Is God One or is He Three?

[Rhema]

We can define it

Well then, please do so.

He created Time.

That doesn't seem to be found in any verse in Genesis that I know of.
Perhaps you can point out the scripture I may have missed. (Thanks)

We know the BBT is wrong.

BBT ?

Something can NOT come from Nothing.

Most of Creation is unknowable to the flawed, mortal human mind.

Maybe that first assertion comes from a flawed mortal human mind.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

The Bible refers to God's nature as a Triune being many times.

That's more a surmise than an inference.

To be honest, that's actually an unfounded didactic assertion to a request that you provide scripture to support your ... hm... "inference."

But if I recall correctly, the forum here frowns upon any discussion of the Trinity, so... as y'all were.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

you do not believe in a Hierarchy of the Godhead

Uh.... wouldn't the aspect of co-equality in the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity forego any possibility of "Hierarchy" ?? Therefore anyone who espouses the Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity must reject a "Hierarchy of the Godhead."

Of course I am open to the possibility that you don't embrace the Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity, since these days I am encountering more and more Christians who say they believe in the Trinity, yet their words describe Modalism.

But I don't wish to impute.

Do you worship God, and is God just the Father that you worship, and at no time do you worship God the Son Jesus/Yeshua?

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him αυτω only shalt thou serve.​

(Matthew 4:10 KJV)​

"him" (αυτω) is singular. I, for one, am not so bold as to suggest a position where Jesus got the words wrong.

And Nick, I'm sure you actually know that the term "God the Son" (YOUR WORDS) cannot be found in scripture. Should we beyond that which is written?

expressing anti-trinitarian doctrine which is contrary to the statement of faith of Talk Jesus. (Moderator) \o/

HA.. Thought so,
Rhema

("Don't get fooled again...")

 

[Rhema]

With all due respect, Rhema, have you read and studied the Scripture long enough to gather a complete concept of who Christ actually is?

Let's see... 51 years using the actual Greek text?

How about you?

Both John and Paul tell us He is the Creator of the universe and you question is He is God?

So your answer is that you cannot answer the simple question "Where?"

Well so much for clarity.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit = one God.

Man is spirit, soul, and body = one man.

Curtis, there are definitional problem in your post.

The Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity states that there are Three Persons in the "Godhead" of God.

Your definition of "man" includes only one person, and hence your comparison fails. The English word "Soul" is the Greek word Psuche, which by definition means "person" - the single conscious sentience that is the you within you. No one has ever suggested that the physical body of a man is a "person."

The Word of God is the only power that can distinguish man’s spirit from his soul, and his body.

Sorry Curtis, I know you do mean well, but if I cut off your hand, I'm not cutting off any part of your person.

The Word of God distinguishes the Father, from the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

And I will ask as I usually do. Which "Word of God"?

The New Testament texts speak of two (2) separate "words" of God. The Word of God (LOGOS) and the Word of God (RHEMA).

When speaking of the Word of God, it is important to be precise as to whether one is speaking of the Word(LOGOS) of God, or the Word(RHEMA) of God.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[joestue]

The New Testament texts speak of two (2) separate "words" of God. The Word of God (LOGOS) and the Word of God (RHEMA).

mostly a transation problem with the gospel of John.

the word of God as given through the prophets is the infallible words of prophecy, almost all of which came true. if you Red letter the OT you'll find it hardly makes up 15% of the text and maybe 2% contested.

same goes for the NT. Jesus speaks in the gospels for perhaps 10-20% of the text,

and paul arriving later speaks for Jesus only.. just a handful of verses. all of which are hotly contested. (i wonder why.. wait, what am i saying?)
the only prophecy Paul makes is that "by taking this cup, we proclaim the Death of Jesus until he comes again" --every thing else is specific to paul declaring his opinion, backed up by his detailed interpretations of the OT.. with no new information, not even the new information provided to John, in the book of revelation by Jesus. (i would argue the information in the 4 gospels was not new information to paul, he's already heard most of it.

-last i checked.. Jesus is alive. not dead. and i don't declare his death until he comes again. he is alive today.

anyhow, Rhema, i think i know where you're trying to go with "two "words" " of God.. but its just one word.

