We are saved totally by Jesus not by any works; if this was the case then Jesus was not good enough to die for our sins if we had to "help" him out by works. Eph 2:8-9 look at the audience that is being spoken to; it's not believers. There were many there that opposed of his preaching. NONE of us can do anything by works to "help" us to heaven ONLY the blood of Jesus.
Is homosexuality really a sin..
- Thread starter Paul Melvyn Pathaw
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hopefulson
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So well said but I believe the direction of the discussion is ( what do we say to a homosexual ) ? I personally believe it depends on the individual that we are speaking to hopefully and prayerfully guided by The Spirit. I remember so well my life without Jesus Christ. It was a horror to live. Every breath every moment was cursed. BUT GOD HIMSELF intervened and saved me it is what I call annihilating Grace. Grace without reason, without merit, without any point at all to stand on and I was crushed completely by the love afforded me. Me a truly lost sinner. I can say nothing except GOD HIMSELF SAVED ME adding any additional condition is discounting the value demonstrated in The Cross which when properly contemplated is the very death of God in our place. Our inheritance eternal will reflect THAT value. I pray for more humility and a deeper ever deeper understanding of His Spirit as it leads me to adoration and worship ever higher.
Dave M
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that is no different IMO then a man who is not married being attracted to another women. Does he fantasize about it, or does he run to Jesus and get his thoughts off it??
If we fantasize about it we are guilty of sin IMO,
if we run to Jesus and get our thoughts off it ASP then how can we be guilty of it?
One shows a repenting heart and one shows no repentance.
Dave M
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We must understand, though that the blood of Jesus Christ covers ALL sin no matter what. We must NOT encourage an un-saved person not to accept Jesus because of their sexual orientation. Jesus died for sinners. When he died upon that cross ALL our sins were forgiven past, present, and future. We would not want a homosexual or anyone for that matter to feel like they are so horrible or sinful that even Jesus can't save them. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life that means a homosexual, a murderer, whosoever. No one is beyond Jesus' salvation if they are willing to approach Him and accept His gift of grace and love and salvation. So many out there nowadays trying to put the scriptures out of the context of it's original meaning and make sin acceptable, because they themselves don't want to change, rationalize the scriptures, etc. when in fact the Bible says the Lord's thoughts are higher than ours and we could not possibly understand His reasonings and choices. Anyway blessings ya all
this is a false gospel and not biblical at all.!!!
scripture is clear on who will not inherit the Kingdom of God if they do not repent.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Jesus saves us from being enslaved to sin, if we turn to Jesus and live for Jesus we will not want to sin, he changes our heart, this is a being born again. If your heart has not been changed and you still like sin, I would be seriously concerned.
Make no mistake about it, life is all about sin, you are either in sin or you in Christ there are no middle ground
We must understand, though that the blood of Jesus Christ covers ALL sin no matter what. We must NOT encourage an un-saved person not to accept Jesus because of their sexual orientation. Jesus died for sinners. When he died upon that cross ALL our sins were forgiven past, present, and future. We would not want a homosexual or anyone for that matter to feel like they are so horrible or sinful that even Jesus can't save them. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that WHOSOEVER believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life that means a homosexual, a murderer, whosoever. No one is beyond Jesus' salvation if they are willing to approach Him and accept His gift of grace and love and salvation. So many out there nowadays trying to put the scriptures out of the context of it's original meaning and make sin acceptable, because they themselves don't want to change, rationalize the scriptures, etc. when in fact the Bible says the Lord's thoughts are higher than ours and we could not possibly understand His reasonings and choices. Anyway blessings ya all
If they admit they have sinned and repent and ask God's forgiveness then yes they can be saved.
B-A-C
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The cross doesn't cover "everything". It is possible to fall short of grace.
Heb 12:15; See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Also there are two unforgivable sins.
Matt 12:31; "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Matt 12:32; "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Luke 12:10; "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.
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Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Heb 12:15; See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;
Also there are two unforgivable sins.
Matt 12:31; "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.
Matt 12:32; "Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Luke 12:10; "And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him.
