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Is Heavy Metal Evil?

Philip the evangelist and Stephen were chosen by the apostles to be workers in the church. No other people that were not Apostles or chosen by them are recorded doing miracles. So can we do miracles today as believers? Can you?

"Now in these days when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, “It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” And what they said pleased the whole gathering, and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolaus, a proselyte of Antioch. These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them." (Acts 6:1-6 ESV)
Do you remember "Ananias"? He laid hands upon Paul when he was blind, and the Lord healed him of his blindness. Ananias was just your average Joe in the Church, not an Apostle.
Who are we to call when there are sick people in the Church? Are the "elders" in the Church today the original Apostles?

Act 9:17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
James 5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.
 
Who gives us our faith? Is it something we conjure up or is it something God gives us.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV)

"Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:1-2 ESV)
Faith comes by hearing the Word of God. (Romans 10:17)
 
All sickness is the results of sin. If there was no sin in this world there would be no sickness!! Where did sin come from? Who was the first person to sin? It was not Adam, it was "Lucifer", and through his actions Adam allowed sin to come into this world. This is why Jesus called the religious leaders of his day, "you are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father you will do". Jesus did NOT say you are of your father Adam!!!

How can this be if Jesus took the punishment for our sins? Was his sacrifice not complete? Why is a Christian being punished for sins after they have been forgiven? Sickness is because the universe has not been redeemed by god yet but Christians have been redeemed already. Romans 3:24.
 
We can NOT do anything. This is what you are not getting. God is the only one who can heal anyone, and he (God) works through his body which is the Church. What moves God? Faith is what moves God not our wishful thinking or unbelief.

You say we cannot do anything but then say we must believe to be healed? Which is it?
 
Do you remember "Ananias"? He laid hands upon Paul when he was blind, and the Lord healed him of his blindness. Ananias was just your average Joe in the Church, not an Apostle.
Who are we to call when there are sick people in the Church? Are the "elders" in the Church today the original Apostles?

Act 9:17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Yes, Jesus sent him for a particular purpose and this does not say Ananias healed Paul. Did Ananias fill Paul with the Holy Spirit too?

James 5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
James 5:15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

From GTY Website: Should Believers Anoint the Sick with Oil?

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (5:14)

Here is the most misunderstood and disputed portion of this passage. At first glance it appears to be teaching that sick believers can expect physical healing through the prayers of the elders. But such an interpretation is out of harmony with the context. And as noted in the previous point, the suffering James has in view is evil treatment, not physical illness.


It is true that, apart from the present verse, astheneo is translated sick eighteen times in the New Testament (e.g., Matt. 10:8; 25:36, 39; Mark 6:56; Luke 4:40; John 4:46; Acts 9:37). But it is also used fourteen times to refer to emotional or spiritual weakness (Acts 20:35; Rom. 4:19; 8:3; 14:1–2; 1 Cor. 8:11–12; 2 Cor. 11:21, 29; 12:10; 13:3–4, 9). Significantly, in all but three (Phil. 2:26–27; 2 Tim. 4:20) of astheneo’s appearances in the epistles it does not refer to physical sickness. Paul’s use of astheneo in 2 Corinthians 12:10 is especially noteworthy, since it there describes weakness produced by the sufferings of life—in a similar context as its usage in the present verse.


Translating astheneo “weak” here in keeping with its predominant usage in the epistles allows us to view this verse in a different light. James moves beyond the suffering believers of the previous point to address specifically those who have become weak by that suffering. The weak are those who have been defeated in the spiritual battle, who have lost the ability to endure their suffering. They are the fallen spiritual warriors, the exhausted, weary, depressed, defeated Christians. They have tried to draw on God’s power through prayer, but have lost motivation, even falling into sinful attitudes. Having hit bottom, they are not able to pray effectively on their own. In that condition, the spiritually weak need the help of the spiritually strong (cf. 1 Thess. 5:14).


