Is purgatory a myth and where did it come from?

[KingJ]

I read a story a bunch of years back on how the Romanist Church dug up some guy, maybe it was the formentioned Formosa guy, charging him and trying him for some heinous crime, then, if I remember right...they condemned him to death? Really?! Did they raise him from the dead so they could execute him? I laughed till tears ran. I was a Romanist at the time too.

We can make blanket assumptions with the Catholic church a lot more then with Protestants, but there are exemptions. Case in point.

 

[Garee]

I read a story a bunch of years back on how the Romanist Church dug up some guy, maybe it was the formentioned Formosa guy, charging him and trying him for some heinous crime, then, if I remember right...they condemned him to death? Really?! Did they raise him from the dead so they could execute him? I laughed till tears ran. I was a Romanist at the time too.

I laughed at first .But its only funny when two are laughing . . they are not. But are dead serious

Its the kind of doctrine that desires to have breath of spirit life even after one dies . The Popes stay of execuiton was extemded as a extended sign to wonder after. . never coming to the end of faith salavtion of one soul .It is like today it was pased around the circuit so other might venerate dead things adding to wonderments

Purgatory clearly does dispite to the fulness of Christ's grace . Wage is paid in full not a unknown remnant .

 

[Garee]

The Seventh Day Adventists teach the full annihilationism message. So if you disagree with them, you should see why. If you do, you are a ''lone ranger'' with your belief. Which is fine, perhaps evidence that you partially agree with their view of it. It is doubt in the right direction.

The Seventh Day Adventists have a different use for the word rest than I do.They change the meaning and make it time senitive.

Seventh day and rest are not synonyms.

I agree with annihilation. Just not sure how they come to their conclusion of annihilationism?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The message of Purgatory does not teach Jesus need offer Himself over and over again. That ''once'' has not yet been taken up by those in Purgatory.

Purgatory is seen as 'extra' time for those not completely sold out to wickedness.

Did you see vs 27 highlighted there?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

We can make blanket assumptions with the Catholic church a lot more then with Protestants, but there are exemptions. Case in point.

What are you saying here?

 

[KingJ]

Did you see vs 27 highlighted there?

27 Just as human beings have to die once, but after this comes judgment,

Playing devil's advocate with you on that verse is easy.

I can argue that 1. Nobody has yet been judged. 2. There has always been a waiting place with Hades. 3. Purgatory takes place after you die 'once'.

The second phrase of that verse can be read as ''when you get married, you will have kids''. That you may go through a session of hardships prior to the kids is a separate matter.

When one considers hell and heaven are eternal, extra time for clarification of one's heart intent makes perfect sense. Many appear to not get equal and fair opportunity on earth. As God is just and impartial, many could even argue that something like Purgatory be a necessity.

I don't personally believe in it, but it is certainly a plausible belief the more you think about it.

 

[KingJ]

What are you saying here?

Just saying we shouldn't turn your experience into a blanket accusation of the RCC.

 

[rvmb]

Do the 66 books of The Bible mention purgatory or similar ?

 

[KingJ]

Do the 66 books of The Bible mention purgatory or similar ?

There are many scriptures that can be used to support the idea. But the most direct support is found in the Maccabees of the Catholic bible.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Just saying we shouldn't turn your experience into a blanket accusation of the RCC.

Oh Ok...I'm not accusing the RCC of anything...I'm simply stating a fact...They invented purgatory so they could take more of the peoples money and resources. The Romanist people in general are duped...tricked by an evil religion....I've done studies into this religion that I was raised in. It's evil. What started me looking at the RCC is a book called "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" You can actually find it online...in PDF although its been a part of my library for the last forty five years....It was written by a Romanist priest....That was the start...You may want to read it too?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Oh Ok...I'm not accusing the RCC of anything...I'm simply stating a fact...They invented purgatory so they could take more of the peoples money and resources. The Romanist people in general are duped...tricked by an evil religion....I've done studies into this religion that I was raised in. It's evil. What started me looking at the RCC is a book called "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" You can actually find it online...in PDF although its been a part of my library for the last forty five years....It was written by a Romanist priest....That was the start...You may want to read it too?

