Is refusal to trust again unforgiveness?

[hopefulson]

I felt but perhaps I missed something, that the original question was more self examining than a judging justice issue. That an offense was acknowledged and the injury was implied as actual and real in the original question.

The issue appeared to be trust and forgiveness, is trust necessary for forgiveness or what roll does it play? My point would be trust is irrelevant when it comes to forgiveness it is not a linked thing, but forgiveness IS a MUST that directly from The Red Letters. The heart that contains the Love of God always wants to give, always wants to bless and forgive and mourns when anything prevents that heart from doing so and there are many things many pits in the course of life for us to fall into but most all those traps revolve around the places within us not yet surrendered to God.

 

[Enxu]

I felt but perhaps I missed something, that the original question was more self examining than a judging justice issue. That an offense was acknowledged and the injury was implied as actual and real in the original question.

The issue appeared to be trust and forgiveness, is trust necessary for forgiveness or what roll does it play? My point would be trust is irrelevant when it comes to forgiveness it is not a linked thing, but forgiveness IS a MUST that directly from The Red Letters. The heart that contains the Love of God always wants to give, always wants to bless and forgive and mourns when anything prevents that heart from doing so and there are many things many pits in the course of life for us to fall into but most all those traps revolve around the places within us not yet surrendered to God.

The topic was sidetracked to whether evil should be punished or not. The Gospel makes it clear that while Christians are not to take vengeance into their own hands, there IS a consequence for people doing evil and God Himself will punish evil and take vengeance against evildoers as justice.

There is a pernicious doctrine in Christendom that tells people that sinners should get away scot free for causing harm to others just by saying sorry and the victims are demanded to forgive and forget as though nothing has happened. This is DENYING and NULLIFYING the justice of God and Jesus criticised the Pharisees as hypocrites for neglecting justice 2000 years ago. How dare these hypocrites say they won’t have any consequences for ruining someone else’s lives when even King David had to lose a child and deal with betrayal within his own family for committing murder and adultery. He suffered these consequences even after he repented. How dare these hypocrites say they are to get away scot free for doing evil when King David didn’t get away scot free at all despite being highly esteemed as a man of God.

Forgiveness can only occur when there is true repentance from the offending party. True repentance means having a heart willing to accept repercussions or losses for doing wrong and also completely changing previous actions. King David had such a heart and he accepted even the loss of his child. So did the brothers of Joseph who first betrayed him and sold him into Egypt. Go and read the Bible yourself. Even Joseph did not forgive immediately when he first saw his brothers come to buy food. Instead, he tested his brothers with trials to see if they will betray their youngest brother Benjamin again like they betrayed him. Their brothers truly changed and that is when forgiveness was extended. If there is no true repentance on the part of the offender, the only thing the victim can do is to stay away from the offender, forgiveness in this scenario only INVITES more abuse. As a Christian, we don’t repay evil for evil but don’t listen to the garbage and filthy lies those hypocrites tell you that you should accept them back into your life again in the name of forgiveness so they can continue abusing you. God will punish these hypocrites for misusing forgiveness as a way to excuse and continue their evil ways.

 

[hopefulson]

The topic was sidetracked to whether evil should be punished or not. The Gospel makes it clear that while Christians are not to take vengeance into their own hands, there IS a consequence for people doing evil and God Himself will punish evil and take vengeance against evildoers as justice.

There is a pernicious doctrine in Christendom that tells people that sinners should get away scot free for causing harm to others just by saying sorry and the victims are demanded to forgive and forget as though nothing has happened. This is DENYING and NULLIFYING the justice of God and Jesus criticised the Pharisees as hypocrites for neglecting justice 2000 years ago. How dare these hypocrites say they won’t have any consequences for ruining someone else’s lives when even King David had to lose a child and deal with betrayal within his own family for committing murder and adultery. He suffered these consequences even after he repented. How dare these hypocrites say they are to get away scot free for doing evil when King David didn’t get away scot free at all despite being highly esteemed as a man of God.

Forgiveness can only occur when there is true repentance from the offending party. True repentance means having a heart willing to accept repercussions or losses for doing wrong and also completely changing previous actions. King David had such a heart and he accepted even the loss of his child. So did the brothers of Joseph who first betrayed him and sold him into Egypt. Go and read the Bible yourself. Even Joseph did not forgive immediately when he first saw his brothers come to buy food. Instead, he tested his brothers with trials to see if they will betray their youngest brother Benjamin again like they betrayed him. Their brothers truly changed and that is when forgiveness was extended. If there is no true repentance on the part of the offender, the only thing the victim can do is to stay away from the offender, forgiveness in this scenario only INVITES more abuse. As a Christian, we don’t repay evil for evil but don’t listen to the garbage and filthy lies those hypocrites tell you that you should accept them back into your life again in the name of forgiveness so they can continue abusing you. God will punish these hypocrites for misusing forgiveness as a way to excuse and continue their evil ways.

I can only state this, you are wrong in your approach and have short changed The Spirit of God in your position. Not Justice nor any aspect of vindication is required at all for forgiveness. This is before Jesus Christ a serious matter again consult The Red Letters. I don't know what happened that your heart is referencing within you, but your heart and spirit is worth much more than any weighted consideration of Justice or repayment of any wrong.