That help, James says, is to be found in the elders of the church. They are the spiritually strong, the spiritually mature, the spiritually victorious. Weak, defeated believers are to go to them and draw on their strength. They are to call (from proskaleo, “to call alongside”) the elders to come and lift them up. It is the same thought that the apostle Paul expressed in Galatians 6:1: “Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness.” The wounded, exhausted, broken sheep are to go to their shepherds, who will intercede for them and ask God for renewed spiritual strength on their behalf.


This is an important—and largely neglected—ministry of the church’s pastors and elders. The apostles acknowledged its priority when they said, “We will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word” (Acts 6:4). But in today’s church, weak, struggling believers are often handed over to so-called expert professional counselors—who often have little power in prayer. Those who have been defeated in the spiritual battle do not need to hear opinions of human wisdom; they need to be strengthened by the power of God through their leaders’ prayers.


The anointing with oil in the name of the Lord done by the elders is not a reference to some symbolic ceremony. Aleipho (the root form of the verb translated anointing) is not used in the New Testament to refer to a ceremonial anointing. Noted Greek scholar A. T. Robertson comments, “It is by no means certain that aleipho here … means ‘anoint’ in a ceremonial fashion rather than ‘rub’ as it commonly does in medical treatises” (Word Pictures in the New Testament [reprint, 1933; Grand Rapids: Baker, n.d.], 6:65). Richard C. Trench agrees: “[aleipho] is the mundane and profane, [chrio] the sacred and religious, word” (Synonyms of the New Testament [Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1983], 136–37). Aleipho in the New Testament describes anointing one’s head with oil (Matt. 6:17; cf. Luke 7:46), the women’s anointing of Jesus’ body (Mark 16:1), Mary’s anointing of the Lord’s feet (John 11:2; 12:3), and anointing the sick with oil (Mark 6:13). Perhaps the best way to translate the phrase would be “rubbing him with oil in the name of the Lord”; it literally reads “after having oiled him.”


It may well have been that the elders literally rubbed oil on believers who had suffered physical injuries to their bodies from the persecution (cf. Luke 10:34). Medical science was certainly in a primitive state and there were few trustworthy doctors. It would have been a gracious, kind act on the part of the elders to rub oil on the wounds of those who had been beaten, or into the sore muscles of those made to work long hours under harsh treatment.


Metaphorically, the elders’ anointing of weak, defeated believers with oil conveys the responsibility for elders to stimulate, encourage, strengthen, and refresh (cf. Luke 7:46) these people. Speaking of Israel, Isaiah wrote, “From the sole of the foot even to the head there is nothing sound in it, only bruises, welts and raw wounds, not pressed out or bandaged, nor softened with oil” (Isa. 1:6). Lacking godly leaders, the people of the nation had not had their spiritual wounds treated. David expressed God’s gracious, compassionate, spiritual restoration of him in these familiar words: “You have anointed my head with oil” (Ps. 23:5).
The elders’ ministry of intercession and restoration is to be done in the name of the Lord. Any truly biblical encouragement must be consistent with who God is (which is what His name represents). To do something in the name of Christ is to do what He would have done in the situation; to pray in the name of Christ is to ask what He would want; to minister in the name of Christ is to serve others on His behalf (cf. John 14:13–14).
 
Yes, Jesus sent him for a particular purpose and this does not say Ananias healed Paul. Did Ananias fill Paul with the Holy Spirit too?

From GTY Website: Should Believers Anoint the Sick with Oil?

Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; (5:14)
Brother, I don't trust my Christianity to any website, or what some "commentary says. The Bible says what it says, and this is how it is. You are STILL not getting it. Nobody can heal anyone except for God!!!!! No body can fill another person with the Holy Spirit, except for God!!!! Your error in this thinking is because you think people heal people, and they do not. They are only the instrument in which God chooses to do these things. If you knew and understood how Jesus operated in his earthly ministry you would never ask or doubt these things.
 
You say we cannot do anything but then say we must believe to be healed? Which is it?
I did not say we can't do anything, I said I can of my own self do nothing!!!!!! There is a huge difference between doing something your self, as opposed to God working through his Church, which is his body.
 