This is an excerpt from that book His own experience with purgatory and the RCC....The writing style is of course a bit dryer than the modern style.....

My poor mother passed through those heartrending trials. I heard her sobs during the long hours of the day, and
also during the longer hours of the night. Many times I have seen her fall upon her knees to implore God to be
merciful to her and to her three unhappy orphans. I could do nothing then to comfort her, but love her, pray and
weep with her!
Only a few days had elapsed after the burial of my father when I saw Mr. Courtois, the parish priest, coming to
our house (he who had tried to take away our Bible from us). He had the reputation of being rich, and as we were
poor and unhappy since my father's death, my first thought was that he had come to comfort and to help us. I
could see that my mother had the same hopes. She welcomed him as an angel from heaven. The least gleam of
hope is so sweet to one who is unhappy!
From his very first words, however, I could see that our hopes were not to be realized. He tried to be
sympathetic, and even said something about the confidence that we should have in God, especially in times of
trial; but his words were cold and dry.
Turning to me, he said:
"Do you continue to read the Bible, my little boy?"
"Yes, sir," answered I, with a voice trembling with anxiety, for I feared that he would make another effort to take
away that treasure, and I had no longer a father to defend it.
Then, addressing my mother, he said:
"Madam, I told you that it was not right for you or your child to read that book."
My mother cast down her eyes, and answered only by the tears which ran down her cheeks.
That question was followed by a long silence, and the priest then continued:
"Madam, there is something due for the prayers which have been sung, and the services which you requested to
be offered for the repose of your husband's soul. I will be very much obliged to you if you pay me that little
debt."
"Mr. Courtis," answered my mother, "my husband left me nothing but debts. I have only the work of my own
hands to procure a living for my three children, the eldest of whom is before you. For these little orphans' sake, if
not for mine, do not take from us the little that is left."
"But, madam, you do not reflect. Your husband died suddenly and without any preparation; he is therefore in the
flames of purgatory. If you want him to be delivered, you must necessarily unite your personal sacrifices to the
prayers of the Church and the masses which we offer."
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome
27
"As I said, my husband has left me absolutely without means, and it is impossible for me to give you any
money," replied my mother.
"But, madam, your husband was for a long time the only notary of Mal Bay. He surely must have made much
money. I can scarcely think that he has left you without any means to help him now that his desolation and
sufferings are far greater than yours."
"My husband did indeed coin much money, but he spent still more. Thanks to God, we have not been in want
while he lived. But lately he got this house built, and what is still due on it makes me fear that I will lose it. He
also bought a piece of land not long ago, only half of which is paid and I will, therefore, probably not be able to
keep it. Hence I may soon, with my poor orphans, be deprived of everything that is left us. In the meantime I
hope, sir, that you are not a man to take away from us our last piece of bread."
"But, madam, the masses offered for the rest of your husband's soul must be paid for," answered the priest.
My mother covered her face with her handkerchief and wept.
As for me, I did not mingle my tears with hers this time. My feelings were not those of grief, but of anger and
unspeakable horror. My eyes were fixed on the face of that man who tortured my mother's heart. I looked with
tearless eyes upon the man who added to my mother's anguish, and made her weep more bitterly than ever. My
hands were clenched, as if ready to strike. All my muscles trembled; my teeth chattered as if from intense cold.
My greatest sorrow was my weakness in the presence of that big man, and my not being able to send him away
from our house, and driving him far away from my mother.
I felt inclined to say to him: "Are you not ashamed, you who are so rich, to come to take away the last piece of
bread from our mouths?" But my physical and moral strength were not sufficient to accomplish the task before
me, and I was filled with regret and disappointment.
After a long silence, my mother raised her eyes, reddened with tears, towards the priest and said:
"Sir, you see that cow in the meadow, not far from our house? Her milk and the butter made from it form the
principal part of my children's food. I hope you will not take her away from us. If, however, such a sacrifice
must be made to deliver my poor husband's soul from purgatory, take her as payment of the masses to be offered
to extinguish those devouring flames."
The priest instantly arose, saying, "Very well, madam," and went out.
Our eyes anxiously followed him; but instead of walking towards the little gate which was in front of the house,
he directed his steps towards the meadow, and drove the cow before him in the direction of his home.
At that sight I screamed with despair: "Oh, my mother! he is taking our cow away! What will become of us?"
Lord Nairn had given us that splendid cow when it was three months old. Her mother had been brought from
Scotland, and belonged to one of the best breeds of that country. I fed her with my own hands, and had often
shared my bread with her. I loved her as a child always loves an animal which he has brought up himself. She
seemed to understand and love me also. From whatever distance she could see me, she would run to me to
receive my caresses, and whatever else I might have to give her. My mother herself milked her; and her rich milk
was such delicious and substantial food for us.
My mother also cried out with grief as she saw the priest taking away the only means heaven had left her to feed
her children.
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome
28
Throwing myself into her arms, I asked her: "Why have you given away our cow? What will become of us? We
shall surely die of hunger?"
"Dear child," she answered. "I did not think the priest would be so cruel as to take away the last resource which
God had left us. Ah! if I had believed him to be so unmerciful I would never have spoken to him as I did. As you
say, my dear child, what will become of us? But have you not often read to me in your Bible that God is the
Father of the widow and the orphan? We shall pray to that God who is willing to be your father and mine: He
will listen to us, and see our tears. Let us kneel down and ask Him to be merciful to us, and to give us back the
support which the priest deprived us."

