Is God All Knowing?

[Brother Mike]

Choices.

aaroncam85, thank you. I can understand how one can look at it this way. I certainly had no option but to be here, sent to earth in a body, and put in a seemly random environment.

So, I guess we are at the stage to where who is going to reply against God for putting us here? Who can say he made a bad choice, and did not walk in love? God wanted us here, and there is nothing to be done about that.

In all that though, God did give us a choice. He said choose life, and choose to be blessed. He gave us the ability to have faith, and to make choices. So, at least he did equip us to live a blessed life, and make a choice for the one that created us.

As stated, he did not set up Adam to fail. Adam failed on his own. God even repented that he had created man, Man turned on the one that created him. That is not God's fault.

In all this God still made a way.

Why create us in the first place then?

I guess we would have to tell God he had no right to have Children created in his image so he could fellowship with them and bless them.
That was the plan all along. So God would have to make his whole creation with nobody to share with on his level, and just have his created servants the angels for company.

Linear time and past and future are an illusion that happens because we can't handle the truth.
They are only in our heads.

God is outside of time, Time is not important to God, man created time.

All that is still a little beyond my reach to full grasp right now. I still see many places where things have specific times to occur.
Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I certainly had no option but to be here, sent to earth in a body, and put in a seemly random environment.

Earlier I requested scripture on that concept because I have never been able to see that in scripture.I have got to the point where scripture is truth and let every man be a liar including myself.

Because if we had a choice or at least some say then that would make God good(by mans standards) and we would have choices.We would not be little automatons.
Do more research on the foundation and understand why I seek this answer.

I see 3 time zones Heaven ,heavenlies and matter or earth.
We exist in all three right now.There is no time in heaven.
There is event based time in the heavenlies.
Our five senses experience linear time because we are tied to matter which is governed by decay based time.
It is linear but curved.A recent "through the wormhole"program confirmed this to me when they made the statement all matter stretches into infinity.I felt slightly less insane because the math they used was the exact same formula I found in scripture that has been driving me to understand.Its like taking the blue pill or is it the red one.

We have our head in heaven and our body in the heavenlies(sea) and our feet in the earth.Ok I don't know that I just use it as a reference tool.Because of the gospel and our blessed feet being my interface with matter.It gets crazy like I am no longer 666,I was striving for 333 but that was not God's plan,there was already a 333.Now I strive to be God's math(my math missed the mark) and be 999 so fine like gold.

 

[aaroncam85]

the Bible and many Christians seem to suggest that God is all knowing, if He is, then why did he create humanity knowing we would fall?

can anybody give a an answer?

please remeber i am not arguing that there is no God, as I know there is, its either the bible that is wrong or mans interpretation, whichever it is requires us to re-evaluate the way we view and know God.

Please be open minded and please pray before responding.

I am genuinely seeking an answer. but am not satisfied with those people have offered

 

[aaroncam85]

ok, i guess noone has an answer or do people feel i do not have a valid point. if i am correct has anyone considered the implications that follow; if the bible has been mis interpreted we need to re- assess our approach to God. We may have got it wrong as the Pharisees and Saducees got it wrong.

 

[aaroncam85]

you said "God knows how this whole thing is going to end", surely that makes my question valid, if He knows how it will end; knowing some will go to hell, why create us?

 

[David777]

Hello aaroncam85.

1) By definition God knows all, past, present and future.

2) God creates all things in pure love for us.

3) It is not God's wish that any perish!

4) God will judge humanity there is no escape from this event.

5) Puny human intellects do not understand the process.

6) God knows absolutely what He is doing aaroncam85.

Obviously, God knows those who love Him and those who do not!

Just trust Jesus completely and experience the peace and joy which is available to everyone whom will call upon the Lord of Lords.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

1) By definition God knows all, past, present and future.

2) God creates all things in pure love for us.

3) It is not God's wish that any perish!

4) God will judge humanity there is no escape from this event.

5) Puny human intellects do not understand the process.

6) God knows absolutely what He is doing aaroncam85.

Obviously, God knows those who love Him and those who do not!

Just trust Jesus completely and experience the peace and joy which is available to everyone whom will call upon the Lord of Lords.

Amen David777

 

[aaroncam85]

1) By definition God knows all, past, present and future.

2) God creates all things in pure love for us.

3) It is not God's wish that any perish!

4) God will judge humanity there is no escape from this event.

5) Puny human intellects do not understand the process.

6) God knows absolutely what He is doing aaroncam85.

Obviously, God knows those who love Him and those who do not!

Just trust Jesus completely and experience the peace and joy which is available to everyone whom will call upon the Lord of Lords.

ok, i accept the arguement that man can not fully understand God, but according to Christians God shows us a glimpse of Himself through the Bible. as you have stated the Bible shows God as all knowing and loving, if God knew some would go to hell before He created them is that not unloving, towards does going to hell, is there not a chance the Bible could be wrong or that man could have interpreted it wrong?

