Is homosexuality really a sin..

[Dave M]

The question is where are you standing and what are you discounting

I stand on the word of God I think this sums it up

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

 

[hopefulson]

I stand on the word of God I think this sums it up

Proverbs 28:13
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

That's somewhat excellent but not good enough, what do you Love?

 

[Sue D.]

I'm not Dave M - - but -- how is his response 'not good enough' -- just curious .

 

[Dave M]

That's somewhat excellent but not good enough, what do you Love?

Matthew 22:37
And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.

Mark 12:31
The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”


please pray for me to be able to love my neighbor as myself, Jesus laid down his life for me and everyone, that is true love, I would like to say I could do that, but I am not really sure I could you,,,could you??

 

[hopefulson]

This is really to answer Sue D. You posted your last post while I was typing this Dave so hear is her answer.

What is the real substance of right and wrong? Is it a matter of how you behave? Is that good enough? Your heart tells you immediately there is no life in that formula. Rather than get into a million different dissections of the concept I will just make a statement to explore and expand on. A thing is wrong when it's nature offends Love itself. If you do not possess Love you cannot possess God's point of view. God is Love. To this reality I subordinate myself and my view points. When your emphasis is the behavior alone the foundation and the reason that I just described disappears and your position becomes desolate. I am not saying that is where Dave M is standing I am only asking him to look there and inside himself to explore that aspect of the circumstance we are discussing. It is not an accusation. It is a question, an open door for heart and mind. The danger presents itself when you insist on slamming the door shut. Then you are imprisoned by where you have relegated Love. Grace has been abandoned.

But I would consider it a duty and an honor to pray for you Dave. Let me just add that it is this very issue that so condemned me in conscience that made every moment in front of the mirror hypocrisy because I knew what the word of God said and as you have stated The Word is The Law. So that being said how do you get out of this kind of trap? Here is what happened to me after years and years of crucifying myself relentlessly I broke down and simply and sincerely asked God to forgive me believing His Word. Something we are both willing to live and die by. My prayers are with you and for you.

 

[Sue D.]

@hopefulson -- I hope your very last sentence was a mispeak on your part. "here is what happened to me after years and years of crucifying myself relentlessly. I broke down and simply and sincerely asked God for give me 'believing' His Word.

Did you really intend to say "....asked God to forgive my 'unbelief' in His Word...."

And then your comment of "years and years of crucifying myself relentlessly".

Sorry to say this -- but you sound like a very unhappy and confused person.

Honestly I'm not quite sure What you're trying to say.

 

[hopefulson]

@hopefulson -- I hope your very last sentence was a mispeak on your part. "here is what happened to me after years and years of crucifying myself relentlessly. I broke down and simply and sincerely asked God for give me 'believing' His Word.

Did you really intend to say "....asked God to forgive my 'unbelief' in His Word...."

And then your comment of "years and years of crucifying myself relentlessly".

Sorry to say this -- but you sound like a very unhappy and confused person.

Honestly I'm not quite sure What you're trying to say.

I believe I meant it as written though it may be phrased awkwardly. A person can try to do everything right and that with all their might with grief and tears but it is worthless.

(Now the act of BELIEVING,) contained in that word is where the awkwardness appears to be, so let me expound on the priceless aspect of that state and the depth of that word. You cannot with perfect sincerity believe anything without dropping all of the contrary things in opposition to it. Reference James and double mindedness. Belief contains the magic of reformation and redemption.

But I am detecting that you have an image of me that the trials and grief I describe concerning myself doesn't fit or you have a life of comfortable experience that sweetly colors your understanding of a Christian walk. Now I am not being defensive or accusatory. You very sweetly attested to personal experiences should be considered and respected when it came to peoples circumstances that exposed their hearts and needs to homosexuality have you lost that respect?

Perhaps you were not born in sin like me. There is nothing sad about it or wrong with the view looking back over it. It is actually pretty simple and the triumph over it is truly a crown. Here is the consistent charge how much of you are you willing to hold on to and how much are you willing to give up. I have no problem with any of this because I need Him within me to be at all. Jesus has strong words for His disciples in many places about the position of our hearts. Unless the seed dies there is no Life and no fruit to follow and without that belief and sincerity deep Joy escapes us. Here is a powerful question do you want to explore the possibility of extreme freedom and that freedom FULLY blessed and established by God Himself? Do you believe in such a thing? Now this statement is cruel, no homosexual can have this freedom but the way out is BELIEF not restraint. This is true for ALL not just those in homosexuality His Blood really is Freedom for EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES if that were not true I cannot live. ( I come that they may have Life and that more abundantly. ) the words of Christ. Anyway I pray That His Perfect Grace and Power surround you today and you walk in His freedom and experience His Joy.

 

[Sue D.]

Your explanation does make more sense.

Every one is born with the Propensity For sin. And Biblical morality / ethics are to be our guideline.

I'm 70 and have experienced a Lot. Other people in my age bracket have experienced much Worse and lots much Better. Comparatively speaking -- I've lived a fairly sheltered life. And I will also share that I'm presently learning how to regroup after having been widowed after 46 yrs of marriage. It's been a year ago this last Oct. It was very sudden, unexpected. there's a friendship that has been gradually developing that has been helping me in the regrouping process.

We do tend to forget that Jesus Christ is to be our 'role model' not Society. But we Do live In Society -- so it definitely Does influence us. And we Do live in a society that says "if it feels good , do it" , but Society doesn't really care how 'we' react to the negative affects Of '"having done It"

And, yes, 'we' do need to be sensitive to people's feelings and personal set of circumstances. There are those who don't care what God's Word says and other Do care. The Holy Spirit works in the heart.