John is trying to help the greek reader understand their concept of the logos is in fact the God of the jews. its the law by which the whole universe exists.

 

[Curtis]

No one has ever suggested that the physical body of a man is a "person."

Have you ever heard of the desires of the "flesh"? (Eph 2"3) Or the will of the "flesh" (John 1:13) Ever hear of "crucifying" the "flesh? Have you ever heard of Walking After the Flesh? (Romans 8:4)

Does the human body have desires, and or a will just like the spirit of man?

 

[Curtis]

Curtis, there are definitional problem in your post.

The Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity states that there are Three Persons in the "Godhead" of God.

Your definition of "man" includes only one person, and hence your comparison fails. The English word "Soul" is the Greek word Psuche, which by definition means "person" - the single conscious sentience that is the you within you. No one has ever suggested that the physical body of a man is a "person."


Sorry Curtis, I know you do mean well, but if I cut off your hand, I'm not cutting off any part of your person.


And I will ask as I usually do. Which "Word of God"?

The New Testament texts speak of two (2) separate "words" of God. The Word of God (LOGOS) and the Word of God (RHEMA).

When speaking of the Word of God, it is important to be precise as to whether one is speaking of the Word(LOGOS) of God, or the Word(RHEMA) of God.

Kindly,
Rhema

Jesus is the "logos" Word (singular) of God. Jesus is not Rehema words of God. (plural). There is only one Jesus, not many Jesus's.
The Logos (singular) of God who is Jesus speaks the words of God (Rehema)(plural)

Jesus the logos of God reveals God the Father by speaking the words of God.

 

[Rhema]

mostly a transation problem with the gospel of John.

The translation problem is not just with the Gospel According to John. The Greek text of the New Testament employs two words - LOGOS and RHEMA, both of which are used throughout the New Testament texts, and BOTH of which are translated into English as "Word." This fuses together two separate concepts causing con-fusion to the uneducated.

With regards to John, I don't think that anybody can understand what the author was talking about if they haven't read Philo.

anyhow, Rhema, i think i know where you're trying to go with "two "words" " of God.. but its just one word.

I wonder..... (one can hope).

There is One God, but two Words. And neither definition, whether that of LOGOS or RHEMA means "the Bible" (i.e. GRAPHE).

Words matter. Definitions matter. To successfully change the meaning of a word is to destroy that meaning. And the Devil has destroyed much of the Gospel of Jesus.

Jesus speaks in the gospels for perhaps 10-20% of the text,

And Jesus being the LOGOS[word] of God, makes his sayings even more important then -

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:​

(Luke 6:46-47 KJV)​

The Bible is not the word of God, but the teachings of Jesus are - the LOGOS[word] of God.

But we shouldn't ignore the Rhema.


Rhema

(i wonder why.. wait, what am i saying?)

Please understand that you are quite safe in saying anything to me in a private message.

 

[Rhema]

Have you ever heard of the desires of the "flesh"? (Eph 2"3) Or the will of the "flesh" (John 1:13) Ever hear of "crucifying" the "flesh? Have you ever heard of Walking After the Flesh? (Romans 8:4)

Curtis,

Paul uses the term "flesh" to mean "the foreskin' in particular, and Judaism in general - a salvation that is based upon the ritual of circumcision. Even today, most all Protestants that I know still circumcise, unable to "crucify the flesh." (They never truly kill off the old religious superstitions.)

When the uneducated change the meaning of words, they destroy the truth of a teaching, and then pass their misapprehension to the next generation.

Rhema

Jesus the logos of God reveals God the Father by speaking the words of God.

When was the last time you literally heard Jesus ??

 

[Rhema]

Jesus is the "logos" Word (singular) of God. Jesus is not Rehema words of God. (plural).

Never said he was.

Would never say that Jesus was the RHEMA[word] of God.

So just what was the cause of your confusion there?

Ephesians 6:17 (IN THE GREEK) states that the Pneuma is the Rhema of God.
(And Rhema here is singular, btw.)

Blessings,
Rhema

The Logos (singular) of God who is Jesus speaks the words of God (Rehema)(plural)

Might I kindly suggest that you take a refresher course in Koine. Mass nouns can be problematic to some.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every RHEMA (also singular) that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.​

(Matthew 4:4 KJV)​

 

[Curtis]

Rhema

When was the last time you literally heard Jesus ??