Would you create children knowing they would go to hell, given the choice to create or not?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

but according to Christians

Ok,I think we found the glitch,your being instructed by people who are not nearly as smart as you are.
They think throwing your kid in fire is a good thing and the only problem is that it's over to quick.
Why would you even consider that to be truth.

It is not God's wish that any perish!

Research for your self,go back through and read these posts again,I think there are some issues you have not fully considered.
There is a system that benefits from upside down thinking.

By the way I had a challenge for any one to prove to me from scripture that we had no say or choice in coming here to this world.I'm still waiting.

ok, i guess noone has an answer or do people feel i do not have a valid point. if i am correct has anyone considered the implications that follow; if the bible has been mis interpreted we need to re- assess our approach to God. We may have got it wrong as the Pharisees and Saducees got it wrong.

You do have a valid point that I have been trying to answer for 20 years.

 

[B-A-C]

Personal Relationship with God/Jesus...??

I have kids, they are mostly grown and married now. They aren't all saved, but for the most part, I am proud of them, and even though they didn't always do things "the way I wanted" them to, I still love them.

I was married, my wife left me (she has since died of cancer) a few years back. I loved her, I didn't want her to leave. I suppose I'm bigger than her, I could have locked her away in a room and made her stay with me. (Before anyone calls the police, I'm just saying this to make a point) The point is, even if I made her stay with me, would she have loved me? Would she have wanted a personal relationship with me? Also looking at this from the other side... if I forced her to do something she didn't want to do, would I be showing her true love? Or, would I be showing her more love by letting her go? Sometimes we tend to view things through selfish human eyes and think God has to be like us, that he follows OUR rules (instead of us following his).
I think what gives God the most glory is when his children are content with him.

I don't think it would give God any Glory if he "forced" any of humanity to love him and be with him. He may know the future, he may know that some will be lost and turn away from him. Does that mean he isn't all knowing? No it doesn't.
Does it mean he isn't in control? Or does it simply mean he gives us a choice?

One of the reasons I didn't want my wife to leave was because I put a lot of my "self-worth, self-value" in what she thought about me. If she likes me, then I must be a good person, if she doesn't then I must be a bad person. I think many of us Christians put our self value in what other people think about us.

God is still God no matter what people think about him. What kind of God needs people to think "he is a good God" in order for him to be God?
There are religions that believe their God wants to force everyone "to like their God". I wonder if their God has an inferiority complex

.. my 2 cents...

 

[Chad]

Ok,I think we found the glitch,your being instructed by people who are not nearly as smart as you are.
They think throwing your kid in fire is a good thing and the only problem is that it's over to quick.

You just passed an assumption of these "people" you've never met and have no understanding, speaking from your own understanding instead. What right do you have to do such?

Why would you even consider that to be truth.

Is your statement above truth? Not at all. How can it be truth without proof?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

You just passed an assumption of these "people" you've never met and have no understanding, speaking from your own understanding instead. What right do you have to do such?

Whoever gave him the bright idea that God creates people to torture for eternity is not all that smart.He says they were Christians but I doubt seriously that they are.I did not judge them I said he was smarter than them.
God is love and love does not torture it's children.
That is of course just my opinion.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Why then is there scriptures where he does not know what each individual will choose, why does he have to search for hearts perfect toward him, would he not already know?

"'For my thoughts are not your thoughts neither are your ways my ways', declares the Lord. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.'" (Is 55:8-9)

One of the great mysteries of Christendom is this - God's knowledge does not interfere with man's free will. Man's intellect and powers are limited, God's are limitless. As Paul said, "Now I know in part; then (in heaven) I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (1 Cor 13:11)

SLE

 

[B-A-C]

Whoever gave him the bright idea that God creates people to torture for eternity is not all that smart.He says they were Christians but I doubt seriously that they are.I did not judge them I said he was smarter than them.
God is love and love does not torture it's children.
That is of course just my opinion.

Torture. Hmmmm.....

God is love, true, but it isn't all he is, he is Holy and just as well.
The fact is, some people will go to hell. A great number already have.
It's interesting you choose the word torture. A deliberate malicious act.
I think in God's case, there is punishment and discipline, this isn't torture.
We don't torture those we love.. true, but do we punish them?

Prov 22:15 Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.
Prov 23:13 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.
Prov 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.
Prov 3:12 For whom the LORD loves He reproves, Even as a father corrects the son in whom he delights.
Job 5:17 "Behold, how happy is the man whom God reproves, So do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.
Heb 12:9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness.
Rev 3:19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

Jas 1:2 Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials,
Jas 1:3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance.
Jas 1:4 And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

1 Cor 5:3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present.
1 Cor 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1 Cor 5:5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

For some reason I cannot fathom, many people think if they punish their children, they do not love them. Well I have 4 children (mostly grown and moved out, I have a grandson) and from my experience, if you take the time to punish them sometimes, maybe that means you love them more. Children who grow up with discipline usually tend to be the ones more successful in life, more respectful, and less resentful of things when they don't go their way.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I think in God's case, there is punishment and discipline, this isn't torture.
We don't torture those we love.. true, but do we punish them?