This passage is a fulfillment of prophesy to point to Jesus as the messiah. If it were true that Jesus died for our sins and sicknesses then no Christian should ever get sick or else Jesus did a crummy job of healing our sicknesses on the cross. We all know that all Christians get sick.

I am not disagreeing that Jesus healed people or that he cannot heal people today. My argument is that we are not guaranteed to not get sick and we cannot heal others if we are believers today.
Vincent If the bible says "By Jesus stripes you were healed' then guess what? You ARE the healed...and Satan is trying to make you sick...If the devil puts lying symptoms on you then you have the choice to believe them or not; to receive them or not. If you get sick its not because you lack faith...Its because you believed the wrong person.
 
Brother, I don't trust my Christianity to any website, or what some "commentary says. The Bible says what it says, and this is how it is. You are STILL not getting it. Nobody can heal anyone except for God!!!!! No body can fill another person with the Holy Spirit, except for God!!!! Your error in this thinking is because you think people heal people, and they do not. They are only the instrument in which God chooses to do these things. If you knew and understood how Jesus operated in his earthly ministry you would never ask or doubt these things.

If you think that you get the correct interpretation of scripture alone without trusting any teachers, preachers, theologians your doctrine will go off the rails. Iron sharpens iron. Reading a translation is trusting others with your Christianity. Dismissing an argument because of its source is a logical fallacy as well.

I don't think you are understanding me. Please read what I have written. I am 100% in agreement that only God can do miracles and heal people, we cannot. I also believe God does not need us to believe anything for Him to do a miracle of healing. My understanding of your doctrine is that God needs us to believe before He will heal someone. That is my disagreement.
 
I did not say we can't do anything, I said I can of my own self do nothing!!!!!! There is a huge difference between doing something your self, as opposed to God working through his Church, which is his body.

Can God heal someone without a person believing he can?
 
Vincent If the bible says "By Jesus stripes you were healed' then guess what? You ARE the healed...and Satan is trying to make you sick...If the devil puts lying symptoms on you then you have the choice to believe them or not; to receive them or not. If you get sick its not because you lack faith...Its because you believed the wrong person.

Are you saying that if I have sick symptoms that I have a choice to get sick or not depending on what I believe? That makes me angry because this doctrine causes people with terminal cancer for example to think that it is their fault they are sick. That they could be cured if only they believed something rightly or had more faith. I believe in a god that can heal or not heal depending on his good purposes. God is on control not us.
 
Can God heal someone without a person believing he can?
Mat 13:57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household."
Mat 13:58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

Whose unbelief stopped Jesus from performing miracles in this town? Jesus's?
 
Are you saying that if I have sick symptoms that I have a choice to get sick or not depending on what I believe? That makes me angry because this doctrine causes people with terminal cancer for example to think that it is their fault they are sick. That they could be cured if only they believed something rightly or had more faith. I believe in a god that can heal or not heal depending on his good purposes. God is on control not us.

One...I did not say it is a lack of faith...I said everyone has been given the same amount of faith...I did say that if you will believe Gods word, reach out an take the offered healing you will be healed...It IS a choice..You get to choose who you will believe...Satan who wants you sick or God who healed you...
No..God is not in control in the Earth...We are You are If you are a 'BELIEVER' A believer takes God's Word as true and speaks in agreement with it and also he acts on it. Speaking Gods Word and acting on it is by faith. of which you have more than enough. Get angry if you will but that will not change the truth...And I like you too much to lie to you. My God said "My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge" If you don't know the Word or don't know how to act on it, you are open to destruction.
 
Mat 13:57 And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household."
Mat 13:58 And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

Whose unbelief stopped Jesus from performing miracles in this town? Jesus's?

Notice it does not say he did no miracles. It says he did not do many miracles. In Mark 6:5 it says he did heal some people miraculously. If their unbelief stops Jesus from doing miracles then why did he do some? It seems more likely he chose not to do many miracles rather than he couldn't.

This is my whole contention, God chooses to do healings or not and does not need us to cooperate to be healed. How much belief does someone need to be healed?