I've heard of homosexuals who have contracted AIDS and know they're dying and figure that everyone is going to die of something at sometime -- so it doesn't bother them. They've lived their lives going from one partner to another and are supposedly content and don't want to hear about any 'religious cure'. They die and find themselves in an even Worse 'mess' Forever.

So -- You're saying that total Belief is the way out -- and not to focus on boundaries. Not worry about restraining their attractions -- But the total Belief in God and in His Power is the 'cure'. Well -- for some it Does work that way. But maybe for Some, their inner struggle brings them closer to God -- and maybe That is partly what you're saying.

Some interesting thoughts.

 

[B-A-C]

Loving homosexuals, and approving of what they do are two different things. When my kids were teenagers, I loved them, but I didn't always approved of what they did.

Also the love of God is NOT the salvation of God. God loves sinners... but that doesn't mean they are saved.

Rom 5:8; But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

[Sue D.]

Good point. A homosexual Is a person and Some of them Do identify As such on purpose. And others are Trying to be normal , ordinary People who simply want to be appreciated As a real person but find themselves attracted To people of the same sex rather than the Opposite sex.

And , yes, very true -- the love of God is Not salvation. A person Does need to accept God's gift Of salvation.

 

[hopefulson]

I've heard of homosexuals who have contracted AIDS and know they're dying and figure that everyone is going to die of something at sometime -- so it doesn't bother them. They've lived their lives going from one partner to another and are supposedly content and don't want to hear about any 'religious cure'. They die and find themselves in an even Worse 'mess' Forever.

There is so much to this. First let me say it may not bother them but it more than bothers and angers me. The rage is that they allowed The Life to be seduced out of them. It is not them that I am angry with in fact there is nothing but deep grief and that grief does not care whether they accept their fate or not. There is a dark agent of compromise that uses the smearing of dirt in our faces, it is at work in every soul to bring acceptance of defeat and the hopeless condition the world has established under his rule. That every person should triumph over it is the work of The Cross. The power that raised Jesus from the dead cannot be overcome and overwhelms every and ALL the dirt of the grave that is so willingly accepted when all that is visible is chains. He has overcome the world.

 

[B-A-C]

The power that raised Jesus from the dead cannot be overcome and overwhelms every and ALL the dirt of the grave that is so willingly accepted when all that is visible is chains. He has overcome the world.

Ahhh yes, but have you?

Heb 4:3; For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said, "AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST," although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4; For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: "AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS";
Heb 4:5; and again in this passage, "THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Heb 4:6; Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,


Rev 2:7; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'
Rev 2:11; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.'
Rev 2:17; 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, to him I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and a new name written on the stone which no one knows but he who receives it.'
Rev 2:26; 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
Rev 3:5; 'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Rev 3:12; 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Rev 3:21; 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Rev 21:7; "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

 

[hopefulson]

I think your trying to convey something but I'm not sure what exactly. The term overcomes means what to you exactly? My understanding is God ( Jesus Christ is speaking and through His Spirit is conveying His will and all are expected to follow at all and any cost. Is this what you are trying to convey?

 

[LordKnows]

As it is written:
1 John 3:
6 Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.

7 Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous.

8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil.

9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God.

10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

God's word is not confusing

 

[Sue D.]

So you're saying with This passage that sinless perfection is possible?

Living a life-style Of sinning is one thing. But a believer will inevitably sin because we still are human with the propensity For sinning.

 

[LordKnows]

So you're saying with This passage that sinless perfection is possible?

Living a life-style Of sinning is one thing. But a believer will inevitably sin because we still are human with the propensity For sinning.

I'M not saying anything.

I copied & pasted scripture from the book of 1 John.

Tell God that "your human with the propensity For sinning" & let us know what he says.

 

[Sue D.]

He's already aware of that. That's what happened when Adam and Eve ate that fruit. Everyone inherited a propensity for sin. The tendency For sin. Just observe little children -- they have to be Taught to play nicely. It does not come Naturally.
A person might look like they're living a pretty good , sin-free life -- until ya get into their mind and see how they didn't appreciate the pastor preaching so long. Or their inner reaction to the person driving So Slow in front of them. Those inner reactions are still sin. And pridefulness is also a sin. So.

 

[LordKnows]

God sees our hearts

 

[hopefulson]

That this is sin there is no question. I leave the judgement to God however and I trust only in His Spirit to keep me from sin's grip and effects. The larger question that is more under our control and responsibility is how we treat homosexuals themselves. We are responsible for this conduct.

I am compelled by good sense to follow Jesus's example, He did not condemn, He did not seek out for discrimination or ridicule, He did not subject to shame and this was not because none were known by Him for He Knows ALL Hearts it is because such expressions were not found in His Spirit. So when Christians display sentiments like the above in who's spirit are they abiding since it could not be Jesus's Spirit?

 

[LordKnows]

I leave the judgement to God however and I trust only in His Spirit to keep me from sin's grip and effects.

1 Corinthians 5:
9 When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols. You would have to leave this world to avoid people like that. 11 I meant that you are not to associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is abusive, or is a drunkard, or cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people.

12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

This scripture makes it crystal clear.


EDIT ~ God DID condemn, he flooded the earth & drown EVERYONE & EVERYTHING because they were doing whatever they wanted except for Noah, his wife, sons & their wives & the animals.

PLEASE don't deceive yourselves by thinking God's love means he plays nice & overlooks the sins society accepts.
If I gave up my only begotten son for the sins of others trust & believe there would be firm laws attached to it.


God IS GOOD ALL THE TIME!!!