Jhn 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Every day.

 

[MedicBravo]

That's more a surmise than an inference.

To be honest, that's actually an unfounded didactic assertion to a request that you provide scripture to support your ... hm... "inference."

But if I recall correctly, the forum here frowns upon any discussion of the Trinity, so... as y'all were.

Rhema

Who? Where?
People's inability to understand anything in the Bible b/c "It's not spelled out in the Bible." is a flawed and incorrect belief.

There are people who know far more than you, me, or anyone on this thread who can and the Bible IS backed by secular information.

 

[Charlie24]

Let's see... 51 years using the actual Greek text?

How about you?


So your answer is that you cannot answer the simple question "Where?"

Well so much for clarity.

Rhema

What do you mean, where? If you're referring to "where" John and Paul said that Christ created the universe, with your 51 years of Scripture you should know where that's written.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Uh.... wouldn't the aspect of co-equality in the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity forego any possibility of "Hierarchy" ?? Therefore anyone who espouses the Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity must reject a "Hierarchy of the Godhead."

Of course I am open to the possibility that you don't embrace the Orthodox Doctrine of the Trinity, since these days I am encountering more and more Christians who say they believe in the Trinity, yet their words describe Modalism.

But I don't wish to impute.

Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him αυτω only shalt thou serve.​

(Matthew 4:10 KJV)​

"him" (αυτω) is singular. I, for one, am not so bold as to suggest a position where Jesus got the words wrong.

And Nick, I'm sure you actually know that the term "God the Son" (YOUR WORDS) cannot be found in scripture. Should we beyond that which is written?


HA.. Thought so,
Rhema

("Don't get fooled again...")

Good! I'm not trying to fool anyone!

Matthew 4:10 actually makes my point about Jesus/God. He knew only God was to be worshipped, but clearly accepted the worship of others throughout His earthly ministry. It can be reasoned why He did so, but I find the simplest reason being, is that He was due it. Now why He was due it, others can argue about...

Also, there are many things not found in scripture that we can surmise through the prompting of the Holy Spirit to be true. Would it be better to say, God, The Word, The Spirit of God instead? All are everlasting and not created beings or do you believe some, none, are eternal, or had no preexistence like the begotten Son Jesus did? How about I use the verbiage that Peter used? "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." and since it was revealed to Peter by Jesus' Father in heaven, I guess it would be okay...

You would think that just saying God would be sufficient, but with the many gods that are spoken of in this world, I have always believed that being specific when talking to non-believers is better, because there is a dividing boundary to be made to what others believe and we as Christians believe as it pertains to the Godhead. Plus, the Gospel is all about Jesus' sacrifice/resurrection.

I'm sure you have noticed in your conversations, that if you use God most will be "why yes or I believe a bit differently" yet be agreeable to what you are saying. However, mention Jesus, and it all changes, doesn't it? The question is that creates as much trouble as discussing the Trinity is "Who are You Jesus?" Then what follows is issues even with fellow brethren as you see is happening here and don't bring Mormonism into it or Islam! (Heavy sigh)

Only humanity can split hairs like no other!!! lol I mean think what would have happened if Saul of Tarsus to Jesus', I follow only the One True God, and you're not him! For what was the issue for the persecution of those of The Way concerning Jesus? You are just some disembodied voice, or Jesus you are only a messenger of the One True God, so I guess it's okay if I listen and obey. I guess the Supernatural has a way of chasing a lot of nonsense discussions to the background, doesn't it?

I avoid these discussions for the most part because as a Moderator, I must believe, adhere and enforce the Statement of Faith of the site, which I do to the best of my ability, or I'd not be a Moderator. Plus, getting involved in these discussions, and then having to close/delete/ban content/members because of the site's position becomes that much more difficult. Like others here, I'm sure you'd not be surprised at what I've been called, or assigned to going after my death, by others because of these decisions, which I or others on staff have made that they were not happy with! We just keep moving forward as the Spirit guides us!

Oh, by the way I am not a believer in Modalism. But thank-you for your concern. lol

Well, more to do, and the time is short!
God bless.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Is God absolutely monotheistic, inseparably and numerically One or is He three separate distinct persons?