So I will ask my question again, Can God heal someone without a person believing He can? I am assuming you would answer no.
 
One...I did not say it is a lack of faith...I said everyone has been given the same amount of faith...I did say that if you will believe Gods word, reach out an take the offered healing you will be healed...It IS a choice..You get to choose who you will believe...Satan who wants you sick or God who healed you...

So if someone is not healed it is their fault. They are believing the wrong thing. Would you tell this to a terminal cancer patient?


No..God is not in control in the Earth...We are You are If you are a 'BELIEVER' A believer takes God's Word as true and speaks in agreement with it and also he acts on it. Speaking Gods Word and acting on it is by faith. of which you have more than enough.

And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:27-30 KJV

If god is not in control on earth now then how can He work things for good for believers? How can he save people as he predestined to do?

"And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?" (2 Chronicles 20:6 KJV)

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." (Romans 13:1 KJV)

These verses indicate that god is on control on earth.

Get angry if you will but that will not change the truth...And I like you too much to lie to you. My God said "My people are destroyed by lack of knowledge" If you don't know the Word or don't know how to act on it, you are open to destruction.
Hosea 4:6 is talking about their lack of knowledge of gods law. It says God will reject them from becoming priests. Not their lack of knowledge of healing. This is the entire verse:

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." (Hosea 4:6 KJV)
 
Are you saying that if I have sick symptoms that I have a choice to get sick or not depending on what I believe? That makes me angry because this doctrine causes people with terminal cancer for example to think that it is their fault they are sick. That they could be cured if only they believed something rightly or had more faith. I believe in a god that can heal or not heal depending on his good purposes. God is on control not us.
Notice it does not say he did no miracles. It says he did not do many miracles. In Mark 6:5 it says he did heal some people miraculously. If their unbelief stops Jesus from doing miracles then why did he do some? It seems more likely he chose not to do many miracles rather than he couldn't.

This is my whole contention, God chooses to do healings or not and does not need us to cooperate to be healed. How much belief does someone need to be healed?

So I will ask my question again, Can God heal someone without a person believing He can? I am assuming you would answer no.

These verses indicate that there were some believers,hence, some miracles....God will not put healing on a person who does not believe for it...That's all there is to it...He will NOT override your will.
 
So if someone is not healed it is their fault. They are believing the wrong thing. Would you tell this to a terminal cancer patient?




And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. Romans 8:27-30 KJV

If god is not in control on earth now then how can He work things for good for believers? How can he save people as he predestined to do?

"And said, O LORD God of our fathers, art not thou God in heaven? and rulest not thou over all the kingdoms of the heathen? and in thine hand is there not power and might, so that none is able to withstand thee?" (2 Chronicles 20:6 KJV)

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." (Romans 13:1 KJV)

These verses indicate that god is on control on earth.

Hosea 4:6 is talking about their lack of knowledge of gods law. It says God will reject them from becoming priests. Not their lack of knowledge of healing. This is the entire verse:

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." (Hosea 4:6 KJV)

Is it our fault if we are not healed? God does not place blame for things like that, but I'm not God...I would say that if God says "This is the way I work" and we decide to go another way....we won't get what we want. So Yes! If we don't get healed it is our fault....
Would I say this to a cancer patient...Do I sound cruel to you? No I would not....
James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: That's what I would do...Call the elders and let their faith get the person healed. Do it God's way and things will happen. Do it your way and revel in your frustration....

You ask "
If god is not in control on earth now then how can He work things for good for believers? How can he save people as he predestined to do?"
This is not a scriptural question...1 God is not predestined to do anything, He is God...2 The word predestinated here is not used according to the modern definition....Look "For whom he did foreknow, he also did plan beforehand to be changed into the image of his Son" God planned for us to look like our Jesus...When people look at us they SHOULD see Jesus....
3 As to God being in control....God does own the store...He put us in as managers, if you will...here...in your own version...Ps 115:16 ESV The heavens are the Lords heavens, but the Earth He has given to the children of man. 4 Gods plan included giving control of this world to man, so He would have no problem working things out to our good....We can only run things of Earth properly if we are trusting Him
5...Yes If God is sovereign then He is still the power..but we are in control...
Genesis 1:26 [Full Chapter]
Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth.” The word 'dominion' means reign We Christians are to reign in the Earth....By Gods plan and decree.
6...Let each person be subject to the authorities that rule....governments etc...where is that a problem? The verse says that God set those authorities in place....It keeps order instead of anarchy and chaos...Seems like a good thing to me