So let me add even Justice can be dispensed without revenge in the heart even in intimate matters but your heart must be and must remain clean and principled. You must hold justice above you and above the offender so that your heart is in clean service. Let me share a view I know you will not agree with. Justice is a sad and painful thing it's execution though often an absolute necessity. In God's eyes you are better off being an offender than being offended in your heart and bitter because of it. God Bless and keep you Enxu.

 

[Enxu]

I can only state this, you are wrong in your approach and have short changed The Spirit of God in your position. Not Justice nor any aspect of vindication is required at all for forgiveness. This is before Jesus Christ a serious matter again consult The Red Letters. I don't know what happened that your heart is referencing within you, but your heart and spirit is worth much more than any weighted consideration of Justice or repayment of any wrong.

So let me add even Justice can be dispensed without revenge in the heart even in intimate matters but your heart must be and must remain clean and principled. You must hold justice above you and above the offender so that your heart is in clean service. Let me share a view I know you will not agree with. Justice is a sad and painful thing it's execution though often an absolute necessity. In God's eyes you are better off being an offender than being offended in your heart and bitter because of it. God Bless and keep you Enxu.

If asking for justice is wrong in your view, what then do you conclude about the following verse?

Revelation 6:10 They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?”

Are they bitter and have they shortchanged God’s spirit for asking payback on others? Revelations said they were all given white robes and asked to wait a while longer for payback to happen. So unfortunately Scriptures don’t agree with your stance of blind forgiveness at all.

 

[Enxu]

I can only state this, you are wrong in your approach and have short changed The Spirit of God in your position. Not Justice nor any aspect of vindication is required at all for forgiveness. This is before Jesus Christ a serious matter again consult The Red Letters. I don't know what happened that your heart is referencing within you, but your heart and spirit is worth much more than any weighted consideration of Justice or repayment of any wrong.

So let me add even Justice can be dispensed without revenge in the heart even in intimate matters but your heart must be and must remain clean and principled. You must hold justice above you and above the offender so that your heart is in clean service. Let me share a view I know you will not agree with. Justice is a sad and painful thing it's execution though often an absolute necessity. In God's eyes you are better off being an offender than being offended in your heart and bitter because of it. God Bless and keep you Enxu.

You are inaccurate to state that forgiveness precludes justice. True biblical forgiveness don’t exclude justice at all and it’s shown clearly in the Scriptures but many are blind and can’t see it. If justice is to be precluded for forgiveness no one would be judged for their sins, not even those who refuse to repent. Those who neglect justice are called out as hypocrites by Jesus two thousand years ago. I don’t think Jesus will change His position on this.

Just because I ask for justice does not mean I will take vengeance into my own hands. I am in the same mindset as those souls in Revelation 6:10.

 

[hopefulson]

If asking for justice is wrong in your view, what then do you conclude about the following verse?

Revelation 6:10 They shouted to the Lord and said, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you judge the people who belong to this world and avenge our blood for what they have done to us?”

Are they bitter and have they shortchanged God’s spirit for asking payback on others? Revelations said they were all given white robes and asked to wait a while longer for payback to happen. So unfortunately Scriptures don’t agree with your stance of blind forgiveness at all.

You are mistaken to believe that I ever intimated that asking for Justice is wrong. If I am not mistaken I used the word necessary in reference to Justice. There is no issue here of Justice unless YOU insert it. The issue is forgiveness. The issue is your HEART and SPIRIT. It is completely separate and distinct from Justice which very cleanly and clearly must be established in and by principal. When you read the charge within The Red Letters there is no JUST position for argument. Who do you think is speaking that you can subject The Author Who Is Reason and Wisdom and Life itself to human perception. There is not room for your opinion or mine. Our position is to bow to His Words and seek out the part of our heart that produces argument and quietly and certainly repent of it. Justice is not lost. It demanded The Cross in order for us to Live and Jesus acknowledged its worth along with yours and mine with His Blood yet He clearly states that turning away from forgiveness is not an option. Vengeance very rightly belongs to God Alone and our hearts are to belong to Him.

 

[Enxu]

You are mistaken to believe that I ever intimated that asking for Justice is wrong. If I am not mistaken I used the word necessary in reference to Justice. There is no issue here of Justice unless YOU insert it.

I’m inserting justice by asking for justice but the souls in Revelation 6:10 are not inserting justice by asking for justice? That makes no sense and is unfairly biased against me.

The issue is forgiveness. The issue is your HEART and SPIRIT.

I thought I made it clear that I am against misuse of forgiveness, not forgiveness itself? So what’s the contention? And do you know my heart and spirit on forgiveness more than God?

It is completely separate and distinct from Justice which very cleanly and clearly must be established in and by principal. When you read the charge within The Red Letters there is no JUST position for argument. Who do you think is speaking that you can subject The Author Who Is Reason and Wisdom and Life itself to human perception. There is not room for your opinion or mine. Our position is to bow to His Words and seek out the part of our heart that produces argument and quietly and certainly repent of it. Justice is not lost. It demanded The Cross in order for us to Live and Jesus acknowledged its worth along with yours and mine with His Blood yet He clearly states that turning away from forgiveness is not an option. Vengeance very rightly belongs to God Alone and our hearts are to belong to Him.

You are making false assumptions about me over and over. I never discarded forgiveness like you claim I did. I was talking about misusing it to excuse evil. Also about being argumentative I could say the same thing about you. In just one post you’ve accused me of at least three things that are false. You should repent.