Jesus the Son of God. This act of the Holy Spirit is secondary to our confession of Jesus as their Master Owner. Baptism does not save us, our confession of the Christ of God saves us and at that moment the Holy Spirit baptizes us into the family of God.

Brother Chopper, I also do not believe there is such a thing as Baptism regeneration, and those who trust in that will be in for a big surprise one day. I myself would never tell anyone not to be water baptized, in fact I highly recommend it. If a born again child of God is never water Baptized they will continually ask, and wonder whether or not that they should. Doing so releases them of never wondering about it again, as it frees their conscience from such questions.
I believe that once a person confesses Jesus Christ as their Lord, and savior they are Baptized by one Spirit into one body. This is the true baptism, while water Baptism is only symbolic to the former. Being filled with the Holy Spirit which is a separate event is for empowering one for service. Being born of the Spirit, and being filled with the Spirit are not the same thing, as Jesus referred to being born of the Spirit as a "spring", that springs up unto eternal life. while being filled with the Spirit as a "roaring river" flowing out of a person.

 

[Curtis]

James 2:18,19 Yea, a man may say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest there is one God; thou doesn't well: the devils also believe, and tremble. Faith is not what you believe but faith is an action. You can say that you believe what God's word says, but if you don't show that you believe by your works then is it faith? Now my point is that when we obey God's word and do as he tells us we are acting in faith.I believe water baptism is one of God's commands according to his word. Remember the Devils tremble and believe. But do they have faith? James 2:17 If so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

It is "possible" for a person to have "works" without faith, but it is "impossible" for a person to have "faith" without works.