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Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Headcasey669
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Noooooo ... dude god loves everyone... I love all men and women and all homosexual people.... I just don't love what they do because it is wrong.. Why would i love something that is wrong? Never hate the person for what they do... just hate the thing that they do... Its not only an affront to god but also to nature. They need to pray to the lord and ask for the holy spirit to be poured upon them... And then it will.. And they will be cured.
Though jesus Christ our lord amen.
Headcasey669
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Homosexuality was invented by Satan the devil. This is what your all forgetting! ... he put evil thoughts in some of our brains .. not all of us thank god... But just some of us... Satan has corrupted my brain too... I have weird thoughts.. I pray to God to take them away too... what we all need to remember is we wernt supposed to be like this in the first place ... Satan fked us all up.... But the lord is gonna sort HIM out and make no mistake about that!!,,!
Being Attracked to people isn't the problem -- it's how we respond , personally , To that attraction that makes the difference. Acting On that attraction consistantly Is a problem. When 'we' make a life-style of things that we know are wrong -- That is the problem.
And homosexuality is hurting our own body and that of the other person. As well as the emotional / psychological problems associated with that.
It is satan's counterfeit of God's creation of marriage.
Society has become so accepting of most Everything that is wrong. It's sometimes easy to forget exactly How wrong sin Is. And homosexual activity is so accepted -- the standard argument is that there's so much hate in the world, that when two people actually Love each other -- it Must be okay. There are different kinds OF love and different ways to Show those various kinds Of love. And Most of it does Not include physical intimacy. Physical sexual intimacy is Only to be show by a man and his wife within the bounds of marriage. And single people are to remain celebate until marriage. We are Not animals -- we Can make choices. Love can be shown More by Not approaching another person physically when we are single or already married.
Why do something , on purpose, that we know God hates. And no one 'accidentally' has sex with another person.
And homosexuality is hurting our own body and that of the other person. As well as the emotional / psychological problems associated with that.
It is satan's counterfeit of God's creation of marriage.
Society has become so accepting of most Everything that is wrong. It's sometimes easy to forget exactly How wrong sin Is. And homosexual activity is so accepted -- the standard argument is that there's so much hate in the world, that when two people actually Love each other -- it Must be okay. There are different kinds OF love and different ways to Show those various kinds Of love. And Most of it does Not include physical intimacy. Physical sexual intimacy is Only to be show by a man and his wife within the bounds of marriage. And single people are to remain celebate until marriage. We are Not animals -- we Can make choices. Love can be shown More by Not approaching another person physically when we are single or already married.
Why do something , on purpose, that we know God hates. And no one 'accidentally' has sex with another person.
hopefulson
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My feeling about your approach is that you are putting the cart before the horse and are attempting to drive it through heavens gate. The Spirit of God is not subject to anyone's demands commands or any manding of any action of will. Yet if you sincerely ASK, humble yourself and pray in effect put first things first God will literally stop the clock and clean the slate for your sake. I am speaking from experience as well as Scripture. How many times should you forgive another. God is always approaching always calling, righteousness does not come first it comes after. ( Why do you call Me good there is none good but God alone ) The words of Jesus Christ. The gates are opened by His presence and His blood conditions He Himself testified to many times. Leave the performance to the empowering by The Spirit through humility and not by the stomping of your feet and saying no. That is a prison not a power Grace and freedom are not found there only weak attempts at restriction but The Spirit is Power. It is The Glory you are meant for and the joy of Love's shield.
Doesn't God work differently with different people? He definitely Does work in each of our lives.
the subject of homosexuality -- maybe some of this depends on How a person got involved with it in the 1st place. Their own, individual attitudes Toward it / their own involvement.
I'm NOT saying that That kind of activity is ever Okay. Because it's Not. When a person decides that they Will be involved in that as a lifestyle Period. Then that's one thing. Obviously That person doesn't care what God's Word says.
Then there are those who truly struggle with it. Something happened to them as kids and they really do struggle. Biblical counseling is very helpful.
It IS important to Listen to a person -- where they are coming From. Are they Open to God's Word. Being a Bible-thumper probably won't get very far. But being good Listener Will -- being a caring person Will. And in the process Of listening, it will be apparently if that person Is really listening and open to change.