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

This is an excerpt from that book His own experience with purgatory and the RCC....The writing style is of course a bit dryer than the modern style.....

My poor mother passed through those heartrending trials. I heard her sobs during the long hours of the day, and
also during the longer hours of the night. Many times I have seen her fall upon her knees to implore God to be
merciful to her and to her three unhappy orphans. I could do nothing then to comfort her, but love her, pray and
weep with her!
Only a few days had elapsed after the burial of my father when I saw Mr. Courtois, the parish priest, coming to
our house (he who had tried to take away our Bible from us). He had the reputation of being rich, and as we were
poor and unhappy since my father's death, my first thought was that he had come to comfort and to help us. I
could see that my mother had the same hopes. She welcomed him as an angel from heaven. The least gleam of
hope is so sweet to one who is unhappy!
From his very first words, however, I could see that our hopes were not to be realized. He tried to be
sympathetic, and even said something about the confidence that we should have in God, especially in times of
trial; but his words were cold and dry.
Turning to me, he said:
"Do you continue to read the Bible, my little boy?"
"Yes, sir," answered I, with a voice trembling with anxiety, for I feared that he would make another effort to take
away that treasure, and I had no longer a father to defend it.
Then, addressing my mother, he said:
"Madam, I told you that it was not right for you or your child to read that book."
My mother cast down her eyes, and answered only by the tears which ran down her cheeks.
That question was followed by a long silence, and the priest then continued:
"Madam, there is something due for the prayers which have been sung, and the services which you requested to
be offered for the repose of your husband's soul. I will be very much obliged to you if you pay me that little
debt."
"Mr. Courtis," answered my mother, "my husband left me nothing but debts. I have only the work of my own
hands to procure a living for my three children, the eldest of whom is before you. For these little orphans' sake, if
not for mine, do not take from us the little that is left."
"But, madam, you do not reflect. Your husband died suddenly and without any preparation; he is therefore in the
flames of purgatory. If you want him to be delivered, you must necessarily unite your personal sacrifices to the
prayers of the Church and the masses which we offer."
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome
27
"As I said, my husband has left me absolutely without means, and it is impossible for me to give you any
money," replied my mother.
"But, madam, your husband was for a long time the only notary of Mal Bay. He surely must have made much
money. I can scarcely think that he has left you without any means to help him now that his desolation and
sufferings are far greater than yours."
"My husband did indeed coin much money, but he spent still more. Thanks to God, we have not been in want
while he lived. But lately he got this house built, and what is still due on it makes me fear that I will lose it. He
also bought a piece of land not long ago, only half of which is paid and I will, therefore, probably not be able to
keep it. Hence I may soon, with my poor orphans, be deprived of everything that is left us. In the meantime I