He is ONE. Father Son, and Holy SPirit.

Don't understand? Nobody does. I'll ask later.

 

[Rhema]

There are people who know far more than you, me, or anyone on this thread who can and the Bible IS backed by secular information.

You have no idea what I know or who I am.
You may wish to dial back on the bluster.

But when you repeat an assertion when asked for scriptural support, it shows everyone who you are.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

with your 51 years of Scripture you should know where that's written.

And once again you had the opportunity to provide scriptural support to enlighten us all, and yet chose to retreat into insulting rhetoric.

What a shame.
Rhema

Sometimes I ask on behalf of people who do not know.
Sometimes I ask to see what you know.
And now I know.

 

[Rhema]

clearly accepted the worship of others throughout His earthly ministry

And what scriptural support would you provide for that assertion?
(He kindly asks.)

there are many things not found in scripture that we can surmise

And those things lead to the Roman Catholic church, (and the Mormons, and the JWs, and the 7th day Adv. ... it just goes on and on...)

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.​

(1 Corinthians 4:6 NKJV)​

"Surmise" is just the $500 word for assume. Personally, I don't have a problem with either, right up until it is framed as Doctrine. Shall I surmise that you embrace the Catholic doctrine of Trinity and yet reject the Catholic doctrine of Transubstantiation? One might say that I reject everything, until the LOGOS and RHEMA confirm its truth.

Peter used? "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." and since it was revealed to Peter by Jesus' Father in heaven, I guess it would be okay...

Oh, I fully believe that Jesus is the Son of the living God.

I also believe that Adam is the Son of God. Don't you?

By inference, then, one might surmise that Adam is part of the Godhead if "Son of God" means God, no?

I have always believed that being specific when talking to non-believers is better, because there is a dividing boundary to be made to what others believe and we as Christians believe as it pertains to the Godhead.

Well then, you should have no problem being specific to use the phrase "Son of God" only instead of God-the-Son, which goes beyond what is written. (And I'm not sure you've addressed the issue of Hierarchy yet.)

The question is that creates as much trouble as discussing the Trinity is "Who are You Jesus?"

I know who Jesus is. And yet hundreds of thousands of preachers put words into Jesus' mouth every Sunday (or Saturday) and have done so for the last two thousand years. It's one false Christ after another, no? To be honest, I have no trouble discussing whom Jesus may be, nor do I have any trouble discussing the Trinity. It's the insecure people who ban others when they hear something they don't like, and I'd rather not be involved in that sort of drama.

Plus, the Gospel is all about Jesus' sacrifice/resurrection.

Are you sure? (I'm sure you would say that you're sure, but.... just what is the Gospel?)

Now after John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,​

(Mark 1:14 NKJV)​

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached. (And nothing else.)

One might say that the Gospel books are all about Jesus' sacrifice/resurrection, but even within them there is so much more. I am surprised that you would be so reductionist.

Only humanity can split hairs like no other!!!

Then you've not written computer code.

think what would have happened if Saul of Tarsus to Jesus', I follow only the One True God, and you're not him!

I could answer this, but it would just upset you.

I guess the Supernatural has a way of chasing a lot of nonsense discussions to the background, doesn't it?

So you too seek a sign? (Just askin') As if Supernatural signs and wonders prove Truth absolutely?

"Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'Look, He is there!' do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.​

(Mark 13:21-22 NKJV)​

I avoid these discussions for the most part because as a Moderator, I must believe, adhere and enforce the Statement of Faith of the site, which I do to the best of my ability, or I'd not be a Moderator.

I avoid them for other reasons....

And there's a reason why people avoid discussing religion and politics, mostly because reason flees, and the discussion turns into emotional polemics. (Followed by a fist-fight.)

God bless,
Rhema

 

[MedicBravo]

You have no idea what I know or who I am.
You may wish to dial back on the bluster.

But when you repeat an assertion when asked for scriptural support, it shows everyone who you are.

Rhema

"it shows everyone who you are." - Opinion.
Many things are true, God, and the Bible without being spelled out.
If someone doesn't understand, that's their problem.

The Trinitarian nature of God IS in the Bible.
People who believe "If x, y, or z isn't in the Bible word for word then it's not true." are ignorant (not knowing).