Every person's Main need / central need is their personal salvation.
Many years ago -- when I first got into q/a forums -- it was with YaHoo Answers. There were all the various catagories and I chose to try to answer questians regarding teens and their sexuality. I was surprised at many kids in junior high school were more concerned about whether their classmates were bi-sexual or not. Some thought it was Neat and some were really distressed by it. Going through puberty can be Very confusing to young people. Their hormones changing can make a Big difference in their lives. I tried to guide them to learning how to be Friends with both sexes. Not to allow anything more Than friendship. It was surprising that any of those kids had time/ inclination to Study. And That's what I encouraged them to Do. To dig into Studying. Get involved with an outdoor sport / running, tennis, something active and used their minds. Trying to refocus their personal 'focus'. And That is also what God's Word will do. It will refocus us.
And 'we' need to refocus on the Fact that sexual activity is meant to be Special -- saved for man/woman marriage. The concept of Boundaries seems so old-fashioned -- but boundaries are so very important.
the subject of homosexuality -- maybe some of this depends on How a person got involved with it in the 1st place. Their own, individual attitudes Toward it / their own involvement.
I'm NOT saying that That kind of activity is ever Okay. Because it's Not. When a person decides that they Will be involved in that as a lifestyle Period. Then that's one thing. Obviously That person doesn't care what God's Word says.
Then there are those who truly struggle with it. Something happened to them as kids and they really do struggle. Biblical counseling is very helpful.
It IS important to Listen to a person -- where they are coming From. Are they Open to God's Word. Being a Bible-thumper probably won't get very far. But being good Listener Will -- being a caring person Will. And in the process Of listening, it will be apparently if that person Is really listening and open to change.
Every person's Main need / central need is their personal salvation.
Many years ago -- when I first got into q/a forums -- it was with YaHoo Answers. There were all the various catagories and I chose to try to answer questians regarding teens and their sexuality. I was surprised at many kids in junior high school were more concerned about whether their classmates were bi-sexual or not. Some thought it was Neat and some were really distressed by it. Going through puberty can be Very confusing to young people. Their hormones changing can make a Big difference in their lives. I tried to guide them to learning how to be Friends with both sexes. Not to allow anything more Than friendship. It was surprising that any of those kids had time/ inclination to Study. And That's what I encouraged them to Do. To dig into Studying. Get involved with an outdoor sport / running, tennis, something active and used their minds. Trying to refocus their personal 'focus'. And That is also what God's Word will do. It will refocus us.
And 'we' need to refocus on the Fact that sexual activity is meant to be Special -- saved for man/woman marriage. The concept of Boundaries seems so old-fashioned -- but boundaries are so very important.
Dave M
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that sounds nice and all
but according to scripture at least sometimes its just to late and God hardens peoples hearts,
Exodus 4:21
And the Lord said to Moses, “When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go
John 12:40
“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”
what does it mean to speak against the holy spirit?. is it possible i could have done it unintentionally or unknowingly?
Dave M
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hopefulson
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hopefulson
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I really like the respect conveyed in this perception of individuality in God's approach to us. I can personally attest to it's truth, beauty and warmth as well as it's accuracy.
hopefulson
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Unfortunately this is all to true it is where we hold these truths and how we hold them that counts for us. The sin referenced can ruin our relationship with The Spirit but be aware that holding the law before The Spirit will produce the same result. Any result with The Spirit displaced is a horror to be avoided.
The Exodus passage -- but he eventually Does let the people leave. He also changes his mind and sends the army after them. God provides for the escape of His children through the parting of the Red Sea and then allows for the drowning of the soldiers.
As long as a person is alive -- there is hope. It's how we live our lives Here/ Now that makes the difference.
hopefulson
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Further considering does your position accommodate a foundation of Hope or does it expel it Dave ? The question is where are you standing and what are you discounting? It sort of seems to be a point that never arrives in the discussion but never disappears as a question either. As for me I need God's mercy to live and can never turn away from that foundation. What do you think Dave?