hope, sir, that you are not a man to take away from us our last piece of bread."
"But, madam, the masses offered for the rest of your husband's soul must be paid for," answered the priest.
My mother covered her face with her handkerchief and wept.
As for me, I did not mingle my tears with hers this time. My feelings were not those of grief, but of anger and
unspeakable horror. My eyes were fixed on the face of that man who tortured my mother's heart. I looked with
tearless eyes upon the man who added to my mother's anguish, and made her weep more bitterly than ever. My
hands were clenched, as if ready to strike. All my muscles trembled; my teeth chattered as if from intense cold.
My greatest sorrow was my weakness in the presence of that big man, and my not being able to send him away
from our house, and driving him far away from my mother.
I felt inclined to say to him: "Are you not ashamed, you who are so rich, to come to take away the last piece of
bread from our mouths?" But my physical and moral strength were not sufficient to accomplish the task before
me, and I was filled with regret and disappointment.
After a long silence, my mother raised her eyes, reddened with tears, towards the priest and said:
"Sir, you see that cow in the meadow, not far from our house? Her milk and the butter made from it form the
principal part of my children's food. I hope you will not take her away from us. If, however, such a sacrifice
must be made to deliver my poor husband's soul from purgatory, take her as payment of the masses to be offered
to extinguish those devouring flames."
The priest instantly arose, saying, "Very well, madam," and went out.
Our eyes anxiously followed him; but instead of walking towards the little gate which was in front of the house,
he directed his steps towards the meadow, and drove the cow before him in the direction of his home.
At that sight I screamed with despair: "Oh, my mother! he is taking our cow away! What will become of us?"
Lord Nairn had given us that splendid cow when it was three months old. Her mother had been brought from
Scotland, and belonged to one of the best breeds of that country. I fed her with my own hands, and had often
shared my bread with her. I loved her as a child always loves an animal which he has brought up himself. She
seemed to understand and love me also. From whatever distance she could see me, she would run to me to
receive my caresses, and whatever else I might have to give her. My mother herself milked her; and her rich milk
was such delicious and substantial food for us.
My mother also cried out with grief as she saw the priest taking away the only means heaven had left her to feed
her children.
Fifty Years in the Church of Rome
28
Throwing myself into her arms, I asked her: "Why have you given away our cow? What will become of us? We
shall surely die of hunger?"
"Dear child," she answered. "I did not think the priest would be so cruel as to take away the last resource which
God had left us. Ah! if I had believed him to be so unmerciful I would never have spoken to him as I did. As you
say, my dear child, what will become of us? But have you not often read to me in your Bible that God is the
Father of the widow and the orphan? We shall pray to that God who is willing to be your father and mine: He
will listen to us, and see our tears. Let us kneel down and ask Him to be merciful to us, and to give us back the
support which the priest deprived us."