7..."My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." (Hosea 4:6 KJV)
The word law here translates as 'Word'. So lets paraphrase the verse....My people are destroyed for lack of knowing and living my Word: because you have despised and cast off my teaching, I will despise and cast you off..so that you will not be my priests, seeing how you have forgotten my WORD of your God, I will also forget your children....

Another thing you missed here in this verse you used Hosea 4:6 There is the matter of broken covenant...The people broke covenant and there are consequences, and God named the consequences above.

My friend ...It seems to me that you are much like the people God was dealing with in this verse....Are you calling the shots here? Are you trying to tell God how He should work? We are His people, His children...We listen to Him, learn from Him, obey Him, grow to be like our Jesus etc. not the other way around...
 
These verses indicate that there were some believers,hence, some miracles....God will not put healing on a person who does not believe for it...That's all there is to it...He will NOT override your will.

Why won't he override our will? Where is that in the bible? I find many places he does just that. His dealings with Pharaoh in Exodus, all prophecy overrides mans free will, we are not free to be sinless (Jer 17:9, 1 Jn 1:8 etc.),

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."(Romans 8:6-7 KJV)

We do not have free will to please God. Eph 2:1 says we are dead in our trespass and sins. A dead man cannot choose life. We needed a new nature (2 Cor 5:17)Grace, our faith and our salvation is a free gift that we did not choose to receive. He decided to give that to us before the creation of the world (Eph 1:4-7). There are many many more scriptures that explain this further.

Specifically to healing, he rose Lazarus from death against his will. The ultimate healing.
 
Is it our fault if we are not healed? God does not place blame for things like that, but I'm not God...I would say that if God says "This is the way I work" and we decide to go another way....we won't get what we want. So Yes! If we don't get healed it is our fault....
Would I say this to a cancer patient...Do I sound cruel to you? No I would not....

It would be cruel not to tell someone how to be cured from terminal cancer if what you say is actually true as you believe. My point is that it is a cruel doctrine because it is not true.

James 5:14
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: That's what I would do...Call the elders and let their faith get the person healed. Do it God's way and things will happen. Do it your way and revel in your frustration....
I have done this many times with my wife's chronic illness. Still not healed.

"
If god is not in control on earth now then how can He work things for good for believers? How can he save people as he predestined to do?"
This is not a scriptural question...1 God is not predestined to do anything, He is God...
I never said he has to do anything. He chose to predestine people to be saved. This is my point God is in control of everything including healing. If he wants to heal you he will no matter if you want it or not.

Genesis 1:26 [Full Chapter]
Then God said, “Let us make humankind in our image, in the likeness of ourselves; and let them rule over the fish in the sea, the birds in the air, the animals, and over all the earth, and over every crawling creature that crawls on the earth.” The word 'dominion' means reign We Christians are to reign in the Earth....By Gods plan and decree.
Can you make a fish do anything?

each person be subject to the authorities that rule....governments etc...where is that a problem? The verse says that God set those authorities in place....It keeps order instead of anarchy and chaos...Seems like a good thing to me
Look between the ...'s It says God decides the rulers not us "managers". Here is the entire verse "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God."

My friend ...It seems to me that you are much like the people God was dealing with in this verse....Are you calling the shots here? Are you trying to tell God how He should work? We are His people, His children...We listen to Him, learn from Him, obey Him, grow to be like our Jesus etc. not the other way around...
How do you even think I am saying anything like this. I have always contended that God is in control an does what he wants regardless of our will. You are the one saying he NEEDS us to do things on earth. You are the one calling the shots or want to.
 
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