"Punish" is for corrective reasons.Are the people in hell being corrected ,will they be forgiven and trained to act properly,like a parent does for a child?How can you correct someone for eternity?
If your children disobey you will you reject them forever for their own good?I have four children myself so I really want to understand how this punishment thing works so I can be more like God.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
How many has God bound over to disobedience?
How many will he have mercy on?

 

[B-A-C]

"Punish" is for corrective reasons.Are the people in hell being corrected ,will they be forgiven and trained to act properly,like a parent does for a child?How can you correct someone for eternity?
If your children disobey you will you reject them forever for their own good?I have four children myself so I really want to understand how this punishment thing works so I can be more like God.

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
How many has God bound over to disobedience?
How many will he have mercy on?

The answer to this question depends on your view of predestination.
My perspective is that we do have free will. The ones going to hell for eternity are the ones who reject God/Christ.
I believe the 1 Tim 2:4 perspective. ( John 12:48, John 1:12, etc.. )
He wants us ALL to be saved, but some will reject him.

Others will say we don't have a choice, God already decided for us.
There are verses that support this point of view also. ( Rom 9:11, Rom 8:29-30, Eph 1:5, John 15:16, etc... )
Pre-destination is an un-winnable debate It has been going on through the ages by greater scholars than me. Calvin, Wesley, Tozer, Luther, McArthur, Piper, and it continues on talkjesus even today (I don't know how many dozens of threads address this very question) and after hundreds of messages about it, there still doesn't seem to be a unanimous consensus.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Others will say we don't have a choice, God already decided for us.
There are verses that support this point of view also. ( Rom 9:11, Rom 8:29-30, Eph 1:5, John 15:16, etc... )
Pre-destination is an un-winnable debate It has been going on through the ages by greater scholars than me. Calvin, Wesley, Tozer, Luther, McArthur, Piper, and it continues on talkjesus even today (I don't know how many dozens of threads address this very question) and after hundreds of messages about it, there still doesn't seem to be a unanimous consensus.

That is a well balanced response.
Tozer is the only one of those I have read or know anything about.
I consider Tozer an awesome philosopher and wordsmith who never was able to grasp what "it is finished" means.

Something BroMike said explains my position well:

I just do not want preconcieved ideas, and Doctrine to cover over scriptures.
I know that is not 100% possible for anyone, I do strive though.

My only doctrine is let God be true and let every man be a liar.That includes my puny brain and my five senses.

The answer to this question depends on your view of predestination.

I quite simply don't have any view whatsoever of what predestination is and I don't want to.I am busy enough remembering what scripture says.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Romans 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
What if we agreed to be bound over?
What if we chose who we would be like a video game RPG and we got to design our strengths and weaknesses.Would you have chosen the path that you find yourself on?
Do you like to turn up the heat on your games or do you play it safe?

Where in the Bible does it tell us we had no say in our lives?
I'm still waiting for that scripture.
Maybe we were eager to come down here and produce many sons for our betrothed.

Maybe we will be ashamed at his coming because he gave us signs and wonders and we complained through the whole thing.

 

[B-A-C]

Where in the Bible does it tell us we had no say in our lives?
I'm still waiting for that scripture.
.

I can't believe I'm posting this, because I'm a free will advocate Maybe just being devil's advocate today.

Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON."
Rom 9:10 And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
Rom 9:12 it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
Rom 9:13 Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Notice verse 11 above, says God had already decided their fate before either of them was born, before they ever committed a sin or did anything good or bad, but just because it was God's plan and purpose.

Verse 16 goes on to say, it doesn't depend on us or our will, but it all depends on God.

There are other similar verses, about Judas and Pharoah and the Beast all being predestined to be who they were before they were born.

Someone had to be Judas, someone will have to be the beast. The argument is, do they have any choice in the matter?

Exod 7:3, Exod 14:4, Exod 4:21 all say God hardened Pharoah's heart.
Did Pharoah have any say about this?

This is one of those subjects, the more I have studied it, the more confusing it becomes

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Someone had to be Judas, someone will have to be the beast. The argument is, do they have any choice in the matter?

It's was a dirty job but someone had to do it.Be Judas I mean,as for the beast it "is not"(that's another thread).
Matthew 26:50 And Jesus said unto him, Friend, why are you come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus, and took him.

Actually the last time he talked to Judas he called him "Friend".Jesus knew why he came,it was planned at the foundation of the world.In fact the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

I probably have a different concept of time,space and heaven and the heavenlies than most,but it is based on what I see in the scriptures.

There are many verses that defy our notion of time:
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

There are also things that exist even though they never existed at all:
Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

There are also things that happened to us that we don't remember:
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Jesus the Lamb of God died for our sins and was raised 2000 years ago.
But the Lamb of God (Jesus )was actually slain from the foundation of the world.
So we were actually raised and seated with Christ before the foundation of the world.

(Ecc 1:9) The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I think it is not out of the realm of possibility that we are more than we currently understand.