Another excerpt.....
For instance, our superiors had convinced us that scapulars, medals, holy water, ect., would be of great service to
us in battling with the most dangerous temptations, as well as in avoiding the most common dangers of life.
Consequently, we all had scapulars and medals, which we kept with the greatest respect, and even kissed
morning and evening with affection, as if they were powerful instruments of the mercy of God to us. How great,
then, was our confusion and disappointment when we discovered in the Greek and Latin historians that those
scapulars and medals and statuettes were nothing but a remnant of Paganism, and that the worshipers of Jupiter,
Minerva, Diana and Venus believed themselves also free, as we did, from all calamity when they carried them in
honour of these divinities! The further we advanced in the study of Pagan antiquity, the more we were forced to
believe that our religion, instead of being born at the foot of Calvary, was only a pale and awkward imitation of
Paganism. The modern Pontifex Maximus (the Pope of Rome), who, as we were assured, was the successor of
St. Peter, the Vicar of Jesus Christ, resembled the "Pontifex Maximus" of the great republic and empire of Rome
as much as two drops of water resemble each other. Had not our Pope preserved not only the name, but also the
attributes, the pageantry, the pride, and even the garb of that high pagan priest? Was not the worship of the saints
absolutely the same as the worship of the demigods of olden time? Was not our purgatory minutely described by
Virgil? Were not our prayers to the Virgin and to the saints repeated, almost in the same words, by the
worshipers who repeated them every day before the images which adorned our churches? Was not our holy
water in use among the idolaters, and for the same purpose for which it was used among us?

These two excerpts show the evils of this antiGod religion....The people under this religion are, for the most part, good honest people who are blinded by this pagan religion....Do I hate the religion? Big time!!! Do I hate the people who are ensnared in it? Not a bit...I would see them all come out from under it....And ...There are countless people in the Romanist church that are born again, spirit filled and who will spend eternity with God.....So am I accusing the Romanist people? NO...Am I accusing the Romanist religion? Big time!

These two excerpts are from one single book.....There are lots of others.

 

[rvmb]

There are many scriptures that can be used to support the idea. But the most direct support is found in the Maccabees of the Catholic bible.

Can you point me to the passage/s in the non-apocrypha Bible (eg NASB, NIV, NET, KJV) that supports purgatory... Thank you

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Can you point me to the passage/s in the non-apocrypha Bible (eg NASB, NIV, NET, KJV) that supports purgatory... Thank you

There are none.

 

[rvmb]

There are none.

Yes, that's the conclusion I also believe. Like JW have written their own Bible to build their empire I expect that RC's have added books to The Bible to promote their version of Christianity otherwise how could any organization afford the vatican ?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Yes, that's the conclusion I also believe. Like JW have written their own Bible to build their empire I expect that RC's have added books to The Bible to promote their version of Christianity otherwise how could any organization afford the vatican ?

You can stand against the religion...but always remember the people....they are not the bad guys here. Right? The religion may be pagan but the people are seeking God...Like us. God be merciful to those who made that religion

 

[rvmb]

You can stand against the religion...but always remember the people....they are not the bad guys here. Right? The religion may be pagan but the people are seeking God...Like us. God be merciful to those who made that religion

Will The LORD be merciful to those who believe they can earn/deserve entry into Heaven by their works ?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Will The LORD be merciful to those who believe they can earn/deserve entry into Heaven by their works ?

I'm not the judge...thankfully

 

[KingJ]

Can you point me to the passage/s in the non-apocrypha Bible (eg NASB, NIV, NET, KJV) that supports purgatory... Thank you

No.

I do not want to encourage belief in this. I do not support it. But if you googled it you would find they actually have taken many suggestive scriptures.

My only two cents on this topic is that there are worse constructs of scripture. The first guy here compared a belief in Purgatory to satanism.

Purgatory may be false but it is a completely harmless belief. Unless of course you have incidents like the one Admon spoke of.

 

[KingJ]

Yes, that's the conclusion I also believe. Like JW have written their own Bible to build their empire I expect that RC's have added books to The Bible to promote their version of Christianity otherwise how could any organization afford the vatican ?

What JW's have done cannot be compared to what the RCC has done.

JW's edited the bible. The RCC collated 73 books into a bible. The Protestants took 7 of those books out.

The RCC never included Judas's account. They debated, prayed, had a council judging the inclusions and applied good conscious to their selections.

The only issue I have with the RCC is their amendment of one of the ten commandments speaking to ''no graven images''.